I've heard it said (and it makes sense) that the only source for 390 cores is a crashed late model SR-20. So yeah probably rare as hell.
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Engine, Prop and Avionics Update posted
- Thread starter Brantel
- Start date
Any chance of building up an io-360? You could certainly get it into the same HP range, and those cores should be plentiful...
I did tell both shops that an angle valve 360 would be an option for me - it needs the prop governor pad at the front left apparently? (According to Van’s guidance). These are apparently just as rare as the 390 cases. Hope someone here knows more than me and has a better suggestion!
Well, hallelujah! 2 years, 9 months and 1 day after ordering my IO-540, Van’s advised today that Lycoming is shipping the engine. Couldn’t be happier, can’t wait the finish the firewall forward and get the plane ready for flight.
Pilot135pd
Well Known Member
After everything we read here where they say one thing and the next day it's a different thing, I sure hope you get a tracking number. Congrats !!
NavyS3BNFO
Well Known Member
Does anyone know how long after your engine is placed on the "build schedule" to expect delivery? I was notified in August that Lycoming placed my Thunderbolt IO360 on the build schedule for January and my final payment was due (contrary to the contractual 60 days we all agreed to with the amendment). I paid it partially to mitigate any future price increases. Now we're at the end of January so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that build schedule means it will be (was) built sometime in January and there is a lag between build and ship. Just wanted to see what others experience has been. Original order March 2022.
I don't know if this is typical, but I was told in July my 390 TB was on the build schedule for November '24. It is in the build cell this week.
Pilot135pd
Well Known Member
That's the problem with agreements in Bankruptcy Court or any court for that matter. If one part doesn't comply now you have to spend money and go back to court to make them do what they promised to do to get out of court to begin with.
I had something like that recently with a tenant. They lost the case and they owed me a lot of money. They promised to pay me in 3 payments over the following 2 months. NOPE. If they hadn't paid as per the court order I would have had to go back and start all over again from the beginning. I told them pay before the 14 days like the court said or we go back to the same judge. They paid a week later.
That's very disappointing. I don't mind paying 60 days in advance for a kit but making a $50,000 final payment (IO390) six months early just adds another $1,000 to the cost of the engine in lost interest earnings :-(
C'mon Vans! We're keeping our end of the bargain at significant financial risk. Please keep yours! Honor your 60 day payment window.
Yeah, I know - Vans isn't monitoring this but I feel better
IO540 TB was build schedule in October. I was contacted July 2 for payment and I was told if I didn't pay it then I would get bumped in the que. Just got the engine last week so yes they had my full payment for 6 months.That's very disappointing. I don't mind paying 60 days in advance for a kit but making a $50,000 final payment (IO390) six months early just adds another $1,000 to the cost of the engine in lost interest earnings :-(
C'mon Vans! We're keeping our end of the bargain at significant financial risk. Please keep yours! Honor your 60 day payment window.
Yeah, I know - Vans isn't monitoring this but I feel better
NavyS3BNFO
Well Known Member
Based on a couple of the posts above, it looks like delivery is about 3 months after the build month. By that math my final payment will have been paid 8 months prior to delivery.
NavyS3BNFO
Well Known Member
Has anyone else received an "update" to their Lycoming TB engine order? I just received this via email after sending multiple emails requesting an update to the status of my engine order. My expected production date was originally January. January came and went with nothing. I finally reached out March 1 requesting the status. After several emails went unanswered this finally came today. No reason for the delay.
Not only that but I received a final payment due request in August for the original January production date. Of course I paid it since the threat was you would go to the back of the line if you didn't pay right away despite the agreement that final payment wasn't due until 60 days prior to production date. Now Vans will have my final payment for 9 mos prior to delivery - best case. To say this is disappointing is an understatement. It's not so much the delays but the lack of communication, failure to comply with their own agreements and threats if you dare question anything.
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You have placed an order for a Lycoming engine, and we know how important it is for you to stay informed about its expected production and delivery timeline, so you can plan your build accordingly. We have been working closely with Lycoming to improve communication regarding any changes to their projected delivery schedule and to ensure you receive timely updates if Lycoming’s delivery window shifts.
Lycoming has advised Van’s that the expected production and delivery date for your engine is: 5/2/2025
As Van’s receive new information from Lycoming, we will share updates with you promptly. Additionally, we are working to integrate engine order details into the Van’s Aircraft kit status portal, so you’ll be able access to the most up-to-date information at any time.
Van’s will contact you for your balance payment approximately 120 days prior to your scheduled delivery date. Final payment is due within 14 days of receiving the balance payment request.
Sincerely,
The Van’s Aircraft Team
Not only that but I received a final payment due request in August for the original January production date. Of course I paid it since the threat was you would go to the back of the line if you didn't pay right away despite the agreement that final payment wasn't due until 60 days prior to production date. Now Vans will have my final payment for 9 mos prior to delivery - best case. To say this is disappointing is an understatement. It's not so much the delays but the lack of communication, failure to comply with their own agreements and threats if you dare question anything.
