Background: I learned to fly in 172s and bought the same make and model as my trainer. IT had come well equipped with an IFR GPS and dual G5s. Engine was past TBO 2300hrs but had 300 hr cylinders. For a long time, I think I was the new guy at the poker table of aviation ownership. I had some maintenance induced scares, for peace of mind I upgraded to a new 180 HP engine. Ended up with an all new Garmin panel and new paint. On vacation we toured the vans factory, I sat in an RV14, thought I might fit (very tall, a bit fat). So I went to visit Zach, flew in a 10 and caught the bug.
Shopping: The already flying market of 10s seemed very very small. It was information overload shopping, I broke it down with an ongoing list of planes, prices, features, engines, etc... After having a very nice 172, I wanted to make sure I had a nicely equipped panel, a reliable engine, and a plane that would not require much downtime. I shopped remotely as best I could. I recall that prices on many planes seemed a bit proud and many planes seemed to have something one off. Nice newer planes, perhaps built by pros, had engines that came out of something else. Or maybe the reasonable plane had an O-540, or maybe a lower HP engine. A big concern as a big guy was to not go for a plane with a panel that extended down further than needed so no throttle quadrant in the center, such planes were a firm pass based upon leg room concerns. VAF discussions ended up being of great benefit, amazed me. In asking questions about 10s or specific planes I had many people reach out with further info and information. While I worried about publicly discussing which planes to buy would lead to competition, doing so saved me from some poor decisions. Thank you to those that reached out with good and bad comments.
The plane I found was a long ways away, Waco Tx, I think the broker was Steve McLeod, he had two 10s at the time. It was a bit awkward dealing with a broker as intermediary, I would have preferred to deal direct with an owner, have a conversation. Steve was great to deal with though, not pushy, came across as quite honest. I reviewed what I could remotely. 2009. Mattituck new engine had 650 ish hours, maybe only 14 in two years though. IFR, AFS, AP. I set about learning more about all the SBs. I wanted some good help for a prebuy.
The prebuy: How was I to get a helping hand? I set about trying to stack things all in my favor. Steve likely could have done a good prebuy, by all means use him if you get a chance. He was an aviation instructor, has a nice shop, AP/IA, lots of RV experience, flies much of what he maintains. But I did not want the seller representative doing the work. Who would be the best option? Well, in my mind that was Vic Syracuse, his online visibility, DAR status, RV10 pilot, all of it made him the man. So I called him up, he was very gracious on the phone, explained what he was willing to do. I think he was only willing to travel limited distances. He suggested I buy his prebuy book, I did. He offered that for a flat fee he could do a logbook review and guide another mechanic to be his eyes and ears via telephone. Maybe ok to do this, perhaps I could find better. So I checked out more info, saw on Barnstormers an ad for Inside Out Aviation and a familiar name Syracuse. Nick had shown up in some of the Baseleg videos so I figured he knew his way around the RV world. I hired Nick who coordinated an inspection time with Steve, I flew down the night before. Steve and I did a demo flight the night before. On the prebuy morning I showed up at the hangar and helped open the plane up. Nick was actually doing two prebuys that morning, did mine first. I was like a puppy following him around for everything. I got a better understanding of the inspection items. I was right there as compressions were checked. I got to see the cylinders on camera, rust and all! The rust really concerned me, was kind of understandable given the lack of recent flying. But there was some under the breath comments along the lines of this engine looks as good as they come that gave me confidence. The next day I had a nice report sent via email along with a follow up discussion.
I bought the plane and flew it with a CFI to his home airport in the mountains of NC for a couple days of training, what a ball. Good guy Sam Lindsay 941-209-2322, lives also in the Mooney world.
There were a number of deferred maintenance items on the plane. All new hoses called for, proper magneto overhaul, prop reseal, some lighting issues, and some gadget related stuff with headings disagreeing. I wanted a quality shop to look over the plane, had an idea of 10% of the purchase price needing to come out of pocket for the first inspection. I reached out online to four shops, likely through their online presence. 1. Baseleg, I think no longer run by Vic, did not respond. I figured they were busy, some folks here reached out with additional info. 2. My old certified shop, who I met with. They were willing to do the work, but one of their two IAs sounded concerned about signing off an engine with any measure of corrosion. 3. Another shop in the DC/VA/MD area that advertises for the RV world. I spoke on the phone with someone there, who also said they would have a tough time signing off an engine with corrosion. 4. Nick at Inside Out was the obvious choice.
