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Vertical power PPS issue!

JeremyL

JeremyL

Well Known Member
Patron
I attempted to power my system up for the first time yesterday and I experienced a problem with the PPS. The pps would not allow battery power to flow to the main bus (VPX-pro) when the master switch was flipped. We made several checks to establish continuity from the master switch to the PPS pin 7, to the ground from the switch and from the PPS, made sure the we were getting proper power to the PPS and confirmed that the power was not being allowed to the “main bus” post on the PPS. I even de-pinned the PPS connector and stuck the male pins for power and ground into the port on the PPS. Nothing! I called vertical power and explained it to them, they agreed it seems that there may be an issue inside of the PPS. They agreed to have me provide me an RMA to send the unit in to be diagnosed. The unit is brand new and still under warranty. Has anyone had the same or a similar issue?? Is there a trick I’m missing?? Also to verify that the VPX was working, vertical power confirmed that I could attach the + battery cable directly to the VPX post and confirm it works. It worked and ran perfectly fine. The good news here is all of my wiring was perfect and I had no issues anywhere else. Thoughts?
 
I've got almost 400 hours on my PPS without issues. Sounds like you've checked and double checked your wiring. There could be a problem inside the box. Chad will get you taken care of.
 
JeremyL said:
I attempted to power my system up for the first time yesterday and I experienced a problem with the PPS. The pps would not allow battery power to flow to the main bus (VPX-pro) when the master switch was flipped. We made several checks to establish continuity from the master switch to the PPS pin 7, to the ground from the switch and from the PPS, made sure the we were getting proper power to the PPS and confirmed that the power was not being allowed to the “main bus” post on the PPS. I even de-pinned the PPS connector and stuck the male pins for power and ground into the port on the PPS. Nothing! I called vertical power and explained it to them, they agreed it seems that there may be an issue inside of the PPS. They agreed to have me provide me an RMA to send the unit in to be diagnosed. The unit is brand new and still under warranty. Has anyone had the same or a similar issue?? Is there a trick I’m missing?? Also to verify that the VPX was working, vertical power confirmed that I could attach the + battery cable directly to the VPX post and confirm it works. It worked and ran perfectly fine. The good news here is all of my wiring was perfect and I had no issues anywhere else. Thoughts?
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Pls keep us informed of what is found / done to correct. Thank you!
 
Looks like the same Verticle Power symble that was in the elavator at the hotel yesterday, what exactly is it? A bus of some kind?
 
I googled it, the old way works fine last long time. Send it back return it, I can help you wire your plane without that computer, nothing to it.
 
Ruready said:
I googled it, the old way works fine last long time. Send it back return it, I can help you wire your plane without that computer, nothing to it.
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The PPS is reliable, there are a lot in service and I've never heard of one failing. It's a great solution, solid state, doesn't wear out and get weak, and a very simple device internally that also gives you additional information to work with when connected to a VPX Pro.

The jury is still out if this is a PPS failure or something else.

However, I don't hink "going back to the old way" is good advice here, no need to throw the baby out with the bath water.
 
JeremyL said:
“Tires screeeching”…….. I only had one grounded… so this could be the issue? I still have the unit, I will try grounding both pins this afternoon and report back.
Oh and yeah I’m not going back to the old way, I love the solid state.
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Absolutely agree, solid state is the way to go.

The main battery distribution reset input and the alternator distribution reset input must be grounded or the PPS will not power up.
Also note on the comprehensive installation diagram the switch shown on pins 1 and 8 are normally open switches. This is incorrectly depicted as those switches need to be normally closed or latching switches that have to be closed (grounded) in order for the unit to power up.

It is best to solidly ground pins 1 and 8, do not use reset switches at all. If you have an alternator failure from the PPS, you will get an alternator fault on your EFIS and if you have a main battery distribution fault your EFIS will switch to the back up battery which should send you a message signaling your main power has quit.

Keep it simple…….
 
lumber214 said:
Absolutely agree, solid state is the way to go.

The main battery distribution reset input and the alternator distribution reset input must be grounded or the PPS will not power up.
Also note on the comprehensive installation diagram the switch shown on pins 1 and 8 are normally open switches. This is incorrectly depicted as those switches need to be normally closed or latching switches that have to be closed (grounded) in order for the unit to power up.

