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Panel planning - ILS and VOR or not?

R

Rick RV-4

Well Known Member
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Just curious, for those in the planning stages now, how many of you are planning an IFR panel with GPS only - no ILS or VOR? Seems like more and more airports are going the GPS approach route, and when I travel by GA I often find myself at smaller airports that do not have ILS approaches. I'm doing some wiring now so I need to make some decisions.

If you did go GPS only, did you have any issues geting it certified IFR?
 
I'd recommend adding a short range navigation option to your panel. I do a lot of international flying for work, and the hot topic right now is the GPS spoofing and jamming that's taking place around eastern Europe and the middle east. I don't see any reason GPS couldn't be jammed or spoofed here in the U.S., even thought it hasn't happened yet.
 
ronrapp said:
I'd recommend adding a short range navigation option to your panel. I do a lot of international flying for work, and the hot topic right now is the GPS spoofing and jamming that's taking place around eastern Europe and the middle east. I don't see any reason GPS couldn't be jammed or spoofed here in the U.S., even thought it hasn't happened yet.
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Meh. GA isnt airline. Dont waste the time with dinosaur technology for some remote chance gps is unavailable. Gps only is just fine.
 
I have a GPS only IFR panel. My backup plan if the GPS is fully jammed is to contact ATC and request vectors to an airport with a surveillance radar and hope they will descend me below clouds for a VFR landing. I believe the autopilot will still fly fine in heading mode without the GPS signal, but I have not tested that yet.
 
Quotafiller said:
Meh. GA isnt airline. Dont waste the time with dinosaur technology for some remote chance gps is unavailable. Gps only is just fine.
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That's what I did. 2 Dynon HDX, one Garmin GPS 175. Haven't missed VHF nav one bit. Have flown several IFR flights and everywhere I've gone I've had GPS mins equivalent to VOR/ILS.

WRT spoofing, GPS outages, or my sole IFR navigator failing etc. while in IMC, although a very low possibility, I carry enough fuel to be able to depart from my route of flight at any point and fly to an area (dead reckoning, ATC vectors, etc.) that I know I can descend thru clouds to at least basic VFR weather (better than 1000/3). If it's totally socked-in inside of my fuel range, I wait and go later.

David - Aged 62 :ROFLMAO:
 
Quotafiller said:
Meh. GA isnt airline. Dont waste the time with dinosaur technology for some remote chance gps is unavailable. Gps only is just fine.
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Until….it actually happens to you. I was flying right seat in vmc for the left seat pilot under the hood (172) shooting the LPV approach into KLVK. About 8 miles out I noticed the 650 go from green LPV to yellow LNAV. A minute later, the pilot says, ‘I don’t think the glide slope is working’. I point to the red flag on the cdi, and say, ‘Maybe that’s why it’s flagged.’ I point to the yellow LNAV indicator, and suggest that maybe he should level out as we’re about to descend below LNAV minimums. A minute after that, a big red X appears on the 650, all gps lost. Left seat says, ‘now what?’ I say, airport in sight, we land. Post-flight discussion: What if it had been IMC? Even though the 650 and KLVK have an ILS, he wasn’t set up or prepared to use it at short notice. KLVK is surrounded by a lot of high terrain. Would he attempt to dead-reckon to the low point the MAP takes you thru? Could the tower (which has a remoted radar screen, useful once about 1000’ agl) help? Or is it a better plan to declare an emergency, do a 180, get the localizer up and fly it outbound?
I do have an SL30 (great nav-com) in my RV. If I were doing it again, I might consider saving a few dollars and going without it. But you have to think, ahead of time, what you’ll do if gps goes down.
PS Our only guess as to what happened was that a trucker going down the interstate was using a jammer.
 
Wasn't long ago DFW area had a GPS outage that lasted I think 2 days, this was a year or 2 ago so don't recall all the specifics.
Made me glad I installed VOR/ILS, so yes it can happen. I'd hate to be in the soup with no way down!
 
