About 4K to add a second Dynon to my panel order. For those who have two of them, I am wondering how much you use the second one? Also, how do you use it? Four K is a lot for me so I am wondering if you use the second one very much. My passenger will be my wife about 95% of the time and she has no opinion on whether or not she would use the second Dynon as a passenger. Your thoughts and experience please - thanks.
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Dual Displays?
- Thread starter E. D. Eliot
- Start date
SmilingJack
Well Known Member
My wife flys in my -8 all the time and uses an ipad as a non pilot. Put an ipad on her side with an aviation app to she can help and/or keep busy during the flight.
Seems like it will ve $4000!
The only reason I can see for the extra screen is for a backup.
Seems like it will ve $4000!
The only reason I can see for the extra screen is for a backup.
Been flying the 6 for about a year with two 10" Skyviews. I use one for a PFD and EMS. The other I use for moving maps, charts and airport info. The ADS-B info (weather depictions and participating aircraft displays) is overlaid on the sectional charts moving maps. You can swap the screens at anytime or change configurations to suit your preferences. Trust me, after flying your creation, you'll love having the double screens. Maybe time will pass and you'll forget about that extra 4K. Anybody who wants to fly from the right seat will also thank you for it.
Lorne
Lorne
I have two EFIS mounted side-by side in front of me, with two ADAHRS and a backup battery. This provides good redundancy. I use the left screen for flight and engine instruments; the right for charts and IFR plates. I reverse the displays when someone is flying from the right seat. Garmin/Comm/Intercomm/Transponder stack mounted immediately to the right of the glass.
I love this configuration!
I love this configuration!
Reformed SeaSnake
Member
It Depends
Ed,
I would first ask what your mission is. That will help you determine what you 'need' vs what you 'want'. If you're planning to fly IFR you'll need some kind of back up whether that's a 2nd Skyview or vacuum gages. The more IFR, and particularly night-IFR, the more capable you'll want that back up to be.
I am planning to fly substantial IFR and have a single Skyview and a BMA EFIS LITE for back up in the -8 I am building. Plan to use my tablet for geo-referenced charts. I am not happy with my decision to buy the BMA EFIS so far before completion, and if I were doing it over, I'd get a D10A as back up.
That said, I know several guys at the Airport I'm at who have dual 10" EFIS' and none of them are disappointed.
Ed,
I would first ask what your mission is. That will help you determine what you 'need' vs what you 'want'. If you're planning to fly IFR you'll need some kind of back up whether that's a 2nd Skyview or vacuum gages. The more IFR, and particularly night-IFR, the more capable you'll want that back up to be.
I am planning to fly substantial IFR and have a single Skyview and a BMA EFIS LITE for back up in the -8 I am building. Plan to use my tablet for geo-referenced charts. I am not happy with my decision to buy the BMA EFIS so far before completion, and if I were doing it over, I'd get a D10A as back up.
That said, I know several guys at the Airport I'm at who have dual 10" EFIS' and none of them are disappointed.
tomkk
Well Known Member
Seems like you'd need quite a bit more than a 2nd display to turn the -12 into an IFR machine. I'm finding the single display with a tablet (Android Nexus 9 in my case) to be perfect for my day VFR flying. The only thing I wish I could do would be to move the EMS from my primary display.
rapid_ascent
Well Known Member
I had a cover panel made at the same time as I had the panel cut to cover the hole for a future addition of the second panel. I'll start with one and maybe some day add a second one.
scottmillhouse
Well Known Member
I added a dual Skyview to my 12 after flying in to Oshkosh last year. There were storms and traffic everywhere for the last 100+ miles. I was altering course real time to fly close to airports, monitor weather, ADS-D storm displays and traffic. Every time you check text, flight plan, METARS etc. you lose your map display which was disturbing even for a short time. Added right screen. On cross countries I have it as map with weather displayed and zoomed out to show next way point. Otherwise it is a backup and a clone display for use by passenger and for me to fly from right seat to help transition pilots or for an instructor. With it, I now don't know how I flew without it.
