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RV-3, 4 and 6 - The end…

It’s a shame, but not surprising really.
There can’t be many orders for these kits anymore.
I do wonder if anyone is ordering anything other than a 10 or 14 these days.
 
We did a lot to “promote” the RV-3 about a dozen years ago as we were building it, and maybe five or six years after that, I was sitting at Vans and asked if they saw a bump in RV-3 kit sales. There was a laugh,m and they said maybe they’d sold one or two more tail kits…a YEAR since then. Fabulous airplane, but it has a few problems in today’s market….its a single seater, and most people THINK they are goign to want to carry passengers (many folks never put another person in their two-seaters….), it costs almost as much to build a single-seater as a two-seater becasue engines, props, and avionics are a huge portion of the finished cost….and most people don’t want to start their build by constructing a smelter to refine the raw bauxite into aluminum and then roll it into sheets.

The reason Vans doesn’t re-engineer it as a pre-punched modern kit to fix the third problem is becasue of the first two problems…

Without a doubt, the RV-3 is the best-flying airplane of the entire line (and I have flown them all)….but you’ll just have to find a good used one. We just acquired the RV-3.4 project from David Howe, so we’ll get to finish that at least!
 
I saw the post from VANS and called them to see how much is the kit, I may consider it. I did not reach anyone on the phone.
 
Bavafa said:
I saw the post from VANS and called them to see how much is the kit, I may consider it. I did not reach anyone on the phone.
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Last time I saw a kit price for either in late 2023, the 3 was $28,315, the -4 was $32,365… I’m sure that’s probably crept up since though…
 
As mentioned above, not surprising. What is absolutely amazing is how long these models have been in production, even the limited production of the last few years. Compare those numbers to how long many other kit makers existed. It is fair to say the Van’s of today would not exist without those early models.

Thanks for the great airplanes Van’s!

Totally unbiased 6A builder. 😜
 
There is an abandoned 6A project in my hangar that is completed up to about QB stage, guess it will be truly orphaned now with no finish kit available.
 
I would love to build a -3. That was the aircraft I actually wanted when I started my -8. Why didn’t I build a -3? As a pilot, with no background in any sort of engineering, it’s just not in my skill set.
 
Other unique parts are the landing gear legs, the engine mount, many of the various formed aluminum parts, the canopy, tail fairing, wing and tail tips, cowl and so on.

Dave
RV-3B VERY slow build
 
David Paule said:
Other unique parts are the landing gear legs, the engine mount, many of the various formed aluminum parts, the canopy, tail fairing, wing and tail tips, cowl and so on.

Dave
RV-3B VERY slow build
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That is why I assumed this project would have a very challenging path to completion with no finish kit.
 
Wow! A whole two and a half months' notice. I don't even know where to begin. My project has been stalled and there is no way I can come up with the money for a finishing kit in two and a half months. Angry, disappointed, and can't really say what I want to say out loud here.
 
As long as they sell the plans you can always make the parts yourself. That was still an option on the earlier kits. (Believe the -8 on don't have all the needed dimensions on the plans). Does make it a much bigger project.
 
Jonnyb said:
It’s a shame, but not surprising really.
There can’t be many orders for these kits anymore.
I do wonder if anyone is ordering anything other than a 10 or 14 these days.
Click to expand...
Hard to say, I 'thought' the 8 was the most popular kit overall but don't quote me on that. What my own eyes saw last year walking around homebuilt camping was way more 10's than I had ever seen and a lot of 14s as well. Can't blame people.
 
Lots of bits and pieces for a builder to round up if a finish kit isn't available. An experienced builder could probably pull it off if sufficiently motivated, but otherwise....a steep hill to climb. The -6 is not prepunched so a canopy would need to be built-to-fit. I think every -6 canopy was unique!
 
