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Fly Q lifetime - new definition of lifetime subscription

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flysrv10

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Just got an email from Seattle Avionics that my lifetime membership will expire soon (one year) unless I choose one of their options and start paying for the subscription.

It is unfortunate that they will no longer honor their commitment.

Below is a partial email I revived with my options:

  1. All Lifetime customers can use the new FlyQ+ EFB 7.0 and later releases for 30 days.
  2. During that period, Lifetime customers can upgrade to an annual subscription with a one-time 25% discount to continue to enjoy FlyQ+ EFB 7.0 and all other future releases.
  3. In 30 days, Lifetime customers who do not move to a new annual subscription can download a forthcoming new FlyQ EFB Legacy 6.9.1 and use it for a year, after which it will be sunset. As the version number implies, FlyQ EFB Legacy is the same as FlyQ EFB 6.9.1 released in May 2024 and does not include the features or fixes in FlyQ+ EFB 7.0.
 
I got the same. I guess their definition of "lifetime" and mine differ.
Huge mistake on their part.
I intend to ask them at OSH why they are breaking the terms of the deal and why I would reward them for that. (assuming they have a booth this year)
I like the product for a few reasons. It is lagging the other EFB apps and has a few bugs, but nothing that would have caused me to jump ship until now.

I thought they were foolish to offer a lifetime subscription, but that was their decision. Honor it. And yes, I have copies of the purchase receipts saying "lifetime" as well as their welcome email and encouragements to tell all my friends about it. And a screenshot of the app page with a license expiration data of August 14, 2102.

Can you imagine if EAA cancelled all lifetime memberships?
 
I agree with your comments.

Let us know how your conversation goes. I will not be at Oshkosh to express my disappointment.
 
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fl-mike said:
I intend to ask them at OSH why they are breaking the terms of the deal and why I would reward them for that. (assuming they have a booth this year)
I like the product for a few reasons. It is lagging the other EFB apps and has a few bugs, but nothing that would have caused me to jump ship until now.
Click to expand...

I have been using FlyQ since its beginning but never became a lifetime subscriber. I have always liked it but recently they seem to be getting more bugs.
I was already planning on stopping into their booth at OSH to ask why so many issues recently. I will definitely stop now. They are located in Hangar C booth 3072D. In the EAA app, it lists them as their parent company Aircraft Performance Group Avionics LLC
 
I had an outdoor equipment from a well known brand that came with a lifetime warranty. When I sent it for warranty repair, they claimed since this was old they offered 50% of its wholesale price in a way of store credit. My argument with them was if they don't honor their stated lifetime warranty, which was still offered for other similar items, why would I want to spend more money at their store.
I lost that argument and end up accepting the 50% offer.
 
Hi all, I have been using FlyQ since I was a student pilot in 2016 and have held a lifetime subscription since not long after. Mike's succinct "I guess their definition of 'lifetime' and mine differ" is spot-on.

Here's the text of an email I sent to them (to their support inbox, since I don't have other email addresses) after receiving this yesterday:

Greetings Seattle Avionics,

Congratulations on the new FlyQ+ product, which I and others am looking forward to seeing and flying.

As exciting as the new product sounds, it doesn’t seem extraordinarily different from the current FlyQ product – the rebrand notwithstanding, it seems evolutionary. Accordingly, effectively forcing lifetime subscribers, like me, to migrate to an annual subscription seems unjustified at best and potentially illegal.

Before the inevitable class action lawsuit is filed, I encourage you to take a look at another app, Notability, which tried the same approach. They were forced to back down and to continue to honor lifetime subscriptions.

FlyQ is a great app and I wish you continued success, but this is a bridge too far.

---END---

For those of you at Oshkosh, let us know what you hear. Not much I'm guessing since I imagine their legal department has already confined them to well-defined speaking points.
 
There is no excuse for them to throw their integrity out the window. The aviation world is small enough enough and a supplier who gets a bad reputation for reneging on a deal could be worse than trying to squeeze extra bucks from existing customers by breaking a promise.
 
RV8JD said:
Maybe like Van’s did, to stay in business?

www.avweb.com

Seattle Avionics Ends Lifetime Subscription Memberships For FlyQ EFB

In an email to its members, Seattle Avionics, the company behind the FlyQ electronic flight bag app, announced it would be canceling all lifetime
www.avweb.com www.avweb.com
Click to expand...