A note on corrosion: I talked to lots of people about this, had an idea of times and prices involved if I went the route of an engine overhaul or new engine. I was unable to get much off the price of the 10 based upon corrosion concerns. What we could observe on the camshaft through two spark plug holes was ok. My hangar mate in an RV who works as an AP for a very large company said every small GA plane was going to have some corrosion. 90% of online discussions pertaining to my situation suggested NOT BUYING the plane. a few said to fly it hard! Compressions were good, I used Camguard, sent a sample to Blackstone, and will follow the trend. A bad camshaft would likely change the story, but I saw the cylinders in person myself. I'm likely 50 hours in so expect I am good. I fly my wife in the plane. I suspect the signing off engines stuff is a bit like IAs not being willing to work on planes whose engines are beyond TBO.
First Condition Inspection: I run a farm based service that requires my time in November and December each year so took the plane to Jessup GA late October 2024. The biggest maintenance item was a prop reseal, also new LED lights, some help with my heading issues, adding a 2nd ADAHRS, new ELT for international travel, all new hoses, mag overhaul, adding a Surely. After the work was complete Nick test flew and fine tuned some stuff. When I showed up yesterday to pick the plane up it looked like it was pulled up to the hangar getting more work done, a blanket protecting the cowling. As I checked the oil I learned this was really the engine being kept warm with a fancy system, not just a heating pad. My first CI cost about 6.5% of the purchase price, better than I expected.
When I flew my plane into KJZP I learned there were no taxi or Uber service. The airport site has some private companies, one of which I hired to get to ATL for a car rental or flight home. It was easy to arrange. This same service was not available for the trip from ATL back to my plane due to winter wx that shut down the souther Atlanta area. My Uber guy yesterday has his own private company that can help if you are in the area (H. Russell Hicks 757-450-0958). Uber like rates but all to the operator.
I kept an eye on the wx for the flight home as a major storm was just leaving the SE US, five inches had fallen back home. I'd never landed in wet/cold/icy stuff before and searched out feedback on my thoughts with how to do this. It was a non issue as the FBO guys were out predawn with plows and what remained melted. The centerline white specks of snow I saw were likely salt. The uneventful flight home took a fraction of the time it took me to get out there commercially with my fuel costing much less than the tickets.
I was pleased with Nick Syracuse of Inside Out Aviation after the prebuy. It was of great value for me to be at the airport participating. But I really wanted to hold off on talking about him until the plane was done with its first condition inspection. Now that point has been reached and I wanted to share. I'm happy that I chose Nick for the prebuy and first condition inspection. Thank you Nick!
www.insideoutaviation.com
Shopping: The already flying market of 10s seemed very very small. It was information overload shopping, I broke it down with an ongoing list of planes, prices, features, engines, etc... After having a very nice 172, I wanted to make sure I had a nicely equipped panel, a reliable engine, and a plane that would not require much downtime. I shopped remotely as best I could. I recall that prices on many planes seemed a bit proud and many planes seemed to have something one off. Nice newer planes, perhaps built by pros, had engines that came out of something else. Or maybe the reasonable plane had an O-540, or maybe a lower HP engine. A big concern as a big guy was to not go for a plane with a panel that extended down further than needed so no throttle quadrant in the center, such planes were a firm pass based upon leg room concerns. VAF discussions ended up being of great benefit, amazed me. In asking questions about 10s or specific planes I had many people reach out with further info and information. While I worried about publicly discussing which planes to buy would lead to competition, doing so saved me from some poor decisions. Thank you to those that reached out with good and bad comments.
The plane I found was a long ways away, Waco Tx, I think the broker was Steve McLeod, he had two 10s at the time. It was a bit awkward dealing with a broker as intermediary, I would have preferred to deal direct with an owner, have a conversation. Steve was great to deal with though, not pushy, came across as quite honest. I reviewed what I could remotely. 2009. Mattituck new engine had 650 ish hours, maybe only 14 in two years though. IFR, AFS, AP. I set about learning more about all the SBs. I wanted some good help for a prebuy.