What kind of IFR flying do you plan to do and how much. If it’s just an occasional approach to punch through a cloud layer then don’t spend the extra money. There have been a few times an ILS 200 foot min got me in when a GPS approach would not work. So it’s worth having both options for me. You don't need an audio panel with a marker beacon so the extra money is for a GTX 650 or equivalent and an antenna.
 
Walt said:
Wasn't long ago DFW area had a GPS outage that lasted I think 2 days, this was a year or 2 ago so don't recall all the specifics.
Made me glad I installed VOR/ILS, so yes it can happen. I'd hate to be in the soup with no way down!
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Well said Walt and BobTurner.

October 2022 to be exact. Shut down all GPS ops, including RNAV departures/arrivals/approaches at the air carrier airports in the vicinity if I remember right. I was airborne on an IFR flight plan in our Cessna on a personal cross country in the area that day, and ATC was also expressing comments about why ADSB/WAAS etc was not working on their radar in addition to accommodating the widespread GPS outage.

In my professional flying life, I have more than once experienced actual GPS outages for various external reasons when flying domestically, requiring alternative navigation sources. And where I live, there are frequent GPS outages notam'd affecting our area due to military ops, although to be sure they do not always actually shut down GPS usage.

Probably not a big deal if you only fly VFR, and are an occasional flyer. Or are willing to accept the risk of an actual GPS failure in actual IMC on an approach, and have a plan. But if planning for serious and frequent IFR work, maybe think again.

Based on my experience, I put VOR/ILS capability in my RV-7 panel.

But it is an entirely personal choice everyone has to make for themselves after fully acknowledging that GPS can and does fail.
 
Striking a good balance between redundancy and simplification, we went with a 650. Theory is, if GPS is down, the 650 will be VOR/ILS. And if the 650 is down, we can fly an emergency GPS non-precision approach with the G3X.
 
jjb said:
I have more than once experienced actual GPS outages for various external reasons when flying domestically, requiring alternative navigation sources.
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Indeed. And there can also be internal reasons. A recent failure of my GA-35 antenna successfully jammed all my other GPS receivers. I didn’t need the nav radio, but if the weather had been bad I would have.

That experience changed my perspective a bit. For my kind of IFR flying, and the places I frequent, if I were building a panel from scratch I’d prefer a panel nav/comm along with an IFR GPS. But I’d probably feel reasonably okay with IFR GPS plus a handheld radio with nav capability. And in any event, I’d definitely prioritize an autopilot ahead of ANY kind of nav radio capability.
 
BobTurner said:
SL30 (great nav-com)
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These are awesome radios, as anything by Apollo (eg. CNX80 aka Garmin 480, which imo beats hands down 430 and 530). But they are getting old now.
GNC 215 looks good for a brand new panel install, if one really needs a NAV radio.
 
ve0kog said:
These are awesome radios, as anything by Apollo (eg. CNX80 aka Garmin 480, which imo beats hands down 430 and 530). But they are getting old now.
GNC 215 looks good for a brand new panel install, if one really needs a NAV radio.
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Yes, I agree. [sorry for the thread drift]. As LOMs, MB's disappear, even shooting an ILS without a gps is becoming harder (Here at LVK you need a DME. Who installs them anymore?). But nearby KSCK has an ILS with a VOR cross radial identifying the FAF and also used for the Missed approach procedure. And a single SL-30 is all you need. It can display the localizer/GS in the usual fashion on my GRT HX HSI display, while simultaneously showing the bearing to/from the VOR as an RMI needle.
 
Question for all you folks flying down in the states. Do you not require two sources of Navigation data to fly IFR? In Canada with the failure of one Nav system, we need to be able to fly an alternate IFR approach with a working system.

I ask because I see one of you has a sole IFR GPS with no back up and didn't know how that would get certified for IFR.

Full disclosure, I am a timid soul and have an GPS/NAV/COM as well as a separate NAV/COM.
 