RV8JD said:
Maybe like Van’s did, to stay in business?

www.avweb.com

Seattle Avionics Ends Lifetime Subscription Memberships For FlyQ EFB

In an email to its members, Seattle Avionics, the company behind the FlyQ electronic flight bag app, announced it would be canceling all lifetime
www.avweb.com www.avweb.com
Click to expand...
Van filed chapter 11.
 
So disappointing.

I was a FlyQ customer for many years, but never purchased a lifetime subscription. About 4 months ago I switched for ForeFlight, and really do not like FF. I was planning to switch back to FlyQ but given their behavior I am hesitant to support them.
 
Money always wins....

Here's who to complain to:

Our Team | Aircraft Performance Group

Meet the APG executive leadership team who maintains an unwavering commitment to the safety and quality of APG’s customers and services.
flyapg.com flyapg.com

I already sent a missive to [email protected] since this was his baby. But he sold out to APG.

Knowing how corporate executives think these days they probably all regard us as freeloaders.

Sigh.
 
cactusman said:
Money always wins....

Here's who to complain to:

Our Team | Aircraft Performance Group

Meet the APG executive leadership team who maintains an unwavering commitment to the safety and quality of APG’s customers and services.
flyapg.com flyapg.com

I already sent a missive to [email protected] since this was his baby. But he sold out to APG.

Knowing how corporate executives think these days they probably all regard us as freeloaders.

Sigh.
Click to expand...
I'm thinking this is going to backfire on them significantly, perhaps even legally.
 
Short term thinking. Obviously if 100% of "lifetime subscribers" go away, their revenue will not decrease. So if even 10% of "lifetime subscribers"
take their offer, revenue Increases. Doesn't seem they can lose. Except in reputation. There they lose. I notified them that after using their buggy current
version for another year, I would be gone. Not a dime more from me. There are several good competitors. I have a year to choose which one I will switch to.
 
SMRacer said:
Short term thinking. Obviously if 100% of "lifetime subscribers" go away, their revenue will not decrease. So if even 10% of "lifetime subscribers"
take their offer, revenue Increases. Doesn't seem they can lose. Except in reputation. There they lose. I notified them that after using their buggy current
version for another year, I would be gone. Not a dime more from me. There are several good competitors. I have a year to choose which one I will switch to.
Click to expand...
If you have purchased a "Lifetime" subscription and they pull a stunt like this, aren't you due a refund?
 
SMRacer said:
Short term thinking. Obviously if 100% of "lifetime subscribers" go away, their revenue will not decrease. So if even 10% of "lifetime subscribers"
take their offer, revenue Increases. Doesn't seem they can lose. Except in reputation. There they lose. I notified them that after using their buggy current
version for another year, I would be gone. Not a dime more from me. There are several good competitors. I have a year to choose which one I will switch to.
Click to expand...
You don't even want to read my response to them. It is not publishable.
Corporate greed for sure. Get rid of those pesky free loaders and we can make some real money. Forgetting that we paid a REAL premium to get to be a real freeloader.
My luck varies BUT seems to have run out here FIXIT
 
I remember reading at the time that the only catch was if the FAA started charging these folks for the 28 day data cycle they would have to re-think it. Has that happened? Seems like Garmin, FF, and SA are all freeloading off the government themselves and making a tidy profit doing it. :cool:
 
Jonnyb said:
If you have purchased a "Lifetime" subscription and they pull a stunt like this, aren't you due a refund?
Click to expand...
Great point. Surely when they purchased Seattle Avionics the "lifetime" subscriptions were put on the liabilities side of the due diligence. So that has been taken into account and APG took on those liabilities as part of the acquisition. They should just write off the liability and keep the lifetime subscriptions going.
 
I find it interesting that SA can claim that version 7 (FlyQ+) is a new product from version 6.9.1 (FlyQ). If it is a new product, why doesn't it start again? If it is a new version, why is our lifetime subscription canceled. I'm having a hard time reconciling their logic other than we want to and putting a plus sign on it gives us the right to renege on our promise.
 
