Ditching in a tip-up

This video got me thinking about ditching an RV aircraft. It seems to me it's a bit easier proposition in a slider, for obvious reasons, than a tip-up.

This person's suggestion to take off your shoes while you have time and then wedge them into the door raises the question for me of whether it's possible at a typical slow flight airspeed to lift the tip-up canopy enough to wedge shoes between the canopy frame and the rollbar to -- maybe -- make egress easier.

I don't have the ejectable tip-up, fyi.

I'd probably want to be 100% focused on controlling the airplane during the emergency than fumbling with a shoe in a tip up, but that's just me.

FWIW, one of the guys on here did a test with various tools on a junk canopy to see what broke the canopy the easiest and quickest for egress. Hands down a small hammer did the trick. Might be worth considering if you're near water on a consistent basis.

Take my shoes off? Only if I am kicking off my boat shoes . I can't picture trying to reach down there and deal with shoes in any situation, much less a ditching. Then again, I need to lose a few pounds....

Clarkie said:

...
FWIW, one of the guys on here did a test with various tools on a junk canopy to see what broke the canopy the easiest and quickest for egress. Hands down a small hammer did the trick. Might be worth considering if you're near water on a consistent basis.

Click to expand...

That was me! I hosted a Chapter 105 meeting here in my shop about a year ago, and we tested a canopy cracker on my unusable canopy. Here's a link to the page. The video is at the bottom of this page:

Canopy Cracking Tool - Test

Way Back In Another Life

Excellent video of canopy breaking!

When I was a student pilot flying T-28s we had an instructor show us how to break the canopy in an actual airplane. He simply took out his survival knife scribed a big X and with one punch of the hammer end in the middle of the X broke a hole big enough to crawl through.

Later he had to use that same knife to puncture his seat raft which malfunctioned and inflated coming out between his legs and interfering with the control stick. He said it took more than one try to tear a hole in it while trying to fly the plane and protect the Family Jewels at the same time. He was pretty good with that knife.

I keep a dead-blow hammer between the seats. Unfortunately, I haven't gotten around to securing it yet

With a tip-up, I'm not sure you will have much to worry about. Open the canopy before impact and it will float open three to four inches. (I made one flight with the canopy unlatched as part of my 40 hour phase 1 so I would know what to expect when/if I left it unlatched.)

I suspect, but don't know, that on impact with the water, that canopy will slam forward, pulling the struts apart, thus making egress fairly simple.

I can't imagine (again, this is my opinion and not based on any testing) that the canopy will jam closed, if it is unlocked prior to impact.

I consider ditching my RV-6 to be about the worst accident that could happen. The impact with the water would be violent and almost certainly end up with the battered and disoriented occupants upside down. I hope I would have enough senses remaining to get out of the plane but......

Instinct might lead us to attempt a ditching close to shore but putting it down in shallow water could result in the canopy being pinned against the bottom of the lake. Might be better to aim for deeper water in order to buy more time to get out of the plane.

A water arrival is not a pleasant thing to consider in an RV, definitely more dicey than putting down a Cherokee. I hope we never have an opportunity to test these theories.

LettersFromFlyoverCountry said:

This video got me thinking about ditching an RV aircraft. It seems to me it's a bit easier proposition in a slider, for obvious reasons, than a tip-up.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't say that it's obvious. Even if you could slide your canopy open in flight (which according to reports here you can't), impact with the water would certainly slam it shut again. Even propped open with a shoe (love the idea!) there's a non-zero probability that he fuselage could buckle/bend during the ditching. If that happens, the canopy may not slide at all... That leaves you with an open canopy taking on water fast, and once the cabin fills you won't have the ability to develop any momentum to break the plexi. I would not want to rely on needing to break a canopy while ditching... The water will absorb all of your momentum while hitting the glass.

In my tip-up, my plan would be to release the main locks (left and right rear corners) during the descent, but leave the overhead lock in place. I know from experience the plane flies just fine that way... . From then on, the only things holding the canopy are that aft latch (which is unlikely to be damaged to the point of not working in an accident) and the forward two hinge bolts... Which I think I would have enough leverage on to overpower even if things got a little bit bent up front. I also have the emergency jettison handle, so pulling that at the last minute might be a good idea too.