Here my question. Doesn’t the bi-annual IPC require two non-precision approaches and one precision approach? LPV, LNAV & VNAV are (I thought) non-precision approaches and while an LPV can have 200’ DA, it still isn’t a precision approach. Therefore I’m thinking flying an aircraft without ILS capability wouldn’t qualify for the IPC check in my opinion. However it has been a very long time since I had “instructor or check pilot” associated with my flying- and that was as a military pilot therefore I’m as likely wrong as right.

Being old school, I sure like the backup ability to fly Victor airways, VOR and ILS approaches if for some reason the gps system goes tango uniform. My two cents and it’s probably not worth that.
 
In 2013 the FAA revised the Instrument Rating ACS to fully integrate WAAS-enabled GPS as a suitable substitute for traditional navaids in many situations including for IPCs and instrument checks, as long as the aircraft was properly equipped.

In 2016 they officially recognized LPV approaches as an acceptable substitute for precision approaches, formalizing GPS as a fully viable substitute for traditional ILS. This meant an IPC or IFR Checkride could be performed in a GPS-only aircraft with WAAS, fulfilling both precision and non-precision approach requirements.
 
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Roo747 said:
Question for all you folks flying down in the states. Do you not require two sources of Navigation data to fly IFR? In Canada with the failure of one Nav system, we need to be able to fly an alternate IFR approach with a working system.
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Short answer: ‘no’. This is a Canadian rule, not US. (If anyone in the US is still flying with a non-WAAS gps (obviously non-precision approaches only) then yes, they must also have a nav radio)
 
Tankerpilot75 said:
Here my question. Doesn’t the bi-annual IPC require two non-precision approaches and one precision approach? LPV, LNAV & VNAV are (I thought) non-precision approaches and while an LPV can have 200’ DA, it still isn’t a precision approach. Therefore I’m thinking flying an aircraft without ILS capability wouldn’t qualify for the IPC check in my opinion. However it has been a very long time since I had “instructor or check pilot” associated with my flying- and that was as a military pilot therefore I’m as likely wrong as right.

Being old school, I sure like the backup ability to fly Victor airways, VOR and ILS approaches if for some reason the gps system goes tango uniform. My two cents and it’s probably not worth that.
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Of course you don’t ever need an IPC if you stay current with 6 approaches every 6 months. And there are no specifications as to the type of approaches for this, e.g., they could all be LNAV into 1000-3. As stated above, the FAA re-interpreted the rules a few years back. An LPV to 300’ or lower can be used in place of a precision approach. Lpv to higher than 300’ can be used as a non precision approach. And LNAV and LNAV to circle to land now are two different kinds of approaches.
 
Rick RV-4 said:
Just curious, for those in the planning stages now, how many of you are planning an IFR panel with GPS only - no ILS or VOR? Seems like more and more airports are going the GPS approach route, and when I travel by GA I often find myself at smaller airports that do not have ILS approaches. I'm doing some wiring now so I need to make some decisions.

If you did go GPS only, did you have any issues geting it certified IFR?
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How much do you save by going in this direction? Both initial capital and reoccurring costs?
 
Consider the MON vs your personal IFR wx mins.

"Concept of Operation
The VOR MON is designed to enable aircraft, having lost GPS service, to revert to conventional navigation procedures. This will allow users to continue through the outage area using VOR station-to-station navigation or to proceed to a MON airport where an Instrument Landing System (ILS), Localizer (LOC) or VOR approach procedure can be flown without the necessity of GPS, Distance Measuring Equipment (DME), Automatic Direction Finder (ADF), or surveillance. Any airport with a suitable instrument approach may be used for landing, but the VOR MON assures that at least one airport will be within 100 Nautical Miles (NM).

In order to enable VOR station-to-station navigation, two new geometrically larger VOR Standard Service Volumes (SSVs) are being implemented to provide VOR signal starting at 5,000 feet Above Ground Level (AGL). Coverage will exist but may not be continuous at lower altitudes."