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flysrv10 said:
Van filed chapter 11.
Click to expand...
Yep, I’m quite aware (who isn’t?). Van’s waited too long before they realized their ship was sinking, thus the need for a CH11 filing. Seattle Avionics may be taking proactive action to avoid that outcome.
 
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I wonder if this might eventually have some downstream impact on GRT Avionics and their database updates? Don't they get them from Seattle Avionics?
 
I was wondering where Alissa Heinerscheid ended up....

Seriously, I can't understand the rationale in the executive suite on this. For instance:
  • Violates the terms under which the subscription was purchased. Nothing about new versions of the software ending the subscription in the purchase agreement.
  • It probably violates Apple's T&C's for subscriptions. Could get them kicked off the platform.
  • It sets them up for a legal challenge and refunds, so a negative financial impact vs null to just carry the subscribers
  • It will poison the brand on social media
  • The product has no advantages over the completion. It's not like there aren't any alternatives.
  • The conversion rate of lifetime members to an annual subscription will be very, very low. Trust in the brand is destroyed. Fool me once....

If they are in dire financial straits and need cash flow, an apology and perhaps a small annual maintenance fee would be much easier to sell than a wholesale dumping of the lifetime subscriptions.

I can imagine the conversation from the investment group manager: "Well, we're not going to get any money from those subscribers , so if they go away it doesn't change our revenue anyway. Cut 'em loose. If ten of them re-sign up, we're better than now! Let's break for some bearclaws and coffee and celebrate our business acumen. Harrumph!"

Here is the "fine print".
RV8JD said:
Yep, I’m quite aware (who isn’t?). Van’s waited too long before they realized their ship was sinking, thus the need for a CH11 filing. Seattle Avionics may be taking proactive action to avoid that outcome.
Click to expand...


IMG_0396.PNG
 
What is flyq?
isn’t Seattle avionics the ones that help with charts for advanced cockpits?
 
fl-mike said:
...
  • It probably violates Apple's T&C's for subscriptions. Could get them kicked off the platform.
  • ...
Click to expand...
An appeal through Apple and the app store may be the best approach. Pressure from Apple would be far more influential than anything us freeloaders individually would be able to do. We could start with bad reviews in the app store.
 
Here’s what’s going to happen. Some lawyer will hear about this. He will contact a few hundred users, offer his services ‘for free’ (contingency). He’ll file a lawsuit that Seattle has no hope of winning. They will either pay the lawyer and backtrack, or file for bankruptcy. What a world we live in. I have always held most corporate executives in low esteem, this just reinforces that opinion.
 
I have three GRT displays in my RV-7A that use the Seattle Avionics databases via USB memory sticks. I just updated all three recently. I have a life time subscription for this data source. I haven't heard anything from Seattle Avionics about cancelling that agreement.
 
Fred.Stucklen said:
I have three GRT displays in my RV-7A that use the Seattle Avionics databases via USB memory sticks. I just updated all three recently. I have a life time subscription for this data source. I haven't heard anything from Seattle Avionics about cancelling that agreement.
Click to expand...
Is your database subscription with Seattle Avionics or with GRT?
 
In the same boat. Lifetime member since they first offered it. Very, very disappointed. I’ll not give them a dime after this, although they aren’t getting any anyway. I’ll go to one of the other services before letting them take advantage of me. I’ll probably buy a year subscription here at Oshkosh to another company and keep the FlyQ active so as not to violate any hidden clauses in the fine print. Hopefully people smarter than me will come up with some ways to push back on them.

Pathetic
 
I also accepted their offer of a lifetime subscription. They used my money to further their business and now want to cancel it. The fine print certainly doesn’t allow them to cancel - only supplemental fee to cover any increase in FAA fees.

Greed is all this is about.
 
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Gentle reminder that when people start talking initiating lawsuits, I close the thread.
Please read those posting rules. Under 'Links'. Please and thank you.
v/r,dr
 
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rag said:
I also accepted their offer of a lifetime subscription. They used my money to further their business and now want to cancel it. The fine print certanly doesn’t allow them to cancel - only supplemental fee to cover any increase in FAA fees.