The prebuy: How was I to get a helping hand? I set about trying to stack things all in my favor. Steve likely could have done a good prebuy, by all means use him if you get a chance. He was an aviation instructor, has a nice shop, AP/IA, lots of RV experience, flies much of what he maintains. But I did not want the seller representative doing the work. Who would be the best option? Well, in my mind that was Vic Syracuse, his online visibility, DAR status, RV10 pilot, all of it made him the man. So I called him up, he was very gracious on the phone, explained what he was willing to do. I think he was only willing to travel limited distances. He suggested I buy his prebuy book, I did. He offered that for a flat fee he could do a logbook review and guide another mechanic to be his eyes and ears via telephone. Maybe ok to do this, perhaps I could find better. So I checked out more info, saw on Barnstormers an ad for Inside Out Aviation and a familiar name Syracuse. Nick had shown up in some of the Baseleg videos so I figured he knew his way around the RV world. I hired Nick who coordinated an inspection time with Steve, I flew down the night before. Steve and I did a demo flight the night before. On the prebuy morning I showed up at the hangar and helped open the plane up. Nick was actually doing two prebuys that morning, did mine first. I was like a puppy following him around for everything. I got a better understanding of the inspection items. I was right there as compressions were checked. I got to see the cylinders on camera, rust and all! The rust really concerned me, was kind of understandable given the lack of recent flying. But there was some under the breath comments along the lines of this engine looks as good as they come that gave me confidence. The next day I had a nice report sent via email along with a follow up discussion.
I bought the plane and flew it with a CFI to his home airport in the mountains of NC for a couple days of training, what a ball. Good guy Sam Lindsay 941-209-2322, lives also in the Mooney world.
There were a number of deferred maintenance items on the plane. All new hoses called for, proper magneto overhaul, prop reseal, some lighting issues, and some gadget related stuff with headings disagreeing. I wanted a quality shop to look over the plane, had an idea of 10% of the purchase price needing to come out of pocket for the first inspection. I reached out online to four shops, likely through their online presence. 1. Baseleg, I think no longer run by Vic, did not respond. I figured they were busy, some folks here reached out with additional info. 2. My old certified shop, who I met with. They were willing to do the work, but one of their two IAs sounded concerned about signing off an engine with any measure of corrosion. 3. Another shop in the DC/VA/MD area that advertises for the RV world. I spoke on the phone with someone there, who also said they would have a tough time signing off an engine with corrosion. 4. Nick at Inside Out was the obvious choice.
A note on corrosion: I talked to lots of people about this, had an idea of times and prices involved if I went the route of an engine overhaul or new engine. I was unable to get much off the price of the 10 based upon corrosion concerns. What we could observe on the camshaft through two spark plug holes was ok. My hangar mate in an RV who works as an AP for a very large company said every small GA plane was going to have some corrosion. 90% of online discussions pertaining to my situation suggested NOT BUYING the plane. a few said to fly it hard! Compressions were good, I used Camguard, sent a sample to Blackstone, and will follow the trend. A bad camshaft would likely change the story, but I saw the cylinders in person myself. I'm likely 50 hours in so expect I am good. I fly my wife in the plane. I suspect the signing off engines stuff is a bit like IAs not being willing to work on planes whose engines are beyond TBO.
First Condition Inspection: I run a farm based service that requires my time in November and December each year so took the plane to Jessup GA late October 2024. The biggest maintenance item was a prop reseal, also new LED lights, some help with my heading issues, adding a 2nd ADAHRS, new ELT for international travel, all new hoses, mag overhaul, adding a Surely. After the work was complete Nick test flew and fine tuned some stuff. When I showed up yesterday to pick the plane up it looked like it was pulled up to the hangar getting more work done, a blanket protecting the cowling. As I checked the oil I learned this was really the engine being kept warm with a fancy system, not just a heating pad. My first CI cost about 6.5% of the purchase price, better than I expected.
When I flew my plane into KJZP I learned there were no taxi or Uber service. The airport site has some private companies, one of which I hired to get to ATL for a car rental or flight home. It was easy to arrange. This same service was not available for the trip from ATL back to my plane due to winter wx that shut down the souther Atlanta area. My Uber guy yesterday has his own private company that can help if you are in the area (H. Russell Hicks 757-450-0958). Uber like rates but all to the operator.
I kept an eye on the wx for the flight home as a major storm was just leaving the SE US, five inches had fallen back home. I'd never landed in wet/cold/icy stuff before and searched out feedback on my thoughts with how to do this. It was a non issue as the FBO guys were out predawn with plows and what remained melted. The centerline white specks of snow I saw were likely salt. The uneventful flight home took a fraction of the time it took me to get out there commercially with my fuel costing much less than the tickets.
I was pleased with Nick Syracuse of Inside Out Aviation after the prebuy. It was of great value for me to be at the airport participating. But I really wanted to hold off on talking about him until the plane was done with its first condition inspection. Now that point has been reached and I wanted to share. I'm happy that I chose Nick for the prebuy and first condition inspection. Thank you Nick!
Inside Out Aviation
www.insideoutaviation.com
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