On IFR low altitude enroute charts, the symbol for a Minimum Operational Network (MON) airport is the text "MON" in green on a background

 
Regarding GPS dependability and the potential of needing an alternative. The GPS satellites are owned & operated by and primarily for the Department of Defense and occasionally they decide with and without notice to the rest of us hitchhikers to shut down portions of it . So when they decide to pick up their ball (GPS) and go home,it’s mighty nice if you have a spare ball ( old school nav radio) so you can finish the game.
 
It may depend somewhat on where and in what Wx conditions you plan to fly.

I haven’t experienced spoofing, but in the southwest, NOTAMs for GPS outages are pretty common. The radius from the central jamming point is often several hundred nm. Just because there is a NOTAM doesn’t mean there will be an actual outage, but sometimes there is one. When that happens in IMC, having “antiquated technology” onboard, and being proficient in its use, is pretty nice. YMMV.
 
Rick RV-4 said:
If you did go GPS only, did you have any issues geting it certified IFR?
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I didn’t see any answers for you. Assuming you’re in the US, flying an EAB, all you need is a TSO’d GPS (I forget the tso # - 145??) and make sure your Op Limits say ‘IFR allowed if equipped per FAR 91.205’.
 
Great discussion guys. I thought about the ASR and PAR options as a backup (I taught students how to fly those for 18 years in the military). The Navy controllers were usually pretty good. The rest were hit or miss.

I also talked to the folks doing the panel today and they talked me into having the ILS option. Installing the extra antenna is not that much extra work and the extra expense seems worth it for peace of mind.

Thanks for all of the inputs.
 
ve0kog said:
These are awesome radios, as anything by Apollo (eg. CNX80 aka Garmin 480, which imo beats hands down 430 and 530). But they are getting old now.
GNC 215 looks good for a brand new panel install, if one really needs a NAV radio.
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The Garmin follow on to the SL30 is the GNC255 and now the new GNC215 Single radio with one COMM transmitter and two receivers, single NAV receiver with VOR/ILS/LOC that can be displayed on most EFIS. You could even fly a LOC or VOR approach with the built in OBS display. I've got GNC255 paired up with an Archer antenna in the wingtip and can easily get accurate VOR information in the 100nm range depending on altitude obviously. I've had an ILS display in my old Dynon Flightdek180 and now my new Dynon HDX off of this NAV/COMM. Very simple wiring interface and nice to have when flying hard IFR. GPS is nice until it stops working which happens more often than you think. Flip side is there are less and less ILS and VOR approaches available these days and a whole lot more GPS approaches. According to the FAA Minimum Operating Network, 590 VOR's will remain operational to provide continued navigation via VOR, ILS or LOC in the event of lost GPS. So you have to decide what your mission is going to be. If you're flying IFR all the time to many different airports, GPS may be the way to go. If you're flying IFR occasionally and need it as a backup to get to your destination then a VOR/ILS receiver might be your best choice. No database to update or keep current either as opposed to GPS.
 
I've been hearing that VOR's and the ILS system are going to go away for 30+ years. They're still here and with recent (although rare) issues with GPS they will probably stay...so yes, I put an Archer antenna in each wingtip. A couple hundred bucks, and if you've done it before, only about an evening of work. Adds about 2 lbs to the airplane (mostly because of the RG-400 cable).

An ounce 32 ounces of prevention.....
 
Reflex said:
I've been hearing that VOR's and the ILS system are going to go away for 30+ years. They're still here and with recent (although rare) issues with GPS they will probably stay...so yes, I put an Archer antenna in each wingtip. A couple hundred bucks, and if you've done it before, only about an evening of work. Adds about 2 lbs to the airplane (mostly because of the RG-400 cable).

An ounce 32 ounces of prevention.....
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Yeah, the Archer works great and is simple and cheap!
 
FAA spent a lot of effort on the VOR MON. They wouldn’t have done it if there was not a significant threat to the NAS due to GPS outage.

