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2 million in liability insurance

J

johnpaul44

Well Known Member
I have been hearing rumors that the airport I'm currently hangered at may decide to require 2 million in liability coverage for all aircraft hangered there. I thought no issue, but after calling 10+ insurance brokers, all of them said the same thing. No insurance carrier will insure experimental aircraft for 2 million liability coverage, and 80% to 90% of carriers will not even insure a certified Cessna 172 for 2 million. For context, I'm not running a business, this is for personal coverage sunday morning type of flying.

I'm wondering if anybody else has this experience as well?
 
johnpaul44 said:
I have been hearing rumors that the airport I'm currently hangered at may decide to require 2 million in liability coverage for all aircraft hangered there. I thought no issue, but after calling 10+ insurance brokers, all of them said the same thing. No insurance carrier will insure experimental aircraft for 2 million liability coverage, and 80% to 90% of carriers will not even insure a certified Cessna 172 for 2 million. For context, I'm not running a business, this is for personal coverage sunday morning type of flying.

I'm wondering if anybody else has this experience as well?
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My suggestion is to let them know what you found out. Give them copies of your communications with the insurance companies / brokers.
 
Having called the brokers, I think my next stop would be a visit with the individuals who serve on whatever governmental body runs your airport.

Note the emphasis on individuals. You can often make a lot of progress with an individual over coffee or a beer, while addressing the same individuals as a group in a public meeting tends to be a waste of breath.

Just had a meeting with my county commissioner regarding a street problem...in the lounge chairs on my front porch, with a cold drink. We agreed how to fix the street pretty quick, then spent an hour curing the world's problems. Now he is my buddy.
 
johnpaul44 said:
I have been hearing rumors that the airport I'm currently hangered at may decide to require 2 million in liability coverage for all aircraft hangered there. I thought no issue, but after calling 10+ insurance brokers, all of them said the same thing. No insurance carrier will insure experimental aircraft for 2 million liability coverage, and 80% to 90% of carriers will not even insure a certified Cessna 172 for 2 million. For context, I'm not running a business, this is for personal coverage sunday morning type of flying.

I'm wondering if anybody else has this experience as well?
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Limits and sublimits seem to be very difficult lines for aviation insurers to cross. I suspect they serve as a bulwark against the relatively unpredictable world of aviation accidents (as opposed to, say, the relatively well understood, big data life-insurance facts about when and how the average person of age X will die).

I wonder if the airport would be satisfied with a more generic policy that protected them if, say, your hangar caught on fire. Sort of like an apartment renter’s policy. If the airport has insurance requirements for vendors, maintenance shops on site, etc., I’d be interested to hear what types of policies those policies are, the limits, and the insurers involved.

I’d also be interested to learn how this potential new requirement got thought up. There’s often some very muddy thinking behind a demand for more insurance.
 
Insurance must be very different in the US. I just received 4 quotes, all for 2 million liability with the option for 5 million, on my 8 which only has 55 hrs since I started flying it this year. I have 1400 hrs TW but only the 55 on the 8.
 
Contact your airport's AOPA Airport Support Network volunteer (link). AOPA may be able to help with this and they should be made aware of it in any case.
 
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RV7 To Go said:
Insurance must be very different in the US. I just received 4 quotes, all for 2 million liability with the option for 5 million, on my 8 which only has 55 hrs since I started flying it this year. I have 1400 hrs TW but only the 55 on the 8.
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Yes, I suspect it’s quite different. What are your premiums and (if any) sub-limits?
 
DanH said:
Having called the brokers, I think my next stop would be a visit with the individuals who serve on whatever governmental body runs your airport.

Note the emphasis on individuals. You can often make a lot of progress with an individual over coffee or a beer, while addressing the same individuals as a group in a public meeting tends to be a waste of breath.