Sam Buchanan said:
Lots of bits and pieces for a builder to round up if a finish kit isn't available. An experienced builder could probably pull it off if sufficiently motivated, but otherwise....a steep hill to climb. The -6 is not prepunched so a canopy would need to be built-to-fit. I think every -6 canopy was unique!
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I think the canopy and canopy frame for the -7 (and 9) are a direct substitute for the ones on the -6. The cabin width is the same, the bubble height is the same, etc.
 
It makes sense. However, everything after these legacy models was either a completely different product, (9, 10, 12, and 15) or a compromise for manufacturing efficiency, customer driven “need”’ for more utility, and to make the build easier, (7 and 8)
The flying qualities of the 3,4, and 6 make for some very loyal owners. They will live on, and yes, you can pry my 6 out of my cold dead hands…..
 
Wow, not the news I was expecting this morning. I agree it is quite a surprise and to give us such short notice isn’t great customer service. I suppose this was bound to happen eventually. This just means I am going to have to figure it all out before October. I still haven’t decided on an engine or propeller. I am leaning towards the IO-360 with a constant speed.

Amusingly I had e-mailed Vans a few months ago enquiring about a finish kit and they indicated at that time it was 18-20 months lead time, no mention of stopping production. Timing isn’t really great for me at the moment but I suppose I will be writing a cheque.
 
This shouldn’t really be a surprise. But these models all have plans that would allow anyone to fabricate any of the pieces needed to build one from scratch if needed. That and I expect the vendors would be able to supply the more difficult pieces (landing gear, canopy, cowling, etc) so I don’t see this marking the death knell of these “legacy” RVs.

Love my 4. Yes it has its drawbacks versus the more erector set kits that followed but it flies like a dream.
 
For an RV6, the 7 canopy and engine mount is the same. 7 wingtips fit a 6 (which is what mine has). Cowl is the same as far as I’m aware, for little things like the tail fairing there are aftermarket options which are better than the Vans supplied parts.

It is concerning about replacement parts though. I got two RV6 aileron skins from Vans that were both damaged (dented trailing edges) AND were formed incorrectly, with one of the pre formed bends in the skin being made 1/4” too far along. 8 months later and I’m waiting for my replacements, which I’m hoping will be bent correctly else I’m back to square one.
 
Jonnyb said:
It’s a shame, but not surprising really.
There can’t be many orders for these kits anymore.
I do wonder if anyone is ordering anything other than a 10 or 14 these days.
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Yeah, it’s not surprising. Probably not many people are buying these kits now. I bet most just go for the 10 or 14 if they still order at all.
 
MIKE JG said:
I 'thought' the 8 was the most popular kit overall but don't quote me on that. What my own eyes saw last year walking around homebuilt camping was way more 10's than I had ever seen and a lot of 14s as well.
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Northernliving said:
The RV6 still has the most flying by a pretty wide margin.
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A couple years ago, I asked one of the Van's guys at the booth at Oshkosh about current sales, because the company seemed to be a little more open about their order numbers after the pandemic than they were before. I think he said... I might be remembering this incorrectly... that lately, 10/12/14 orders have outnumbered 7/8/9 orders by a factor of something like 3x or 4x. And Van said recently (I forget if it was a magazine article, or EAA webinar, or OSH forum, or what) that the RV-3 and 4 were down to a couple or maybe a handful per year. (I strongly suspect that most of those become Harmon Rockets).
 
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1752249043238.pngThe "End of the trail!"
Change always comes with a little introspection. And after having built and flown all three legacy RV's, I would like to share some thoughts. First, it was fun and enjoyable. There was a tremendous amount a self satisfaction and learning involved through the hands on fabrication of some of the major airframe components. The hinge brackets for the elevators came has a single stick of 1/8" x 2' x 2" aluminum angle. To maintain accuracy and interchangeability you were required to devise and build your own manufacturing jigs. And those skills you won't find building the newer kits. Having said that, I fully understand the advanges of the newer pre-punched kits. They are easier to assemble, saves hours in build time, insures uniformity, etc. All good things. But at the same time, should I choose to build again, I will miss alot of the hands on fun of the older kits.

