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Extended range fuel tanks

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PilotjohnS

Well Known Member
There is an advertiser on VAF offering extended range fuel tanks for the RV9/7 series aircraft. It mounts behind the seats.
My question is how would one use this?

I can see it might be used as a header tank with a separate fuel pump to transfer fuel from a main tank into this header tank, and then back to refill the main when needed. So that way, the fuel system mods are pretty close to stock Vans; only need a T in one line from one side.

Just curious, how would you incorporate this extra fuel tank in your plane?
 
I think it comes down to how you plan to use it. Is it a one off or rarely used ferry tank or do you want to use it regularly to extend range or tanker (ie every time you fill up)?

If it was me and it was a permanent fixture I’d plumb it to a 3 way fuel selector instead of a 2 way fuel selector - and put an external gas cap if possible.
No extra pumps or possibility of the empty tank plumbed into the feeding tank supply line siphoning air via a T etc.
 
I'm in the process of incorporating one of these into my 9A based on suggestions others have made here. I think the 9 is just a little light on fuel for realistic at-my-endurance trips with headwinds and the need for IFR alternate and good safety margin.

I put extra ports in the tanks when I built them for return lines and/or aux tanks, and I installed extra switched Powerlet outlets behind each seat for pumps (and heated clothing). Aux tank goes behind the pilot seat, plumbed via a small Facet pump to the left tank return port, and I'll transfer fuel to the left tank once I've burned down ~8 gallons. I picked up an Aux Fuel Pump Relay from Aircraft Extras that will pump down until the tank is empty (using a sensor) and then shut off. Fill (carefully) through the gas cap on the top of the tank (this will be a pilot only operation, not a line service tech), vent line will go out the side of the fuselage.

It's my winter project while the weather is crummy to finish the install, so won't know how well it all works until then.
 
noahhl said:
I'm in the process of incorporating one of these into my 9A based on suggestions others have made here. I think the 9 is just a little light on fuel for realistic at-my-endurance trips with headwinds and the need for IFR alternate and good safety margin.

I put extra ports in the tanks when I built them for return lines and/or aux tanks, and I installed extra switched Powerlet outlets behind each seat for pumps (and heated clothing). Aux tank goes behind the pilot seat, plumbed via a small Facet pump to the left tank return port, and I'll transfer fuel to the left tank once I've burned down ~8 gallons. I picked up an Aux Fuel Pump Relay from Aircraft Extras that will pump down until the tank is empty (using a sensor) and then shut off. Fill (carefully) through the gas cap on the top of the tank (this will be a pilot only operation, not a line service tech), vent line will go out the side of the fuselage.

It's my winter project while the weather is crummy to finish the install, so won't know how well it all works until then.
Click to expand...
I like your concept. But was curious how I can change it to avoid fueling in the cockpit. And the only way I came up with is to pump fuel into the extra tank from left wing tank when the right tank is providing fuel to engine. But the downfall of this is that I could not fill up all tanks after a long cross country, i would need to fill mains, transfer fuel to header, then refill mains. Would require a little planning and would not allow consecutive long flights.

It is interesting to note, the facet pumps can be used to feed the main fuel injection fuel pump. As long as the facet pump has more flow than the FI pump; the facet pump doesnt to put out the require FI fuel presssure , just the flow.
 
PilotjohnS said:
I like your concept. But was curious how I can change it to avoid fueling in the cockpit. And the only way I came up with is to pump fuel into the extra tank from left wing tank when the right tank is providing fuel to engine. But the downfall of this is that I could not fill up all tanks after a long cross country, i would need to fill mains, transfer fuel to header, then refill mains. Would require a little planning and would not allow consecutive long flights.
Click to expand...
I strongly considered doing a two way pump to fill the aux tank via transfer from one of the mains vs directly filling (as suggested by many for smoke systems). What scared me away was the transfer time -- I'm expecting it to take 20-30 minutes to fill/empty the tank via a Facet pump, and that's a long time running on battery on the ground to fill it, then I need the fuel truck back, etc. Also considered a filler neck to an external port, but the geometry really isn't there for that -- the tank is barely below the start of the rear window, so I'd need the filler neck to be in the plexi to work.

We'll see how it ends up going. Departing from home I have ethanol free gas available at the station across the street, so I may end up mostly doing that in the aux tank and filling via gas can (where I can be absolutely sure I'm not going to overflow).
 
PilotjohnS said:
There is an advertiser on VAF offering extended range fuel tanks for the RV9/7 series aircraft. It mounts behind the seats.
My question is how would one use this?

I can see it might be used as a header tank with a separate fuel pump to transfer fuel from a main tank into this header tank, and then back to refill the main when needed. So that way, the fuel system mods are pretty close to stock Vans; only need a T in one line from one side.

Just curious, how would you incorporate this extra fuel tank in your plane?
Click to expand...
Are you building a seven or a nine? If you're building a seven I have information on auxiliary fuel tanks which mount in the wings.
 