Keep in mind that with the exception of Scott Millhouse who is very happy with two 10" Dynons in his RV-12, the others appear to be flying planes other than the RV-12, and have the liberty of placing the second screen closer to the center. My own concern is that looking at the screen on the right side is like your passenger trying to see the screen in front of you and fly the plane with it. To me it is somewhat difficult to see because of the angle, the distance and the reflections. Using an I-Pad with Iflygps, it can be angled in your direction and is much less expensive. Scott shared with me that he sometimes leans in the direction of the right hand screen to see it better. He often flies with no one in the right seat so it appears to work well for him.
You don't have to lean over to see details close up like traffic. Just hit the SWAP button and have the right hand screen instantly in front of you. Swap it back in an instant.
I am not a fan of using an iPad in the cockpit. In a bubble canopy the the glare on an iPad makes it hard to see. And with it installed with some kind of mount angling toward you from the right panel, the passenger may have it for lunch in a crash landing. There are some flush mounts for the iPad which would be better but then you have the problem of the angle, and there would be no SWAP button. The dual screen panel is better. If you do a lot of cross country, subscribe to the Seattle Avionics charts and then you will have the sectionals and plates all on SkyView and clearly no need for an iPad display on the panel. I do carry my iPad usually folded up on the floor as a kind of GPS backup.
I am not a fan of using an iPad in the cockpit. In a bubble canopy the the glare on an iPad makes it hard to see. And with it installed with some kind of mount angling toward you from the right panel, the passenger may have it for lunch in a crash landing. There are some flush mounts for the iPad which would be better but then you have the problem of the angle, and there would be no SWAP button. The dual screen panel is better. If you do a lot of cross country, subscribe to the Seattle Avionics charts and then you will have the sectionals and plates all on SkyView and clearly no need for an iPad display on the panel. I do carry my iPad usually folded up on the floor as a kind of GPS backup.
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fabricflyer
Well Known Member
Building a 7, going to use 10" with a 7" in middle. Putting a glove box on right in such a way I can remove it, cut a bigger hole, and mount another 10" if ever needed. Will use the 7" mainly for map or engine monitor, but can use it as back up if needed.
Allen Blackwell
Tylertown, MS
Allen Blackwell
Tylertown, MS
Tony, if a person only had one screen is there a way to swap the information displayed in much the same way as if you had two?You don't have to lean over to see details close up like traffic. Just hit the SWAP button and have the right hand screen instantly in front of you. Swap it back in an instant.
I am not a fan of using an iPad in the cockpit. In a bubble canopy the the glare on an iPad makes it hard to see. And with it installed with some kind of mount angling toward you from the right panel, the passenger may have it for lunch in a crash landing. There are some flush mounts for the iPad which would be better but then you have the problem of the angle, and there would be no SWAP button. The dual screen panel is better. If you do a lot of cross country, subscribe to the Seattle Avionics charts and then you will have the sectionals and plates all on SkyView and clearly no need for an iPad display on the panel. I do carry my iPad usually folded up on the floor as a kind of GPS backup.
Another question. I went through several training videos on the Dynon HDX and read through the autopilot section of the manual and I do not see any buttons for 'LEVEL' or '180.' I think it is the same as the Skyview Touch that you have. Am I just not seeing them or are the not there?
Why I did dual screens
When I built my 12, I did the dual G3X's. I think my reasons for going dual would also apply to the Skyviews.
The main reason I did duals was redundancy. In general, I did not use the second screen very much but I was VERY glad that I had two screen when my primary screen decided to re-boot one time in flight. I was quite a surprised to have the screen in front of me go black. If the primary didn't come back to life, I would have been fine flying on the right side screen.
I wouldn't want to fly with just the right side screen for a long time but it was certainly good enough to use it for a while.
All electronics, no matter how good, can fail.