If I had a slider I would certainly have quick releases on the forward rollers. The canopy would be jettisoned before going into the water. There are arguments for and against that idea, but for me, I think the risk profile favors it.

Preparation is the key to ditching survival

If you fly around the coast or over water a lot you should be prepared to execute the the proper procedures for ditching. When teaching beginning Air Force pilots to fly the T-1 aka Beech 400, I'd routinely give them a ditching scenario as an emergency procedure and have them execute the EP in real time with me timing their response to water impact. Very few got it right and hopefully they learned the importance of knowing the aircraft's best glide speed, how far the aircraft would glide per thousand feet, and the basic steps of what to do in this emergency and not rely upon the checklist. Even professional pilots aren't always prepared. Sully Sullenberger and his co-pilot forgot to close off the baggage compartment exhaust valves before impact and as such after ditching in Hudson River their plane filled full of water. Navy pilots routinely practice getting out of a ditched aircraft inverted with stuck door/canopy.

Here's great 2004 article on a successful ditching. I would image this RV-8 pilot thought a lot about ditching since he flew out of the Hawaiian islands.

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=85c0322d-8d8e-4f7b-bada-e82df2e33326

Pilot Survives Ditching And Shows It Can Be Done
Most pilots fear ditching an aircraft into the ocean but one aviator recently proved even the worst of situations can be survivable. Bob Justman's RV-8 was cruising at 1,000 feet over the beautiful waters surrounding the Hawaiian islands on Sunday morning, when at 8:52 a.m., he lost engine power as he flew to Lihue from Honolulu.

Justman promptly radioed the Honolulu ARTCC and set-up for a ditching approximately 60 miles from Oahu. Fortunately, he was under ATC's watchful eye as he made a last call about 200 feet over the water's surface. More importantly, his training would prove to be the key to his survival.

Once into the water, Justman immediately went to work getting out of the airplane, which had moved into an awkward and potentially dangerous position.

"After impact the canopy closed and the aircraft inverted underwater, trapping me in the cockpit," Justman explained. I released my shoulder harness and seat belt and worked at opening the canopy while underwater for over a minute. Miraculously, the canopy partially opened ... and I was able to eject myself from the cockpit just before the aircraft sank," he said.

Fly safe,
George

Never remove your shoes!!!

Please please please, never remove your shoes before ditching your aircraft. It must be one of the worst things you can do.

Imagine trying to escape an aircraft, possibly on fire, with jagged aluminum everywhere while barefoot. Then you have the dangers of the terrain you may be navigating.

Keeping care of your feet is essential for survival. Don't you remember that Tom Hanks movie?

Wierd

I just talked about this with a couple local RVers yesterday on a fly out. You have a good chance of ending upsidedown, its going to be violent. I am definately keep the shoes on and fly the plane all the way down to the impact, if you are lucky enough to make it out of the plane you'll have a chance to kick them off if needed. I never thought about the water being too shallow but that brings up a great point and something I will remember. I am not going to be too concerned about my canopy opening, I have a great canopy cracking tool.

Randy
8A
0-360

The RV-14 apparently has a canopy design for easy jettison. For those of use who have not built our canopy yet, can these RV-14 canopy concept/parts be used in our non RV-14 builds?

Another suggestion for ditching that i've heard more than once... Get as low and slow as you can, and as flat as you can to the water, and then touch one wingtip or one wheel first. Yes, this will spin the airplane. But on water, flat and at low speed, you won't make it more than half a turn before the plane is in the water. The plus side is that you have a much larger chance of remaining upright.

Might help a slider canopy open during the landing due to the centrifugal forces, might help close a tip-up. Good chance of buckling some of the fuselage, too. All things to think about.

Ditching

GHRoss3

''Sully Sullenberger and his co-pilot forgot to close off the baggage compartment exhaust valves before impact and as such after ditching in Hudson River their plane filled full of water.',
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If you look at the aircraft once they pulled it out of the water, I don't think that forgetting to close the valve make one schred of difference in the outcome...
The whole underside of the aircraft was totally busted...