For over 10 years, I have had two 7.5 gallon tanks behind my seats in a 6. They were supplies by Marvin (original SSH owner) and I helped with the "design". They would fit a 6, 7, or 9. Tipup or slider.

I can configure one or both for fuel or smoke oil or one each. I have successfully tested all configure and did a video about 10 years ago.

My hookup simple.
For smoke oil, the pump is mounted via angle attached with the screws on the flap motor housing.
For fuel, the line is routed to the PLUGGED tap on the old school Van's fuel selector.
Left is left tank, Middle is "middle of the plane (aux) tank(s)" and right is right tank.

Operation is takeoff as normal. After about 15 minutes, level flight, switch to aux tank. Run for 45 minutes assuming about 10 gallons per hour on one 7.5 gallon tank. Switch bak to regular tanks at 30 minutes tanks changes.

The tanks are each vented.

Yes, as someone else mentioned, the tank filling is a PILOT ONLY (ME) operation.

If you want other info, contact me "offline".
 
jclark said:
For over 10 years, I have had two 7.5 gallon tanks behind my seats in a 6. They were supplies by Marvin (original SSH owner) and I helped with the "design". They would fit a 6, 7, or 9. Tipup or slider.

I can configure one or both for fuel or smoke oil or one each. I have successfully tested all configure and did a video about 10 years ago.

My hookup simple.
For smoke oil, the pump is mounted via angle attached with the screws on the flap motor housing.
For fuel, the line is routed to the PLUGGED tap on the old school Van's fuel selector.
Left is left tank, Middle is "middle of the plane (aux) tank(s)" and right is right tank.

Operation is takeoff as normal. After about 15 minutes, level flight, switch to aux tank. Run for 45 minutes assuming about 10 gallons per hour on one 7.5 gallon tank. Switch bak to regular tanks at 30 minutes tanks changes.

The tanks are each vented.

Yes, as someone else mentioned, the tank filling is a PILOT ONLY (ME) operation.

If you want other info, contact me "offline".
Click to expand...
We did a similar system for a client in Australia several years ago. Both tanks intended for fuel use, BUT, the right tank was also for smoke oil. YEP--so we had to have separate shutoff valves and selector valves for each operation. Was a pretty complicated set up!! We did run all the supply lines in the aft tunnel under the elevator tube. Used custom created 5052O aluminum tubes. All of this was a REAL headache--considering we didnt have the tanks here. YEP---the plane was in Australia. MANY emails and phone calls back and forth. BUT--we got it done. UHHHH---no I wouldnt want to do that again!
 
jclark said:
For over 10 years, I have had two 7.5 gallon tanks behind my seats in a 6. They were supplies by Marvin (original SSH owner) and I helped with the "design". They would fit a 6, 7, or 9. Tipup or slider.

I can configure one or both for fuel or smoke oil or one each. I have successfully tested all configure and did a video about 10 years ago.

My hookup simple.
For smoke oil, the pump is mounted via angle attached with the screws on the flap motor housing.
For fuel, the line is routed to the PLUGGED tap on the old school Van's fuel selector.
Left is left tank, Middle is "middle of the plane (aux) tank(s)" and right is right tank.

Operation is takeoff as normal. After about 15 minutes, level flight, switch to aux tank. Run for 45 minutes assuming about 10 gallons per hour on one 7.5 gallon tank. Switch bak to regular tanks at 30 minutes tanks changes.

The tanks are each vented.

Yes, as someone else mentioned, the tank filling is a PILOT ONLY (ME) operation.

If you want other info, contact me "offline".
Click to expand...
Another option...

I've got this same pair of tanks, and I'm running an Andair fuel valve (no third plugged port) with returns to the selected tank. I tapped into the return line for the right tank and put a Tee in there, so I can use the Facet pump to move fuel from the seat-back tanks into the return line which is routed to the right wing tank, letting me transfer the fuel from the fuse tanks direct to the right wing, and burn it from the wings as normal.

Just take care not to transfer fuel until you've got enough airspace in the tank to accept it, otherwise you'll just pump it out the vent line.
 
James, I sent you a DM.
I'm looking for this option to do a non-stop from Miami to MDPP, Puerto Plata DR. It's close to a 4 hour flight & 7.5 gals gives me an extra comfort layer.
Talking to Bahamas custom, they now charge a $150 fee for arrival/departure, even though I had only planned on a refueling stop. Round trip, $300. This ER tank will pay for itself quickly.
 
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roadrunner20 said:
James, I sent you a DM.
I'm looking for this option to do a non-stop from Miami to MDPP, Puerto Plata DR. It's close to a 4 hour flight & 7.5 gals gives me an extra comfort layer.
Talking to Bahamas custom, they now charge a $150 fee for arrival/departure, even though I had only planned on a refueling stop. Round trip, $300. This ER tank will pay for itself quickly.
Click to expand...
I built a Glasair with this mission in mind when I was sailing the British Virgin Islands on vacations. I figured the real value of Miami to Puerto Rico was avoiding Customs twice. Bahama Customs was very friendly (and now expensive) but if you stop you now also have to deal with USA Customs upon arrival in Puerto Rico. No Customs required Florida to Puerto Rico although not true the other direction. USA Customs in either Puerto Rico or Florida is always a patience testing exercise. Overflying will save time, money and aggravation. Always bothered me that coming in to the county where I was born, am a citizen, and paid taxes all my life is harder than any foreign country I ever visited but that has been my experience.
 