Just had a meeting with my county commissioner regarding a street problem...in the lounge chairs on my front porch, with a cold drink. We agreed how to fix the street pretty quick, then spent an hour curing the world's problems. Now he is my buddy.
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+1, but as part of the discussion I'd ask if it would be helpful for you to prep a written summary of your discussion points and send it to their "governmental body" address. I suspect the answer willbe yes. It accomplishes at least two things: 1) It ensures that (s)he heard what you think you said, e.g. no potential misunderstandings or faulty memory downsteam; and 2) The person you speak with almost certainly deals with lots of issues raised by lots of people, so having a written refresher simplifies their jobs when the issue comes up in discussions with their counterparts.
 
RV7 To Go said:
Insurance must be very different in the US. I just received 4 quotes, all for 2 million liability with the option for 5 million, on my 8 which only has 55 hrs since I started flying it this year. I have 1400 hrs TW but only the 55 on the 8.
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Canadian or US$? 2,000,000 CAD is like $25 US. 😜
 
RV7 To Go said:
Yep, don't we know it! Try building a plane in Canada these days...pretty outrageous with the exchange rate, taxes and shipping.
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On the other hand, if you could even get a US insurer to write $2MM smooth, they’d probably want $140k!! US!!!!! 🤣
 
Just renewed my policies this week. Since inception both aircraft had $2m liability cover and while this was only slightly unusual a couple of years ago it seems to be more normal now. I could have selected a higher value but $2m seems about right. If you taxi into a private jet, or crash in a vineyard you'll be chewing through that pretty quick I should imagine.
 
johnpaul44 said:
I have been hearing rumors that the airport I'm currently hangered at may decide to require 2 million in liability coverage for all aircraft hangered there. I thought no issue, but after calling 10+ insurance brokers, all of them said the same thing. No insurance carrier will insure experimental aircraft for 2 million liability coverage, and 80% to 90% of carriers will not even insure a certified Cessna 172 for 2 million. For context, I'm not running a business, this is for personal coverage sunday morning type of flying.

I'm wondering if anybody else has this experience as well?
Click to expand...
Just paid the bill from Global for an RV-6A and they wouldn't give more than $1,000.000 and $200,000 passenger for liability only for $600.00 per year. I'm 74 with plenty of hours and hangered plane
My luck varies FIXIT
 
planenutz said:
Just renewed my policies this week. Since inception both aircraft had $2m liability cover and while this was only slightly unusual a couple of years ago it seems to be more normal now. I could have selected a higher value but $2m seems about right. If you taxi into a private jet, or crash in a vineyard you'll be chewing through that pretty quick I should imagine.
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Are you outside the US? Seems US based insurance company are refusing the write these policies over 1 million.
 
I'm based at a privately owned public use airport. Several years ago, we were given a similar ultimatum. I have always self insured my RV4 that I built, and this was new territory. I had no choice, insurance as required or move on. We are only required for liability , so it isn't all that much. After hearing the stories of hangar row fires and such, I can understand it, and find its more common than you might think.
 
johnpaul44 said:
Are you outside the US? Seems US based insurance company are refusing the write these policies over 1 million.
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Yes I am. I also get that the USD is strong against other currencies and that $2m Pacific Pecoes is probably only US$1.5m, however my point was that the same underwriters are clearly using values in excess of US$1m in other countries around the world.

I wonder why??? Odd.
 
planenutz said:
however my point was that the same underwriters are clearly using values in excess of US$1m in other countries around the world.

I wonder why??? Odd.
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Perhaps because the US is an unusually litigious country. Insurers are likely at greater risk of having to deal with a lawsuit in US, payouts are consequently more common, and therefore they don’t want to have to be on the hook for more than $1M. In less litigious countries, insurers are less exposed to lawsuit claims and can therefore afford the occasional $2M payout.
 
planenutz said:
I wonder why??? Odd.
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No idea about hull coverage, but liability exposure (claims and defense costs) for aviation insurers will be substantially higher in the US than in Canada or in any European country I can think of. The insurers in the US have correctly concluded that the best way for them to limit their liability is to… limit their liability. 😉
 
Do they want the 2m liab ins on the plane/you or on the insurance for the hangar and stuff you do in it,.like renters insurance separate from aircraft ins.?
 
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