Greed is all this is about. I smell a class action lawsuit.....
Click to expand...
Add me to the group who thought he had a lifetime subscription. I like everyone else paid forwar. I’ve been a strong supporter of the product despite it not working with Garmin avionics. If they fail to live up to their commitments then I’ll never do business with them again and go out of my way to tell anyone considering their products to look elsewhere.
 
mreifeis said:
Add me to the group who thought he had a lifetime subscription. I like everyone else paid forwar. I’ve been a strong supporter of the product despite it not working with Garmin avionics. If they fail to live up to their commitments then I’ll never do business with them again and go out of my way to tell anyone considering their products to look elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Several posters have likened Seattle to Van’s. The comparisons don’t hold up for a software company. Once the software is created it costs the vendor zero to make copy #2 through one million. What we’re talking about is revenue per customer. They need to attract new customers not punish their faithful base. There will be zero from me in the future. Forget me purchasing charts for my navigators or any other products.
 
Hangar 1271 said:
I have 3 ipads and have FlyQ on all of them. Can I do that on iflygps?
Click to expand...
Yes. 3 devices of any kind are allowed. Including your desktop or laptop if you desire. I have iFly lifetime subscription on an iPad, Android phone and Windows laptop.
 
BobTurner said:
Here’s what’s going to happen. Some lawyer will hear about this. He will contact a few hundred users, offer his services ‘for free’ (contingency). He’ll file a lawsuit that Seattle has no hope of winning. They will either pay the lawyer and backtrack, or file for bankruptcy. What a world we live in. I have always held most corporate executives in low esteem, this just reinforces that opinion.
Click to expand...
Fellow aviators, unless Seattle Avionics does decide to backtrack on this, “some lawyer” is going to hear from me. Companies may not like the long-term effects of ”lifetime” sales but that does not give them the right to cancel them on a whim - see my comments re the Notability app above, or Google the people who bought lifetime passes from American Airlines in the 1980s, which AAL still honors. I bought a lifetime VFR/IFR subscription for an app that runs $200 annually so I figure they have economically harmed me to the tune of $4000, and good luck to them trying to argue that point in front of a judge.
 
SteveHAZ said:
Fellow aviators, unless Seattle Avionics does decide to backtrack on this, “some lawyer” is going to hear from me. Companies may not like the long-term effects of ”lifetime” sales but that does not give them the right to cancel them on a whim - see my comments re the Notability app above, or Google the people who bought lifetime passes from American Airlines in the 1980s, which AAL still honors. I bought a lifetime VFR/IFR subscription for an app that runs $200 annually so I figure they have economically harmed me to the tune of $4000, and good luck to them trying to argue that point in front of a judge.
Click to expand...
Don’t get the thread locked down. We all feel the same way and every aviation forum is discussing it. Keep the thread from getting shut down so it can stay on top of mind.
 
I received a reply from Steve P - he said they are reading all the emails FWIW. Said they are considering what to do. I think Steve is a brilliant programmer BTW - and he brought his product to AOPA first and then when they dumped him he went out on his own and made a go of it. He's done well engaging with his customer base and this is his baby so I am sure he doesn't want to see it fail. That said I think there was a better approach that could have been made if there was a problem in the cost/income area.

Here is the link to file a complaint with the Apple App Store:

Sign In - Apple

reportaproblem.apple.com reportaproblem.apple.com

If it doesn't work, go to the App Store on your device and scroll to the bottom - at the right is a link to click to REPORT A PROBLEM.

I think they might have a problem here. I'm not a App Store terms and conditions expert but I think they are playing fast and loose with this not being a new app, and threatening to end all paid for lifetime subscriptions.
 
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SMRacer said:
Short term thinking. Obviously if 100% of "lifetime subscribers" go away, their revenue will not decrease. So if even 10% of "lifetime subscribers"
take their offer, revenue Increases. Doesn't seem they can lose. Except in reputation. There they lose. I notified them that after using their buggy current
version for another year, I would be gone. Not a dime more from me. There are several good competitors. I have a year to choose which one I will switch to.
Click to expand...
I was thinking of changing my EFB to this. Now NOT. Is lost new revenue for them.
 