--------
You have placed an order for a Lycoming engine, and we know how important it is for you to stay informed about its expected production and delivery timeline, so you can plan your build accordingly. We have been working closely with Lycoming to improve communication regarding any changes to their projected delivery schedule and to ensure you receive timely updates if Lycoming’s delivery window shifts.
Lycoming has advised Van’s that the expected production and delivery date for your engine is: 5/2/2025
As Van’s receive new information from Lycoming, we will share updates with you promptly. Additionally, we are working to integrate engine order details into the Van’s Aircraft kit status portal, so you’ll be able access to the most up-to-date information at any time.
Van’s will contact you for your balance payment approximately 120 days prior to your scheduled delivery date. Final payment is due within 14 days of receiving the balance payment request.
Sincerely,
The Van’s Aircraft Team
Pilot135pd
Well Known Member
Everyone is pulling for Van's to remain afloat and continue providing great kits, but things like this hurt their reputation so much.
Yes similar email received this morning except 4/2/25. I think I paid in full last July. Delivery schedule has slipped Oct - Nov-Dec- then I heard a rumor they started it January. I also got an email last year showing they delivered it....that was a miscommunication and got cleared up by Vans. Lycoming has not responded to any of my emails asking very nicely if they had any updates on my engine. I realize we are still in challenging supply chain/experienced labor times but it would be nice to get a monthly update on what is going on from Vans and Lycoming.
NavyS3BNFO
Well Known Member
OBTW, the Lycoming engine orders pages have been taken down on the Vans aircraft website. I don't know when that happened but it doesn't make me feel great. It certainly would be nice to have someone of authority give an update on the Vans/Lycoming working relationship and how production and delivery schedules are being handled and communicated. Not expecting anything but.....
A year or so ago I received an update saying my engine was estimated to be built this month, March '25. In October they contacted me and asked if I would/could take it a month or two early (if I pay the balance immediately.) Of course I agreed and did so. I called Van's a month ago asking about the status and it was no different from the year old quote (sigh.)
This morning I got the same form letter as you with this update; "Lycoming has advised Van’s that the expected production and delivery date for your engine is: 5/23/2025." Sooo, just since October it has slipped 4 months? And what's with quoting this ambiguous, specific date? Production and delivery will happen on that same day???? Ridiculous!
More disturbing and twisted is this statement "Van’s will contact you for your balance payment approximately 120 days prior to your scheduled delivery date. Final payment is due within 14 days of receiving the balance payment request. A) I already paid and B) 120 days was back in January. WTAF?
I was leary and suspected last October that maybe they were not being honest about the schedule moving up, that they may be hurting for cash. I hope for everyone's sake that isn't the case, but this sure isn't looking good.
I ordered a Thunderbolt 390 in March of 2022, with my prop. I went back in my email archive and found this:
"Lycoming have assigned your engine an estimated ship date of 20 December 2023"
I also got the email update today stating:
"Lycoming has advised Van’s that the expected production and delivery date for your engine is: 8/4/2026"
That will be over 4 years... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
"Lycoming have assigned your engine an estimated ship date of 20 December 2023"
I also got the email update today stating:
"Lycoming has advised Van’s that the expected production and delivery date for your engine is: 8/4/2026"
That will be over 4 years... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
When did you guys put your initial orders in?
From Vans...
Hi Michael. Lycoming has informed us there were in error with some of the manufacturing completion dates they provided for the communication this morning. Your order is one of the orders where the date was in error. We are getting the correct dates from Lycoming and will send you an update shortly.
Thank you.
The year was incorrect... 8/4/2025 is the new date
I got the letter today as well. It said:
"Lycoming has advised Van’s that the expected production and delivery date for your engine is: 3/10/2025"
I was excited for about 5 seconds until I realized it was likely a mistake. I sent them an email and asked if they had the wrong year and I got a second email saying the date was actually 3/10/2026.
"Lycoming has advised Van’s that the expected production and delivery date for your engine is: 3/10/2025"
I was excited for about 5 seconds until I realized it was likely a mistake. I sent them an email and asked if they had the wrong year and I got a second email saying the date was actually 3/10/2026.
Ordered my TB 540 in March, 2022.
Yep! Another price increase for engines and props.
My IO-390 Thunderbolt was $57,400 when I ordered it in April 2023 and I thought that was CRAZY expensive!!! Today that engine is right at $80,000. A 39% increase in two years! 80 grand for a glorified Corvair engine with 75 year old technology???? Absolutely astounding.
I hope Lycoming wakes up soon because 20% annual price hikes are not sustainable. They may continue to get orders for certified airplanes but I suspect experimental orders will drop.
Jjackh10
Well Known Member
They're owned by Textron so Lycoming is barely an ink spot on the balance sheet. GA engines are a 2 party monopoly so when they can profit 60%+ per unit why not. I suspect doing that also keeps them in favor with Textron.