A customs stop coming into Florida from Puerto Rico is required? That just does not compute for me...
 
airguy said:
A customs stop coming into Florida from Puerto Rico is required? That just does not compute for me...
Click to expand...
I was initially surprised as well but the reason is because you are coming from a territory/possession to the mainland according to the regulation.
 
Skysailor said:
I was initially surprised as well but the reason is because you are coming from a territory/possession to the mainland according to the regulation.
Click to expand...
What makes that different than coming from Alaska or Hawaii I wonder...
 
Just completed the install of this ER Tank. I had to do a few modifications to make it work, otherwise, I'm very happy with the outcome. The tank is very well made.
1. Added some angle to the forward foot blades to make it more stable & less lightly to cut into the floor panel.
2. Added an angle with an extension from the tank forward support brace to my seat crossbrace. The tank sat lower than the crossbrace.
3. I plumbed the fuel line from the left side to beneath the floor, direct in line to my fuel selector valve. Now I have Left/Right/ER Tank.
4. Added a fuel line sight hose on the right side. During preflight, I can do I quick visual from the outside or inside.

I did some ground testing today & will go test in flight this weekend when my airport opens. They are installing new taxi lights & approach systems.

Thanks to James Clark for his guidance & insight into his setup.

Looking forward to doing some long cross country flights. Oh, I bought a new pee bottle to celebrate.:unsure:
 
dmattmul said:
Contemplated ER tanks but wife said NW. Can't afford the hobby and splitting assets. Decided landing every 2 - 3 hrs. a better ROI. ;)
Click to expand...
Yeah, I get it. My mission was to go from Miami to Dominican Republic without a Bahamas fuel stop. Now, I can go non-stop to New England to visit family & to RIPON with a good reserve.
 
roadrunner20 said:
Just completed the install of this ER Tank. I had to do a few modifications to make it work, otherwise, I'm very happy with the outcome. The tank is very well made.
1. Added some angle to the forward foot blades to make it more stable & less lightly to cut into the floor panel.
2. Added an angle with an extension from the tank forward support brace to my seat crossbrace. The tank sat lower than the crossbrace.
3. I plumbed the fuel line from the left side to beneath the floor, direct in line to my fuel selector valve. Now I have Left/Right/ER Tank.
4. Added a fuel line sight hose on the right side. During preflight, I can do I quick visual from the outside or inside.

I did some ground testing today & will go test in flight this weekend when my airport opens. They are installing new taxi lights & approach systems.

Thanks to James Clark for his guidance & insight into his setup.

Looking forward to doing some long cross country flights. Oh, I bought a new pee bottle to celebrate.:unsure:
Click to expand...
can you post a picture of how it mounts?
 
jclark said:
For over 10 years, I have had two 7.5 gallon tanks behind my seats in a 6. They were supplies by Marvin (original SSH owner) and I helped with the "design". They would fit a 6, 7, or 9. Tipup or slider.

I can configure one or both for fuel or smoke oil or one each. I have successfully tested all configure and did a video about 10 years ago.

My hookup simple.
For smoke oil, the pump is mounted via angle attached with the screws on the flap motor housing.
For fuel, the line is routed to the PLUGGED tap on the old school Van's fuel selector.
Left is left tank, Middle is "middle of the plane (aux) tank(s)" and right is right tank.

Operation is takeoff as normal. After about 15 minutes, level flight, switch to aux tank. Run for 45 minutes assuming about 10 gallons per hour on one 7.5 gallon tank. Switch bak to regular tanks at 30 minutes tanks changes.

The tanks are each vented.

Yes, as someone else mentioned, the tank filling is a PILOT ONLY (ME) operation.

If you want other info, contact me "offline".
Click to expand...
Do you have link to the video you did on the extended tank for the RV6?
 
I am at Airventure headed to Appleton for a commercial flight.

When I get a minute, I try to locate it.
 
I did a smoke systems helpers tank for extra fuel in my 6. I mounted it behind the co-pilot seat and put a transfer pump under the baggage floor. I ran a vent line fwd and teed that into the right tank vent. I run enough out of my wing tank that I won't be pumping overboard and start the transfer. Yup, I do have to fuel it up inside the cabin. With the supertracks on my slider and some care, I can do it without spilling. As others have mentioned, bladder range is a thing. I mostly use the aux tank for tankering the cheap gas on long trips. Need to think about CG, especially with baggage. I counter the aft moment by mounting my O2 tank on a box between the rudder pedals.
Ed
20160429_191536[1].jpg20160502_205753[1].jpg
 
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