Significant to you is relative to the mission and accepted level of risk. Which is entirely different from what significant means to the FAA

Until the FAA has an either1) another redundant system or 2) GPS reliability reaches an acceptable level of uninterrupted usage there will be VORs and ILS.

Whether or not you need them is up to you. I wouldn’t base a decision not to install on “they’re going away” (unless you know what new system will replace it and timeline for implementation from the FAA and add 20 years for good measure #ads-b_implementation ) but rather a decision based on known accepted risk.

I’m installing dual 430s. I’ll have both types of NAV. I don’t plan to launch in bad weather or to arrive in low forecast conditions. It may happen that things change. I’ve put that into my mitigation strategy and have designed accordingly.

Make your own assessment and install accordingly.
 
Opinion: Worth the time and money to have VHF nav onboard a plane that will travel/train in IFR. Remember, simply having an expired GPS database will ground you for IFR with no VHF nav. VHF nav is always current. Even if, as mentioned above, GPS is inop for some reason.
Im building a tailwheel for local/backcountry VFR only and have GPS only. But to travel, not having VHF nav is bound to leave you disappointed.
 
mikerkba said:
Opinion: Worth the time and money to have VHF nav onboard a plane that will travel/train in IFR. Remember, simply having an expired GPS database will ground you for IFR with no VHF nav. VHF nav is always current. Even if, as mentioned above, GPS is inop for some reason.
Im building a tailwheel for local/backcountry VFR only and have GPS only. But to travel, not having VHF nav is bound to leave you disappointed.
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Well, strictly speaking, the 30 day VOR check for ifr is still the law, so your vor may or may not be current…
 
BobTurner said:
Well, strictly speaking, the 30 day VOR check for ifr is still the law, so your vor may or may not be cu
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Good point, unless you have a VOT at home base. There are two ground VOR checks in all of Nevada. One VOR test site and one VOT. The VOT test site is at my home base of Ely.
 
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age 63… installed Garmin 175 for gps (rnav) IFR capability. Personal minimum for IFR is 1,2,3 for departure and destination airports or we don’t fly. GPS jamming is a non-issue as I don’t "have" to fly anywhere/anytime.
 
Biggiesauls said:
age 63… installed Garmin 175 for gps (rnav) IFR capability. Personal minimum for IFR is 1,2,3 for departure and destination airports or we don’t fly. GPS jamming is a non-issue as I don’t "have" to fly anywhere/anytime.
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The problem is unforecast GPS degradation for a variety of reasons can happen after you are in the air. That could be bad juju if it happens and you’re IMC with no other options.

As I have posted in numerous threads I’m also a firm believer in having VORLOC/GS and GPS in the panel.
 
mikerkba said:
Remember, simply having an expired GPS database will ground you for IFR with no VHF nav.
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Per the AIM, you can fly enroute and terminal IFR with an expired database if you verify that the waypoints on your route have not changed. But IFR approach procedures are restricted without a current DB.

For what it's worth, I've also experienced a current but corrupted database that precluded navigating via GPS. That was on a Gulfstream, but I see no reason it couldn't happen with one of the IFR navigators we utilize in our RVs.

--Ron
 
BobTurner said:
Do you have two nav receivers, and didn’t want to use a splitter?
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Bob,

No, I don't have two nav receivers and I don't have a splitter. While I have an Archer antenna in each wingtip, only 1 is used. My reasons for this are:

1) When I installed them I didn't realize that I needed a second receiver
2) They are light, easy to install, and inexpensive so I figured why not do it now
3) With the magnetometer and other "stuff" in the tip(s), one side may not work as will as I want. I can easily move or swap the wires on the receiver.
4) I may want to add a second nav receiver in the future.

Fred
 
Auburntsts said:
The problem is unforecast GPS degradation for a variety of reasons can happen after you are in the air. That could be bad juju if it happens and you’re IMC with no other options.