Chuck Brietigam
RV-6XXL
 
Now I suppose the question becomes…….will Vans sell a RV-7 finish kit to a RV-6 builder? Does this impact the bill of sale or builder number in some way?
 
Sam Buchanan said:
Now I suppose the question becomes…….will Vans sell a RV-7 finish kit to a RV-6 builder? Does this impact the bill of sale or builder number in some way?
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I am wondering the same thing, if I order the 7 finish kit how well will everything match up or is it a 90% solution?
 
Mistral said:
I am wondering the same thing, if I order the 7 finish kit how well will everything match up or is it a 90% solution?
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I've wondered the same thing since this thread started, that is the reason for my questions. The -6 canopy frame/bubble/associated parts require extensive fabrication by the builder because neither the fuse or canopy is pre-punched. This makes each aircraft unique to a certain degree.

The -7 canopy system includes pre-punched parts. What if the pre-punched holes don't line up when mocked up on a -6 fuse that is slightly different from the pre-punched -7 fuse? Yes, the bubble is the same on these models but those of us who have "enjoyed" getting a -6 canopy frame to fit the fuse and shut properly realize the shape of the bubble is the least of the issues involved.

Perhaps someone who has fitted a -7 canopy assembly on a -6 fuse can offer comments.
 
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Slightly off topic, but close. Why doesn't Vans show the 6 or 6A on their front page under the "Kit-built aircraft" tab? They dropped it a while ago, and I've always felt like the red-headed stepchild! They still show the 3 and 4.
 
pczar3 said:
Slightly off topic, but close. Why doesn't Vans show the 6 or 6A on their front page under the "Kit-built aircraft" tab? They dropped it a while ago, and I've always felt like the red-headed stepchild! They still show the 3 and 4.
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Paul, I believe that is because Vans stopped selling RV-6 tail kits a few years ago, they didn't want any new RV-6 builders, wanted them starting RV-7 instead. The -3 and -4 tail kits are still available....for a bit longer.
 
Glad to hear support (and parts supply) will continue as the owner of a 6 and a newly purchased (and beautiful flying) 3, so it’s certainly not “the end.” Hopefully those still building will get what they need to finish their builds and join the community of veteran bauxite smelters. Press on! these are great flying machines!

Peter

Ironflight said:
We did a lot to “promote” the RV-3 about a dozen years ago as we were building it, and maybe five or six years after that, I was sitting at Vans and asked if they saw a bump in RV-3 kit sales. There was a laugh,m and they said maybe they’d sold one or two more tail kits…a YEAR since then. Fabulous airplane, but it has a few problems in today’s market….its a single seater, and most people THINK they are goign to want to carry passengers (many folks never put another person in their two-seaters….), it costs almost as much to build a single-seater as a two-seater becasue engines, props, and avionics are a huge portion of the finished cost….and most people don’t want to start their build by constructing a smelter to refine the raw bauxite into aluminum and then roll it into sheets.

The reason Vans doesn’t re-engineer it as a pre-punched modern kit to fix the third problem is becasue of the first two problems…

Without a doubt, the RV-3 is the best-flying airplane of the entire line (and I have flown them all)….but you’ll just have to find a good used one. We just acquired the RV-3.4 project from David Howe, so we’ll get to finish that at least!
Click to expand...
 
I'm sure the good folks from Van's read this forum. It would be a good move by them to extend this deadline to 2 years. That gives existing builders time to find the money for the kits they need OR time to sell what they have to someone who can push it across the finish line. Given that they haven't sold new RV-6 tail kits for 24 years, I don't see the need to rush. Another couple of years to let the process play out would be much more customer friendly than a 3 month notice.
 
I've wondered if at least the -4 was updated to modern kit standards if it would've sold better in the last 20 years. I've also wondered if a third party manufacturer were to offer a modern -4 kit, if it would sell. If I could do that for a living, I would.
 