What I don't really understand is why there's not more aftermarket "clone" production. It's done in on many automotive and recreational engines. As you suggest, like a Corvair there's nothing difficult to make. And with the prices this high it would seem like a good idea even with the very limited market. Maybe the companies still making VW parts? I haven't looked in a while but I'm pretty sure you can still build an entirely new VW engine for well under $5k.
I agree but Lycoming is still making engines to sell to consumers. At least I think they are. I don't understand the logic of pricing these lawnmower engines like the cases are made out of solid gold but then I'm not running Lycoming.
As a matter of principle, I'm not sure if I would have started building my airplane if I knew the engine alone was going to cost $80,000+
Aman Brother...
Pilot135pd
Well Known Member
Looks like my plane just went up in value then !
That's great if you're getting out of aviation altogether.
I got the same email notice on Monday. I ordered my IO-540 TB in July of 2022. The original delivery date was 26 January 2024. Okay, 1 1/2 years. I get it... That date eventually slid to July 2025. Back in late October I received an email asking if I would commit to an earlier date of February build and March delivery (moved up from July), and requested the balance payment, which I did. At the time they told me they require payment of 90 days prior. In mid February I emailed Van's requesting an update, as I had hoped to confirm the order with Chris at Lycoming. I was then told that my delivery date had been moved to August! Van's told me it was due to Lycoming having supply chain and capacity issues especially getting magnesium of good quality for cylinders. I was quite disappointed to say the least... The delivery date on this new notice is 6/20/2025. In the mean time they are still sitting on my final payment. I was expecting 90 days, not 9 months. Not sure what to make of this info.
Pilot135pd
Well Known Member
Do you need to sell your house to be glad it appreciated in value? Same for the plane, I'm happy it's going up even if I'm not going to sell it.
NavyS3BNFO
Well Known Member
I truly think this is going to hurt future sales of RV-10 kits. There will still be a group of people who aren't that price sensitive, but for the marginal buyer who thought they could build a four place family hauler for a reasonable price, that is no longer the case. I also think the TB premium is going to hurt sales once they work off the existing backlog.
Jjackh10
Well Known Member
I don't think the sales impact will be limited to the -10 either. I suspect it will hurt them all.
Jjackh10
Well Known Member
I can't afford to build one now, that's a data point of 1.
I couldn’t start now.
So that’s 2.
And if the future of general aviation doesn't matter to you. Because I do not see how this will not impact it negatively.
--Ron
I can absolutely say I would not move forward with the project today for a host of reasons (price, delays, general uncertainty of company viability, difficult to plan work efficiently, etc.) I have no doubt some will be able to afford a new build and have great success. If I could return everything I'd purchased and politely bow out, I 100% would do that, but alas I'm at least waist, if not chest deep in time and money. Need to find a way to finish it and if need be sell it.
That is my point exactly. When Zillow says my house went up 10%, I think "so what?" That just means if I want/have to move, I'll also be paying 10% more for the new house. Plus, I'll be paying more property tax, either way.
I suppose I could "downsize" in either house or airplane and somehow come out ahead. But by then, I'll be much closer to death and $ will be kinda meaningless.
Can you tell that I'm an old guy?
Pilot135pd
Well Known Member
I don't see it that way. I own an apartment that I paid $182,500 cash 2 years before the crash in 2009. It was then worth around $47,000 but I didn't care because I was living in it for a while and later rented it out for 12 years, so as long as I didn't sell it, it didn't affect me what it was worth. Slowly it increased in value and now is worth $220,000. Was I happy it increased in value every year"?
Of course, just as I'm happy my plane is worth more today than when I bought it. Just because my plane increased in value doesn't mean I have to sell it to buy another one either. That's what I'm talking about.
NavyS3BNFO
Well Known Member
Just curious what your plan is after you sell the engine? Do you already have an engine from another source? Or did you sell the rest of your project? I'm asking because the thought has crossed my mind but if I sell my engine I need to find another. And the appreciation in engine prices has probably outpaced my 401k recently.
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I had an engine built by Barrett and my RV10 is now flying because I didn't wait on Lycoming.Just curious what your plan is after you sell the engine? Do you already have an engine from another source? Or did you sell the rest of your project? I'm asking because the thought has crossed my mind but if I sell my engine I need to find another. And the appreciation in engine prices has probably outpaced my 401k recently.
Just received my payment notice for July 2025 build - first ordered Oct. 2023.
I"m going to pick up at the lycoming factory - can anybody confirm the pallet size of an IO-360-M1B?
- i'm planning on picking up in my F150 but trying to figure out if i need to remove my tonneau cover since it takes up a few feet of the truck bed.
I"m going to pick up at the lycoming factory - can anybody confirm the pallet size of an IO-360-M1B?
- i'm planning on picking up in my F150 but trying to figure out if i need to remove my tonneau cover since it takes up a few feet of the truck bed.
