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RV-10 door falls from sky (Texas).
- Thread starter woxofswa
- Start date
It’s the left door from a -10. Interesting that there seems to be no damage at hinge attach area.
It does look like a RV-10 door. Terrell, TX. I'll post any new news if I get it. Developing....
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Seems to be happening all around the world....
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09...ssing-fisherman-south-broulee-beach/104331030
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09...ssing-fisherman-south-broulee-beach/104331030
Brings back bad memories. Years ago I lost the pilot door on my RV-10. I was at the fuel pump when an Air National Guard C-130 that was park across the ramp from me, and pointed at me, decided to do a full power reveres thrust back taxi. The RV-10 was spun around and the pilot door (that was shut but not locked) was lifted and departed the airplane.
The door landed in the grass and had just one corner damage, but was fully servicable. The door however landed a corner on the top of the right wing and dented it. It too was fully airworthy. In the end (six months later) the Air National Guard paid for a replacement wing.
Looking at the photos I seems the hinge screws where pulled from the fiberglass. On my plane I used #10 tinnerman under the screw heads for any flush screw countersunk into fiberglass. For my incident the screws held but the hinge ears broke off. An overnight from Van’s of new hinges and the door was back. I suggest just countersinking those screws into fiberglass is not the way to go.
The experince also prompted a change to my POH. The cabin doors are alway shut and locked unless actively getting in or out of the plane, or if the plane is safely parked in the hangar. No exceptions. These doors are strong if properly locked, but very fragile otherwise.
As the photos show, both pins are out. As only a guess this could be a repeat of the door being shut but only the foward pin engaged (as in the aft part of the door was not fully shut and the pin is on the outside of the door frame). The plane takes off and the door racks enough to pull out the forward pin - and the door departs the plane.
The Plane Around cam lock prevents the door being locked without both pins engaged. I consider this system mandatory on RV-10s. https://planearound.com/shop/ols/products/new-door-180-kit
BTW - the old right wing is still in my hangar if anyone wants to come get it. No flaps, aileron or wingtip.
Carl
The door landed in the grass and had just one corner damage, but was fully servicable. The door however landed a corner on the top of the right wing and dented it. It too was fully airworthy. In the end (six months later) the Air National Guard paid for a replacement wing.
Looking at the photos I seems the hinge screws where pulled from the fiberglass. On my plane I used #10 tinnerman under the screw heads for any flush screw countersunk into fiberglass. For my incident the screws held but the hinge ears broke off. An overnight from Van’s of new hinges and the door was back. I suggest just countersinking those screws into fiberglass is not the way to go.
The experince also prompted a change to my POH. The cabin doors are alway shut and locked unless actively getting in or out of the plane, or if the plane is safely parked in the hangar. No exceptions. These doors are strong if properly locked, but very fragile otherwise.
As the photos show, both pins are out. As only a guess this could be a repeat of the door being shut but only the foward pin engaged (as in the aft part of the door was not fully shut and the pin is on the outside of the door frame). The plane takes off and the door racks enough to pull out the forward pin - and the door departs the plane.
The Plane Around cam lock prevents the door being locked without both pins engaged. I consider this system mandatory on RV-10s. https://planearound.com/shop/ols/products/new-door-180-kit
BTW - the old right wing is still in my hangar if anyone wants to come get it. No flaps, aileron or wingtip.
Carl
Photo shows it has the planearound latch.
It is still possible to have a pin extended externally with Planearound. Hard to do, but can still happen. Did on mine once. The lower door bends and you can feel a difference with the handle.
I keep the interior trim free from the rear pins so that I can still reach back and feel them before takeoff..
Your arms must be longer than mine! But if you just actually look at the aft end of the doors, the difference between pin engaged (door is flush to inner side of the door jam) and pin outside (door not pulled all the way in) is obvious. Looking is on my pre-takeoff check list, I do it every time.
I cannot tell from the photos if the plane-around latch is there. Something is. Could it be the Vans' supplied third latch, which many have criticized as junk?
Carl,
I'm intrigued by how the screws seem to have been pulled clear of the door in a vertical fashion. Is that how you see it?
In my mind I always envisioned an opened RV-10 door in flight to be loaded in some kind of shear loading at the hinge. Would be nice to get a pic of the actual aircraft and its hinge and screws if still attached.
That technique works well too. That's what I do in front. I've thought about glassing small tabs on the door and matching ones on the inside of the door frame. Paint the tabs red . If the red tabs don't touch...the door is not properly closed.
Due to the fact that my right seat is often occupied, its easier to reach behind their seat and feel the pin rather than for them to tell me what they think they see there, Yeah...I have to lean into the passenger...but it makes the passenger feel that I like them.
Looks to me it’s clearly a plane around 3rd latch.
I’d be curious to know what alerting mechanism was in place and whether it was serviceable.
My observations of my 10 with the plane around 3rd latch are
1. I can’t see how it’s possible to get only one pin in without exerting so much force to twist the door with the cam still outboard that you’d need to be outside pushing it with something jamming the rear open. I strongly suspect you would break something first (probably at the hinge joint)
2. If the pins are extended and outside the airframe the magnets wont trigger the reed switches. I could imagine a setup where it’s possible the reeds were outboard of the pins and maybe still trigger from an outside magnet.
BTW. I used 1” divynicell to tie the door skins together in a few spots around the door (in addition to the parabeam where the skins touch) while building. I figured the extra pound per door was good twist insurance.
I think the simplest answer is usually the right one. Even with all the systems in the world it’s still easy to get distracted. Mistakes happen.
Same thing happened just down the road here today. What are the odds!
Well done to both pilots for dealing with the emergency well.