One other thing to consider is that it may cost more to add a second screen later. When I did my G3X's, there was a big discount on the second screen when I bought them as a Dual screen package. It would have cost more to buy the single screen and then add the second screen at a later date. You might want to check if the same thing applies to the Skyview.
When I built my 12, I did the dual G3X's. I think my reasons for going dual would also apply to the Skyviews.
The main reason I did duals was redundancy. In general, I did not use the second screen very much but I was VERY glad that I had two screen when my primary screen decided to re-boot one time in flight. I was quite a surprised to have the screen in front of me go black. If the primary didn't come back to life, I would have been fine flying on the right side screen.
I wouldn't want to fly with just the right side screen for a long time but it was certainly good enough to use it for a while.
All electronics, no matter how good, can fail.
One other thing to consider is that it may cost more to add a second screen later. When I did my G3X's, there was a big discount on the second screen when I bought them as a Dual screen package. It would have cost more to buy the single screen and then add the second screen at a later date. You might want to check if the same thing applies to the Skyview.
alpinelakespilot2000
Well Known Member
You didn't really say what your mission is, but it's lots of little decisions like this that turn a $60K plane into a $100K plane.
For VFR a D180 + a gps that can show traffic and weather (and a backup steam ASI) has been more than enough for me. YMMV.
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The answer is "yes", there are 20%, 40% and 100% screen options for the EFIS, EMS and MAP pages on a single display, you can configure in many ways, or show full screen size any of them. It just takes more button pushing and is not as easy as using SWAP with two screens.
HDX has real big "180" and "LEVEL" buttons on it's AP menu. They are soft keys. Real easy.
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Tony, are you set up to use the 'simplified autopilot controls' or the 'expert autopilot controls?' Apparently it is something you change at the time you set it up. With the HDX the simplified controls the '180' and 'LEVEL' buttons are there. With the expert controls they do not appear to be there. See Section 8-2 and onwards. http://dynonavionics.com/public_htm...yView_HDX_Pilots_User_Guide-Rev_A_v15_0v2.pdf
It is very easy to switch between expert and simplified modes.
Jesse in the HDX manual on page 8-2 it says the following: "Prior to operating in flight, the Autopilot must be fully configured. Refer to the SkyView Classic / SE / HDX System Installation Guide for detailed instructions on how to change the autopilot control scheme between Simplified and Expert controls and how to configure the autopilot." Are you saying they can be changed in flight? I am trying to see how you would get to the LEVEL button in a hurry if you need it and you were using the Expert Mode.
Tony, here is the Dynon training video I watched: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elGXWzstnFw&index=4&list=PLjU8CSiBHFbZ8SrqM8PZw22dm_HYaSnYJ It demonstrates the function of the 'Expert Control Mode,' which as I said does not appear to include the 'LEVEL' and '180' buttons. I think what a person would have to do to activate these effects would be to press the 'TRK' button, press the 'ALT HOLD' button, which would get you flying straight and level, and then move the bug 180 degrees from the direction you were going. They did retain the LEVEL button on the remote unit but not the 180 button.
Enough elect. power?
Thanks to all who helped me make my decision. Now, I'm concerned about the ability of the Rotax to provide enough power to run my set up. Flying here in LA area, I want my landing light (or two eventually flashing) and anti-collision lights on continuously. Guess that I could turn the second Dynon off but this kind of negates the reason for having two of them.
Also, do any of you have a recommendation for a battery back up for the second Dynon? They are small and I could easily add one for the second Dynon during constriction when I get to that point. Thanks in advance - I appreciate the collective advice very much.
Thanks to all who helped me make my decision. Now, I'm concerned about the ability of the Rotax to provide enough power to run my set up. Flying here in LA area, I want my landing light (or two eventually flashing) and anti-collision lights on continuously. Guess that I could turn the second Dynon off but this kind of negates the reason for having two of them.