It is best to solidly ground pins 1 and 8, do not use reset switches at all. If you have an alternator failure from the PPS, you will get an alternator fault on your EFIS and if you have a main battery distribution fault your EFIS will switch to the back up battery which should send you a message signaling your main power has quit.

Keep it simple…….
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Both my planes work fine the good old way, solenoid and wire, works great. Good luck, Im on the way to the field to going flying the old way.
 
I guess I just like old simple.. take a 60s muscle car over a battery box every day... 2 stroke motocross bike from the 80s over the new 4 stroke junk
 
Hopefully everyone reads and understands their contactors rating!! (And comfortable with the limitations)

10 secs on 20 mins off :eek:
 
Last edited:
dmattmul said:
Hopefully everyone reads and understands their contactors rating!! (And comfortable with the limitations)

10 secs on 20 mins off :eek:
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For the PPS? Here's the duty cycle:

The PPS was designed to be more tolerant to overheating than most starters, but measures should still be taken to limit heat build up in the PPS. First and most important is to always follow your starter manufacturer’s published duty cycle guidelines. In most cases, this will be adequate to prevent heat damage to the PPS. For reference, here are the start mode duty cycle guidelines for the PPS:

• Each starting attempt must not exceed 20-seconds.
• After each starting attempt, there must be a 60-second rest time.
• After three (3) starting attempts, a 10-minute cool down period is required

I mean I've never tried to start for 20 seconds, but I also have that new fangled electronic ignition ... which I'm sure doesn't work as good as Ruready's old one ...
 
bkervaski said:
For the PPS? Here's the duty cycle:

The PPS was designed to be more tolerant to overheating than most starters, but measures should still be taken to limit heat build up in the PPS. First and most important is to always follow your starter manufacturer’s published duty cycle guidelines. In most cases, this will be adequate to prevent heat damage to the PPS. For reference, here are the start mode duty cycle guidelines for the PPS:

• Each starting attempt must not exceed 20-seconds.
• After each starting attempt, there must be a 60-second rest time.
• After three (3) starting attempts, a 10-minute cool down period is required

I mean I've never tried to start for 20 seconds, but I also have that new fangled electronic ignition ... which I'm sure doesn't work as good as Ruready's old one ...
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Interesting, does that duty cycle take into account a ‘hot’ start where the unit is subjected to high under cowl temps?
Like all electronics heat is the enemy.
 
Walt said:
Interesting, does that duty cycle take into account a ‘hot’ start where the unit is subjected to high under cowl temps?
Like all electronics heat is the enemy.
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Well, it doesn't HAVE to be installed firewall forward, for example on Carbon Cubs they go where the factory relays would go, which is just in the seat riser with the AP servos.

But with electronic ignition we just really don't run into starting issues. If you have to struggle starting something is wrong, i.e. flooded or worse.

There is a possibility, just saying, the new stuff can be better. Not always, I'll be the first to agree. For example, solid state is just that, no moving parts, which is a big plus imho. Also being able to see the actual amp draws at the relay is useful. There's also additional safety features. Of course there are always tradeoffs.

Now get off my lawn!
 
JeremyL said:
Ok folks, this was the answer! I did not have one of these pins grounded. Once I pinned another ground, the system fired up and operated perfectly! This was not a PPS problem, it was a ME problem. Great news and good products. Thank you
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Hopefully this will help others that have the same issue. I have spoken with vertical power and asked them to update their schematics to properly depict those switches as normally closed. I also asked them to put a note in there specifying all pins that need to be grounded in order for the unit to operate.

Glad I was able to help and your PPS is operating.

Steve
 
lumber214 said:
Hopefully this will help others that have the same issue. I have spoken with vertical power and asked them to update their schematics to properly depict those switches as normally closed. I also asked them to put a note in there specifying all pins that need to be grounded in order for the unit to operate.

Glad I was able to help and your PPS is operating.

Steve
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Terrific ! I’m certain it will help someone in the future and hopefully this post does as well.
 
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