I’d be curious to know what alerting mechanism was in place and whether it was serviceable.
My observations of my 10 with the plane around 3rd latch are
1. I can’t see how it’s possible to get only one pin in without exerting so much force to twist the door with the cam still outboard that you’d need to be outside pushing it with something jamming the rear open. I strongly suspect you would break something first (probably at the hinge joint)
2. If the pins are extended and outside the airframe the magnets wont trigger the reed switches. I could imagine a setup where it’s possible the reeds were outboard of the pins and maybe still trigger from an outside magnet.
BTW. I used 1” divynicell to tie the door skins together in a few spots around the door (in addition to the parabeam where the skins touch) while building. I figured the extra pound per door was good twist insurance.
I think the simplest answer is usually the right one. Even with all the systems in the world it’s still easy to get distracted. Mistakes happen.
Same thing happened just down the road here today. What are the odds!
Well done to both pilots for dealing with the emergency well.
I would have to actually push the aft corner of the door outward about an inch for that aft pin to miss the hole. Pretty sure I couldn't accomplish that with one hand and lock the door with the other.
I also physically check the each door after the runup by pushing out on the lower corner, on every flight, and if the pn isn't in the hole I also get a DOORS warning on the EFIS.
I’ve always wondered if pilots are responsible for damage caused by their blast. This is good to hear after almost getting spun around by a jet once.
Thats a bad day for someone.... The doors fit and close very well on my RV10. I always check both doors prior to departure as a checklist item and even close and latch the passengers side as well rather than having my passengers do it. The design just seems a bit fragile and I guess I don't trust others enough with them... We can still all get complacent and I would like all the safety features I can have to help ensure that I don't forget to check them and have a mishap. I have not installed the plane around center cam lock on my plane yet. I need to move forward and do this but I am not a builder and have been a little intimidated by the project. If there is anyone around 52F that has done a retro kit I would be interested in some assistance in it or atleast talking about it before taking on the project on my own.
It's not a good look for any airplane. But this sort of thing is hardly limited to E-AB aircraft. I can't tell you how many Diamond DA40 and DA42 airplanes have had a door depart in flight. The back seat door is particularly susceptible to this. A friend had the aft one go while in the pattern at SNA. I've seen Extras and Pitts lose canopies when they're not properly secured. I was out doing aerobatics one time in a Super Decathlon with a student when the upper half of th engine cowling came halfway off. Citations have been known to shed the nose baggage door if it's not close and locked. Sometimes it even results in the loss of the entire jet. I think Flying did an article about that one time. When I flew 135, we had more than one Gulfstream land with a panel door missing due to what I will charitably call a less than thorough walk-around.
The point is, it's not a hombuilt-specific issue. Any improperly secured door, hatch, panel, window, canopy, fairing, or cowling is at risk.
--Ron
Of course. You know that and I know that…you’re preaching to the choir here. But the guy on the street, even many pilots, are going to read that some guy built an airplane in his garage, and then later as he was flying along, a door fell off in flight and landed in some guy’s yard.
I hope the general public will be more concerned about doors falling off Boeing planes.
Bill Boyd
Well Known Member
Well, to be fair, that is pretty much what happened.
Registration is blocked on FrightAware, but can be found via ADS-B data websites.
The tail number reported above is blocked from public view, so the only track info that could be publicly found would be from any private ADS-B receivers in the area.
I'm sensitive to it because, for most of the decades that I've been a pilot, I did not view Experimental Aviation in a particularly favorable light. I know better now, over the last 5 years, but an episode like this would have been confirmatory of my previous bias just as I know it is confirmatory for many of my pilot friends these days.
he probably does.... but what was he gonna do? Land in the guys front yard and go pick it up? Or land at the nearest airport and hope he could find the exact spot the door floated off to?
I'td be awesome if he came into the forums and was like, "hey, ya, so can i get that back"? lol... he probably gonna get himself a full replacement, though.
Bill Boyd
Well Known Member
Looking at the door photos, I see obvious structural damage just as you would expect. I'm not sure I would want to do anything other than start over with new parts if I were in that position. Others have pointed out that the overall interior finish looks rag-tag to begin with.
[ed. Removed a sentence I felt violated the posting rules. dr]
….almost anything fiberglass can be repaired if you're determined enough.
[ed. Removed a sentence I felt violated the posting rules. dr]
….almost anything fiberglass can be repaired if you're determined enough.
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Greg Baron
Member
I utilized stiffeners on the doors along with Sean’s latches.That technique works well too. That's what I do in front. I've thought about glassing small tabs on the door and matching ones on the inside of the door frame. Paint the tabs red . If the red tabs don't touch...the door is not properly closed.
Due to the fact that my right seat is often occupied, its easier to reach behind their seat and feel the pin rather than for them to tell me what they think they see there, Yeah...I have to lean into the passenger...but it makes the passenger feel that I like them.
Attachments
‘Stuff happens’.
abcnews4.com
Tail cone believed to be from a C-17 lands in school parking lot in Hanahan
(UPDATE)– A Joint Base Charleston C-17 Globemaster III landed safely after a malfunction in flight, Joint Base officials detailed Thursday night.The crew of th
abcnews4.com
Can happen in certified planes too.
Had a conversation with an old time flight instructor who had the whole sliding canopy depart a Twin Navion, defective latch. He was very thankful it snagged on one of its rails & slid off sideways under the horiz stab per the side fuselage damage, otherwise it would have taken the vertical fin with it.
Yes...it can even happen to Boeing 737 airliners
. But in this case it happened to an Experimental airplane, thus providing confirmation of bias against "airplanes built in some guy's garage" held by at least some component of the flying and non-flying public. Not a good look.