Also, do any of you have a recommendation for a battery back up for the second Dynon? They are small and I could easily add one for the second Dynon during constriction when I get to that point. Thanks in advance - I appreciate the collective advice very much.
Raymo
Well Known Member
I installed a backup battery on both screens, which gives 45+ minutes of run time should the alternator and battery are off-line (e.g. Master switch off).
Hold off purchasing/installing the backup battery as long as possible since the 3 year warranty clock starts at purchase (I believe). The backup battery also provides power to many items on the network (e.g. AD-AHRS).
Hold off purchasing/installing the backup battery as long as possible since the 3 year warranty clock starts at purchase (I believe). The backup battery also provides power to many items on the network (e.g. AD-AHRS).
get dual 10s
I initially paneled a 10 inch in front of pilot and a 7 inch in front of co-pilot. Left screen is normally configured to show flight instruments, engine instruments , and a zoomed in map (immediate information). Right screen normally configured to larger map, approach plates, airport info, and weather (longer term planning info). When PIC is in the right seat, the screens get reversed.
After flying one year and seeing how much information I was getting from the right screen (and a touch of middle-aged eyesight) I re-paneled to two 10 inch screens. For the flying I do, this is a well-justified expense. Wish I'd gotten it right the first time. If your mission has a lot of cross-country flying, get two of the biggest screens you can. Flipping thru soft pages during heavy flying is bad for workload and cockpit resource management.
I initially paneled a 10 inch in front of pilot and a 7 inch in front of co-pilot. Left screen is normally configured to show flight instruments, engine instruments , and a zoomed in map (immediate information). Right screen normally configured to larger map, approach plates, airport info, and weather (longer term planning info). When PIC is in the right seat, the screens get reversed.
After flying one year and seeing how much information I was getting from the right screen (and a touch of middle-aged eyesight) I re-paneled to two 10 inch screens. For the flying I do, this is a well-justified expense. Wish I'd gotten it right the first time. If your mission has a lot of cross-country flying, get two of the biggest screens you can. Flipping thru soft pages during heavy flying is bad for workload and cockpit resource management.
scottmillhouse
Well Known Member
In response to Eliot on electrical power, the Rotax is marginal at best with everything running with dual screens. Rotax said 18 amp generator but do not exceed 14 amp continuous. I found out first hand on Oshkosh arrival last Saturday. Right in the furball of planes coming off the holding lakes after the mass arrivals, Betty announced ADS-B fail multiple times and the Skyview displays big red XX and reboots. With a dozen planes in view and some only hundreds of feet away the screens were not getting much scan time so I was clueless on the cause. Looked like hundreds of ADS-B targets, big black blobs of traffic.
Dumped the Skyviews and Dynon did the diagnostic analysis at the show. It appears that with the landing light load and low RPM, low voltage caused the system to cascade with transponder, ADS-B and GPS dropping off line until the system cascaded and rebooted. I was in landing light strobe mode, Stein said that actually is harder on our system since it grabs a lot of juice for each flash. If 45 minutes of strobe LL on causes a low voltage, I would not run LL all the time. With FAA ran ADS-B full report and it showed sporadic drop outs of ADS-B data about 2% for that flight segment with other flights perfect. As someone suggested I am now planning on adding a backup battery for the right too. I also will not be running LL for long times especially in pulse mode.
Dumped the Skyviews and Dynon did the diagnostic analysis at the show. It appears that with the landing light load and low RPM, low voltage caused the system to cascade with transponder, ADS-B and GPS dropping off line until the system cascaded and rebooted. I was in landing light strobe mode, Stein said that actually is harder on our system since it grabs a lot of juice for each flash. If 45 minutes of strobe LL on causes a low voltage, I would not run LL all the time. With FAA ran ADS-B full report and it showed sporadic drop outs of ADS-B data about 2% for that flight segment with other flights perfect. As someone suggested I am now planning on adding a backup battery for the right too. I also will not be running LL for long times especially in pulse mode.
