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Lycoming Defect....Can I fix this?

Reflex

Well Known Member
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As I get ready for my first engine start, I noticed a drop of preservative oil on the floor yesterday. I identified the source as the drain back fitting on cylinder #3. I figured I'd just remove, re-dope, and reinstall it today.

I loosened the fitting only 1 1/4 turns and it came out of the hole. The was no dope on the outside of the fitting, but there was dope on the inside. I noticed what appeared to be signs of cross threading on the first two threads. Upon inspection of the cylinder side, it's evident that when the fitting was installed at the factory it was cross threaded.

My question is, can I just chase these threads with a 3/8" NPT tap?

Note: The engine arrived in April of 2020 so I'm out of warranty.

Pictures below:

Pic 1.png

Pic 2.jpg

Pic 3.jpg
 
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I would do what you are suggesting. The only caution is that a standard NPT tap may be too long. Have not used a lot of NPT taps.
 
Document and send your findings to Lycoming. At least you want to hear from its tech support.

I had an auto plug adapter that was crossed threaded too. With the ultra slow speed of manufacturing, you think Lycoming at least get the threading correct. Anyway, the warranty coverage and processing were so onerous that I just said F it and purchase new adapters from Aircraft Spruce.

You want something that costs more than a family car to be made better but . . .
 
Luckily this is not a high pressure port and it ought to be fixable. If this is a TB engine, reach out to Jeff he is very good to take of the customer and considering the engine has not run, it may still help especially that it does not cost them much.
 
Luckily this is not a high pressure port and it ought to be fixable. If this is a TB engine, reach out to Jeff he is very good to take of the customer and considering the engine has not run, it may still help especially that it does not cost them much.
Probably should talk to Lycoming before you do anything else…
 
Definitely talk to Lycoming first - but - there looks to be plenty of meat left in that casting to drill out and tap 1/2" instead of 3/8". It is a low pressure fitting after all.
 
Just grab a tap and go slow. Keep it square and use a little oil. the taper will find the good threads and help alignment. Remove the valve cover and flush out.
Once installed, you may never need to remove it. Use Loctite 242 and a new fitting.
 
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Just grab a tap and go slow. Keep it square and use a little oil. the taper will find the good threads and help alignment. Remove the valve cover and flush out.
Once installed, you may never need to remove it. Use Loctite 242.
What gasman says.
You would expect better from Lycoming but this is no big deal to fix.
 
What gasman says.
You would expect better from Lycoming but this is no big deal to fix.
Interesting, I have 70 hours on my new O-360, first run June 2024. #4 rocker started leaking from day one, and I have since had to replace all rocker gaskets due to leaking. All of the thin silicone gaskets that were factory installed were grossly overtorqued to the point that the gaskets split at the screw holes. Installed new REAL gaskets. Does Lycoming maybe have a quality control problem?
 
I've noted that sometime folks post an issue here, but often forget to post their solution. Even though I haven't seen this problem on the forum, I thought I'd post my solution in case anybody ever runs into the same issue.

Ultimately, the problem is solved. The solution is below.

As some suggested above, I ended up running a tap though the drain back port. Sounds easy enough...and actually it was but there was some gnashing of teeth and nervousness along the way.

First, after countless hours of working on the plane, reading, this forum, I discovered that I didn't know that an AN823-6D fitting does NOT have 3/8 x 18 NPT threads. I assumed (silly me) that the "6" in 6D meant that this is a 3/8 fitting. After a buying the wrong tap and then doing little research I found that the NPT threads on this fitting are 1/4" x 18.

I obtained a 1/4 x 18 NPT tap (not an easy local find)

The thread that was bad was at the very beginning of the port (see picture in post #1). I thought that perhaps a turn or two would straighten/cut a new thread and I'd be done. Wrong. Quite the opposite was true.

Since these are tapered threads, I ended up:
  • Pulling the valve cover (found that there is a gob of room for the tap to to run through if necessary.
  • Running the tap gently and slowly into the port. I'd remove the tap, flush the hole and the tap every 1/2-1 1/2 turns depending on "feel"
  • After each flush, I'd try to reinsert the fitting.
  • In looking down into the hole from the top (valve cover off), I noted that even at 3/4 of the way though, I still couldn't get the fitting to thread.
  • At that point I realized (hoped) that I just needed to go to the end of the existing threads for the tap to come into contact with the problem threads due to the taper.
  • Fortunately, I was right, as the tap reached the end of the existing threads, it came into contact the first couple of threads.
  • I removed the tap, flushed, the hole, and was able to get the fitting to thread nicely. With a little sealant, I was good to go. Problem solved.
A couple of notes-
When I went to reinstall the line that goes back to the case, it didn't fit properly and had to be massaged a bit. Why? It's now obvious that these lines are fabricated after the fitting is inserted into the cylinder before the drain back line is made. Just the additional two turns shortened the fitting enough that the flare nut didn't want to thread onto the fitting due to the new alignment with the now "shorter" drain back fitting.

The fitting needs to be perfectly clocked as not only does that flare nut/drain back line have to fit properly, in my case, I have a fitting for manifold pressure that comes off of the #3 cylinder that has to "fit" between t he cylinder and the drain back fitting. If not clocked perfectly, these two fitting will touch. When clocked properly, there is roughly 3/32" clearance.

Yes, I wish I had taken photos, but I didn't.

Thanks for the good input here, it's appreciated.
 
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I have found Pro seal to be an excellent semi permanent fix for such issues.
When freshly mixed, pro seal lubricates quite well. It sets much stronger than fuel lube etc.
Part of the problem with those fittings is the clocking orientation needed to align with the tubing and pro seal
will seal in any orientation even if the fitting is under torqued.
When cured, the seal can be broken quite easily but chances are you won't ever have to reopen that fitting.
Chasing the threads beforehand is obviously a very good idea
 
Glad you fought through it! Unlikely you'll ever need to do this again, but, you can grind the tap down being careful to maintain thread integrity.
Also, if your NPT fittings won’t quite clock, lube them up and work them like a tap, back and forth a 1/4 turn at a time. Each turn will gain you a little. If the fitting is way out and this doesn’t work, get a different fitting and try again. Sometimes one fitting will work and one won’t. They are all a little different I assume due to manufacturing tolerances. I have never had to compromise by gluing a fitting in.
 
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