I looked at an RV12 the other day, and according to the data plate and airworthiness certificate it was built by "Vans Aircraft Inc". It had an Experimental LSA certificate. I thought all the factory built planes had to be S-LSA's? Did Van's build any E-LSA's?
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Factory Built ELSA RV12
- Thread starter Rallylancer122
- Start date
Also worth mentioning that it is possible to convert an SLSA to an ELSA fairly easily, it just requires some paperwork with the FAA. Going the other direction, from ELSA to SLSA is technically theoretically possible if the aircraft was originally an SLSA, but in practicality this is all but impossible as it requires the manufacturer to sign off on it being converted back. This requires it to meet the original design without any deviation, as well as the manufacturer putting in the substantial effort required to verify this. This doesn’t happen in reality.
An SLSA is FACTORY built, an ELSA and EAB are kit builds. If you do a factory-assist build it is an ELSA.
Got it, thanks! Makes complete sense now. I did find a bunch of threads on the differences between ELSA vs. SLSA, just didn't find that part.
Unless your goal is to rent the thing out at a flight school, I assume most people prefer the ELSA for maintenance and modification flexibility, correct?
Unless your goal is to rent the thing out at a flight school, I assume most people prefer the ELSA for maintenance and modification flexibility, correct?
A lot of people prefer SLSA because they specifically do not want an airplane that someone has done custom modifications to. It is very restrictive what you can and cannot do to an SLSA, actually far more restrictive than a certified aircraft even. With ELSA, it’s the Wild West and if you are buying, unless you get one hell of a prebuy with someone very familiar, who knows what has been done to it. Now all that said, my SLSA RV-12 actually had been modified in a variety of creative ways that I have since undone, required as I am signing off on condition inspections for it, and the whole point for me of buying an SLSA was unfruitful in resulting in me buying an unmodified airplane.
These weren’t my words but it would be helpful to clarify what part of it is incorrect and what you believe correct is.
S-LSA (21.190) is factory built and may not be modified in any way without written approval from manufacturer.
E-LSA may be kit-built (21.191(i)(2) or converted from S-LSA (21.191(i)(3). Any amount of build assistance may be used, be it factory or anyone else. E-LSA may be modified in any way as long as the mod does not take the aircraft outside LSA parameters. If a mod takes the aircraft outside LSA parameters, the Airworthiness Certificate becomes invalid and there is no path back, because the LSA rules state that the aircraft must have continuously met LSA parameters from original certification.
I hope this clears up some of the confusion.
E-LSA may be kit-built (21.191(i)(2) or converted from S-LSA (21.191(i)(3). Any amount of build assistance may be used, be it factory or anyone else. E-LSA may be modified in any way as long as the mod does not take the aircraft outside LSA parameters. If a mod takes the aircraft outside LSA parameters, the Airworthiness Certificate becomes invalid and there is no path back, because the LSA rules state that the aircraft must have continuously met LSA parameters from original certification.
I hope this clears up some of the confusion.
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This doesn't really clarify things enough. A kit build indeed will generally be either an ELSA or an E-AB. Kits designed for ELSA can be built as E-AB, but not the other way around. Assisted kit builds are still kit builds. What is wrong with what he said?
Nevermind. Deleting my previous comments.
Factory assist is not addressed in the regulations and only muddies the water.
Its possible it was converted from SLSA to ELSA...Which means it was built by Vans.... I did this on a Cessna 162 a few years back.... Should be easy to verify by contacting Vans...
I saw an RV12 a few years ago for sale that had been converted from SLSA it may be the same one....
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All E-LSA list the kit manufacturer as builder. That's the way it's set up.
The SLSA vs ELSA distinction is important for resale because it is not practical (you would need direct support from Vans, which I doubt they have ever done) to covert an ESLA back to an SLSA.
The issue is that flight schools and aircraft rental companies can rent SLSAs to the public. ELSAs, however, cannot be rented to the public. So once it is made an ELSA (e.g., Van's can build and do the ELSA paperwork for you upon delivery, there is a path for you to build and have the DAR certify as an ELSA by initially following SLSA specs), no one who wants to rent it will purchase it from you when you sell the aircraft later.
The issue is that flight schools and aircraft rental companies can rent SLSAs to the public. ELSAs, however, cannot be rented to the public. So once it is made an ELSA (e.g., Van's can build and do the ELSA paperwork for you upon delivery, there is a path for you to build and have the DAR certify as an ELSA by initially following SLSA specs), no one who wants to rent it will purchase it from you when you sell the aircraft later.