I purchased the lifetime SA charts for my Dynon panel. Don’t use their iPad app. Hope they don’t try to pull the rug on that one too.
 
cactusman said:
I received a reply from Steve P - he said they are reading all the emails FWIW. Said they are considering what to do. I think Steve is a brilliant programmer BTW - and he brought his product to AOPA first and then when they dumped him he went out on his own and made a go of it. He's done well engaging with his customer base and this is his baby so I am sure he doesn't want to see it fail. That said I think there was a better approach that could have been made if there was a problem in the cost/income area.

Here is the link to file a complaint with the Apple App Store:

Sign In - Apple

reportaproblem.apple.com reportaproblem.apple.com

If it doesn't work, go to the App Store on your device and scroll to the bottom - at the right is a link to click to REPORT A PROBLEM.

I think they might have a problem here. I'm not an App Store terms and conditions expert but I think they are playing fast and loose with this not being a new app, and threatening to end all paid for lifetime subscriptions.
Click to expand...
I reported the discontinued “lifetime” subscription to Apple. Could not link my comment to the original app but did it as a one star review on the FlyQ+.
 
flysrv10 said:
Just got an email from Seattle Avionics that my lifetime membership will expire soon (one year) unless I choose one of their options and start paying for the subscription.

It is unfortunate that they will no longer honor their commitment.

Below is a partial email I revived with my options:

  1. All Lifetime customers can use the new FlyQ+ EFB 7.0 and later releases for 30 days.
  2. During that period, Lifetime customers can upgrade to an annual subscription with a one-time 25% discount to continue to enjoy FlyQ+ EFB 7.0 and all other future releases.
  3. In 30 days, Lifetime customers who do not move to a new annual subscription can download a forthcoming new FlyQ EFB Legacy 6.9.1 and use it for a year, after which it will be sunset. As the version number implies, FlyQ EFB Legacy is the same as FlyQ EFB 6.9.1 released in May 2024 and does not include the features or fixes in FlyQ+ EFB 7.0.
Click to expand...
Flysrv10,
I cannot describe how disappointed I was by the same email.
I was so disillusioned that I did not follow the link to even investigate the revised "commitment".
Done of them.
Despite being an early adopter of the format, a beta-tester and advocate, somewhere along the way my contract was changed from "lifetime IFR" to, monthly "fee" (which is likely to increase soon).
FlyQ justified it because of multiple "upgrades".
These were in my opinion created by non-pilots, and offered no useful application in the cockpit.
e.g.: being able to whip out my iphone and use the camera like to display items. What crap.
My cockpit is not a game station.
I'm actually busy in my cockpit with both hands, both feet, my eyes and ears, so no, no real time to be playing with my phone in whatever pocket I left it in.
Let users continue should they de$ire.
For me: Hello Garmin based programs. At least they have not broken a contract with me.
I for one, will not be moving to the "new and improved" version of 7.0+.
Couldn't care less.
I frankly don't care if v8.0 comes with autoland.

There. Said it, I can now get off my soapbox.
Pass the Tylenol.

Daddyman: out.
 
I must have missed this email but I will never give another dime to them if they go through with this. I used FF before FlyQ and when I finally get back to regular flying will subscribe to FF. I found it to be easier to use and the weather movement better on it anyway.
 
I just spoke to a representative at their booth in building c at Oshkosh. He seemed sympathetic but I did find out that Shawn Mechelke the president of Seattle avionics parent company APG, who made the decision to shaft the lifetime members will be in the booth Tuesday. It was suggested that I express my opinion then. I think anyone who feels as I do should be sure to drop by Tuesday

Remember to ask for Shawn Mechelke
 
One more who has sent SA a nasty email

we ponied up giving them a cash infusion when they desperately needed it and the new owners give us the finger …..

we need to hit all platforms: VAF, AOPA, EAA, and all others to make this a PR nightmare for them.

thanks for not shutting down this thread as we got too close to bending the rules

i reported via Apple Apps- I used the “report a scam” link as that’s exactly what this has become
 
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Just talked to Shawn there new president. He stated that we did not have a contract so this is just a business decision. He said he was sorry and I replied I did not think he really was and he just shrugged.

He said that the last version would work until it was no longer supported by IOS. Not a hard cut off after one year as stated in the email. But no guarantee after that.

He will be in the booth Tuesday if you want to stop by and express your displeasure. Building c exhibit hall.
 
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