As I have posted in numerous threads I’m also a firm believer in having VORLOC/GS and GPS in the panel.
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I probably have spent more than an average amount of time investigating issues related to GPS reception, and I concur with the above philosophy, for aircraft that are intended to be flown in IMC. To help students visualize how GPS works, I have them imagine trying to see a light bulb ten thousand miles away - frankly it's amazing that it works at all! It doesn't take much to disrupt such a small signal, so it's real nice to have a low-tech WWII technology option in your back pocket. Personal opinion only, your mileage may vary.
 
It’s doesn’t have to be something drastic like spoofing or jamming to kill the GPS signal - it can be something simple and internal like an antenna failure:

There was a recent thread on this but can’t find it. Only found this one:

Garmin GA-35 Antenna Hard Failure In-Flight

I know there have been reports of this previously, but yesterday returning from Kansas City and about 20 miles from home, my Garmin GNS480 with GA-35 antenna suddenly lost GPS navigation integrity. The signal status page showed zero signal on any satellite, which has never happened before. At...
vansairforce.net
 
I installed a GTN650 and an archer antenna. I wouldn't even consider flying in actual without either a second independent nav source or an escape plan; like for example if the ceiling is high enough I'm confident I would break out above the MSA.

It doesn't escape my notice that if my GTN650 tanks I've lost both my IFR GPS and my ability to shoot an ILS, but thanks to a robust Garmin panel, I have two other non-certified GPS units in the plane. If the worst happened, I'd either go somewhere with better weather or if that wasn't possible, declare an emergency and take vectors to final then fly the visual reference approach on one of those.

I'm 58 and have been flying long enough that I realize pretty much any magic box can fail. My first experience with something like that was setting up for an ILS approach in a Baron about 30 years ago when the tuning knob on Nav 1 came off in my hand.

Something nobody has mentioned yet- If you're vectors to final, Approach is able to turn you in closer on a ILS than on an LPV. I don't recall the details, but there was an article on it a while back in one of the magazines.
 
TASEsq said:
There was a recent thread on this but can’t find it.
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It was me. My GA35 recently failed and jammed all my other GPSs. Apparently this is a Known Thing, although I had never heard of it happening. Worst antenna failure mode ever! 🤣
 
When I was working on the IFR ticket in 2021/22, I ran into numerous failures related to VHF NAV. The VOR and ILS were often NOTAMed out, and we also had regular internal antenna and receiver failures in the airplane (they were the older spam cans). Navigating using VHF was consistently a hit or miss, even when we managed to figure out a realistic IFR VHF route that was supposed to be available. You'd have to pay close attention to the reception altitudes and changeover points, but a in some cases the charts didn't reflect the real world reception quality. The VOR "cone of confusion" was the least of our problems.

For the ILS approaches sometimes the ATC would vector us away from the feeder route and then give a "direct to" an IAF. But you could not possibly find the fix without some sort of GPS assistance (cheating with the iPad/foreflight was handy in this case)!

VHF NAV was fun as a learning experience, but for real navigation or even as a backup—no thanks 😅.
sincerely, a young pup (48).
 
When flying in the weather, it seems like I get "expect the ILS-XX" from approach more often than not. If the weather is good enough for a visual, it seems they'll ask which approach would you like. If the airport is IMC and there's commercial traffic, they're all on the ILS, so maybe it's easier for ATC to keep it consistent when the flight plan lists the VHF equipment onboard. Could be just my perception, but it seems like the ILS is still the "standard" approach here in the US for towered airports. I'd feel a bit naked without it...😳
 
Paddy said:
When flying in the weather, it seems like I get "expect the ILS-XX" from approach more often than not. If the weather is good enough for a visual, it seems they'll ask which approach would you like. If the airport is IMC and there's commercial traffic, they're all on the ILS, so maybe it's easier for ATC to keep it consistent when the flight plan lists the VHF equipment onboard. Could be just my perception, but it seems like the ILS is still the "standard" approach here in the US for towered airports. I'd feel a bit naked without it...😳
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I’d say it is the exact opposite for a busy class C and B in this area. They are all about the RNAV approaches for all the airliners.
 