Ironflight said:
We did a lot to “promote” the RV-3 about a dozen years ago as we were building it, and maybe five or six years after that, I was sitting at Vans and asked if they saw a bump in RV-3 kit sales. There was a laugh,m and they said maybe they’d sold one or two more tail kits…a YEAR since then. Fabulous airplane, but it has a few problems in today’s market….its a single seater, and most people THINK they are goign to want to carry passengers (many folks never put another person in their two-seaters….), it costs almost as much to build a single-seater as a two-seater becasue engines, props, and avionics are a huge portion of the finished cost….and most people don’t want to start their build by constructing a smelter to refine the raw bauxite into aluminum and then roll it into sheets.

The reason Vans doesn’t re-engineer it as a pre-punched modern kit to fix the third problem is becasue of the first two problems…

Without a doubt, the RV-3 is the best-flying airplane of the entire line (and I have flown them all)….but you’ll just have to find a good used one. We just acquired the RV-3.4 project from David Howe, so we’ll get to finish that at least!
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I am going to build one regardless. I know it will cost a lot and probably won't be worth what I have into it, however, when you get older, you want what you want and that is it. It will be my little custom pocket rocket to go have fun in and just bomb around. Maybe beat up on the neighborhood with a few blowby's every now and then. It's just a damn good airplane and flies so nice, why not have one in the stable?
 
arffguy said:
Wow! A whole two and a half months' notice. I don't even know where to begin. My project has been stalled and there is no way I can come up with the money for a finishing kit in two and a half months. Angry, disappointed, and can't really say what I want to say out loud here.
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I have been trying to order the finishing kit for my 6 for 3 weeks even before the announcement and still i heard nothing from Vans so it more like as of July 10th there no longer supporting the 3,4,and 6! I will say at least for the finishing kit they said the kit was a 12-15 month lead time so if you have the deposit it can get you started.
 
joeboisselle said:
I've wondered if at least the -4 was updated to modern kit standards if it would've sold better in the last 20 years. I've also wondered if a third party manufacturer were to offer a modern -4 kit, if it would sell. If I could do that for a living, I would.
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I spoke with Van himself at OSH a few years back, and the effort to "tool up" and digitize/mass produce did not fit the demand model. Vans has (had) all their machinery tied up on the models with most demand. I love my -4 (I built it), and have considered scooping up an abandoned project , but as we know, that's a lengthy build. I'm 100% Vans product, but the Panther is , I assume still being marketed, and has similar attributes and lines of the -4, but constructed like a Zenith product.
 
I hope they can stay true to their words. I've been trying to get some -3 parts out of them for months and all my inquiries, I still haven't gotten word back from anyone there. I have about 3/4 of a -3 kit and just need a few more parts to complete it out and even with a handful of money ready to be spent, they dodge and avoid getting the parts on order and taking my money. Strange.....
 
arffguy said:
Wow! A whole two and a half months' notice. I don't even know where to begin. My project has been stalled and there is no way I can come up with the money for a finishing kit in two and a half months. Angry, disappointed, and can't really say what I want to say out loud here.
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If you need a -6 Finish kit, most of the RV-7 finish kit will work. Canopy, Cowl, Gear legs and fairings, brakes and all that stuff, will fit your 6.
 
I've not flown the -3 but have flown all the others. I think the -4, flown solo, was the best handling of the bunch, but with somebody in the back, the same stick pull that gave 2Gs solo would give 5Gs (!). The ride in turbulence was way bouncy -- light wing loading -- and with a leather jacket on, I touched the fuselage with both shoulders, and I'm not very big. A constant speed prop would have really helped, too. The -8 addressed all those issues, but didn't have the exquisite handling of the -4. (I've got 350 hours in the -4, 150 or so in the -8/A).
 
arffguy said:
Wow! A whole two and a half months' notice. I don't even know where to begin. My project has been stalled and there is no way I can come up with the money for a finishing kit in two and a half months. Angry, disappointed, and can't really say what I want to say out loud here.
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They may still support kits purchased from them. If you purchased the kit from an individual there might be issues. Call Vans support
 
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