Paddy said:
When flying in the weather, it seems like I get "expect the ILS-XX" from approach more often than not. If the weather is good enough for a visual, it seems they'll ask which approach would you like. If the airport is IMC and there's commercial traffic, they're all on the ILS, so maybe it's easier for ATC to keep it consistent when the flight plan lists the VHF equipment onboard. Could be just my perception, but it seems like the ILS is still the "standard" approach here in the US for towered airports. I'd feel a bit naked without it...😳
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Just remember, ask for what you want, you'll almost certainly get an RNAV to the same runway actively using ILS.
 
Up to you. You are a Instrument Pilot. Are you active GA IFR?
How many airports can you land at with just a VOR? Just ILS (with no DME)? With LPV RNAV GPS?

The answer is VOR few and less everyday. The FAA will always keep a few for MON (Min Operational Navigation).
Even airways are going from Victor to "T" or Tango airways (GPS based). It does not matter you can sub a GPS for DME and VOR.
Just lost another VOR in July and airway went from Victor to Tango with a new waypoint over where the VOR is / was.

ILS? I have a soft spot for ILS. So familiar no GPS or data base, but you will notice many require DME (or RADAR) as well (due to MB/NDB/LOM going away)
As stated if you have a GPS, TSO certified for terminal/approaches GPS can sub for DME.
If you fly for airlines ILS is still king for a few reasons.*

LPV. Every airport has LP or LPV RNAV GPS approach. Many airports that is only approach.
Ones with VOR/LOC and ILS almost always also have a LP/LPV in my experience and area.

I only have a Garmin GPS 175. No VOR/LOC/GS/MB/ADF/DME... I can do LP and LPV and enroute.
If you are going to train in your RV than get VOR/LOC is needed. You don't need ILS (GS) for training/check ride. LPV is a substitute for a ILS precision approach for training/check ride ONLY. However out in the wild, for filing, alternates, etc. LPV is considered a non precision.

Mins? Yes LPV can be 200-1/2 and I have one at nearby airport. My airport is about 300-1. Is that going to make a difference. I pick the WX I fly in.
Also ILS has one trick up it's sleeve.*

* ILS Cat 1 is 200-1/2. ILS and LPV can share same landing Mins 200-1/2, but the ILS has one advantage in that FAR's, which allow pilots to go below DA with ALS only to 100 HAT. That doesn't apply to LPV. They may change that but the reason is LPV does not REQUIRE an ALS like an ILS. The "S" in ILS is for SYSTEM. Question, important, what are you doing single pilot, single engine IFR down to 200-1/2 or 100-1/2 to land?​
LPV rocks. If you can't get in with typical LPV you are doing it wrong (meaning flying in weather that is too low).​
​
One part that makes the ILS "system" is ALS. LPV does not allow the 100HAT on ALS only. One reason LPV does not have ALS requirement. May be they will change it to include LPV approaches overlaying an ILS runways with ALS. As you know you lose ALS components your ILS mins go up. LPV approaches are at mega, large, medium and small airports, but at small rural airports LP and LPV are almost exclusively only approach they have.​
​
Airlines will use ILS in part for the 100 below DA with ALS only, crew training and consistency. I do not think ILS (or VOR) will be gone for the foreseeable future. BUT an ILS is only at larger airports and LPV is EVERYWHERE ILS is and more. .​
​
Bottom line. You can get by with a RNAV GPS with Approach/Terminal TSO alone. But you can NOT get by with VOR/LOC/ILS only without GPS or DME, and even then you are limited. No LP, LPV or T airways. It really is a no brainer. One of the new fangled GTN650/750 is the full meal deal. If you can afford it and hard ball IFR dude, go for it. They are nice. If going casual occasional IFR, one of the Garmin GPS units, GPS only, GPS/COM or GPS/Transponder may be best. For me I have VOR/LOC/ILS on a hand held as a novelty.​
 
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