Whirlwind WW200RV vs. Hartzell C2YR-1N/N7605-4 Composite Prop

[RV7Ron]

Although this doesn't specifically address the prop you're after, its a great prop reference article by Randy Lervold with some good numbers on the Whirl Wind props. I used this article to help me make my prop decision.

http://www.romeolima.com/RV8/Prop.htm

[Kahuna]

Originally Posted by Al RV8

Were you guys able to use the same Hartzell BA spinner with the Hartzell composite? Also, any additional performance info we can get would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

We could have used our existing spinners, but we all went with the very cool and sexy Hartzell polished spinners. We are in the entertainment business. Looks matter.
You would have to make your cut out of your existing Vans spinner of the root slightly larger to accommodate the larger root of the composite blades. Just a little bit of filing if you want to keep your Vans spinner thats already fitted.

The team had a number of different props. From BA to old fat paddle to WW. All c/s props of different shapes and sizes. As a general set of observations;
1. Significant reduction in weights going from metal. This improved handling of stick forces and formation aerobatic maneuvers.
2. Significant improvement in smoothness
3. Significant improvement in static thrust. This was particularly noticeable in the vertical during aerobatic maneuvers and on take off. ~200' reduction in T.O. distance.
4. Significant improvement in acceleration against the metal props. Think faster spool up time of RPM. Also noticeable in the vertical.
5. Similar cruise speeds
6. Similar top speeds with a couple reporting 1-2kts loss in very top speed
7. Improvement in ramp appeal. They just look good.
8. Improvement in blade life. These blades are certified unlimited service life.

Thats it in a nutshell.

[twisted-wrench]

Hartzell is about $1K+ more vs the Whirlwind from what I've seen.

[BillL]

Originally Posted by Kahuna

We did see a couple of cowl interference issues in high pitch. I think 3 of the 10 had this. There is a high pitch stop adjustment that can be made which we did. There is also the G hub that is ~1" longer and provides more than adequate cowl clearance with plenty of prop pitch for the sub 230hp engines . Our team will likely go to the G hub with these blades in the future.

Has anyone formulated/documented a recommendation for the distance from the prop mount plane to the most forward portion of the cowling? We, Hartzell composite builders, could use that dimension.

Good to hear the cruise and top speed information, that is very consistent with the analytical information I used to make my decision. I am very happy the data confirms.

[ronschreck]

Originally Posted by BillL

Has anyone formulated/documented a recommendation for the distance from the prop mount plane to the most forward portion of the cowling? We, Hartzell composite builders, could use that dimension.

Good to hear the cruise and top speed information, that is very consistent with the analytical information I used to make my decision. I am very happy the data confirms.

As Mike mentioned, the "G" hub will make the cowl-prop clearance a non-issue. Limiting the high pitch stop with the "C" hub is an interim fix until the "G" hub is ready. I would not recommend limiting high pitch as a permanent solution in any case.

[Sparky]

As the OP of this thread back in December 2009, thanks for the somewhat delayed replies. By the way, I went with the Hartzell C2YR-1N/N7605-4 2-blade composite prop. I haven't flown yet, but am enthused by the above responses.

[jjconstant]

I'm unfamiliar with the Hartzell composite prop. I have the WW200RV. I believe it is carbon fiber and when I tap on it it resonates like it is hollow. When I purchased it, it had no rpm restrictions, but when Hartzell came out with its restrictions on some of its blades, WW added EXACTLY the same RPM bands as "recommended to avoid". It made no sense to me because of the differences between materials and they admitted they had not done the same vibration analysis that Hartzell did. Sounded to me like the lawyers got involved and it was just easier to put a weakly worded caveat in the manual rather than try to educate the lawyers or pay for very expensive testing. I would be interested to see how people run the 200RV with regard to the RPM recommended bands...

Does the new Hartzell composite prop have RPM restrictions on it?

[BillL]

Originally Posted by jjconstant

I'm unfamiliar with the Hartzell composite prop. I have the WW200RV. I believe it is carbon fiber and when I tap on it it resonates like it is hollow. When I purchased it, it had no rpm restrictions, but when Hartzell came out with its restrictions on some of its blades, WW added EXACTLY the same RPM bands as "recommended to avoid". It made no sense to me because of the differences between materials and they admitted they had not done the same vibration analysis that Hartzell did. Sounded to me like the lawyers got involved and it was just easier to put a weakly worded caveat in the manual rather than try to educate the lawyers or pay for very expensive testing. I would be interested to see how people run the 200RV with regard to the RPM recommended bands...

Does the new Hartzell composite prop have RPM restrictions on it?

Here is a video of how WW makes the blades. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cyycR356pQ The constant speed blades go to Ohio and are mated to the hubs. They have a hollow section where the bladder is inflated to form the blade in the mold, and are all carbon fiber.

No operational restriction on the Hartzell composite blade, at least for my IO-360 parallel valve.

[Al RV8]

I found out that the new "G" hub is now available at the Van's site.

http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/...sprop-hartzell

To my disappointment and surprise the price has been raised $1470 to $13,200. Vans will not produce their spinner for this prop so you are left with a 1" gap between spinner / cowl or buying a Hartzell AL spinner for $1350. $14,550 puts this new combo out of reach in my humble opinion! I really wanted this prop but now I am thinking of going with the Whirlwind 2-blade 2013 RV for $9215 including spinner.

Is anyone using the WW 2013 RV Yet????

[sailvi767]

AL, Hopefully we will be able to give you some numbers by early December. We have a high output IO360 with a RV200. We are switching the blades to the RV74(RV2013) when we have the hub overhauled. We will try and get some solid before and after numbers. The two props use a completely different construction method. The 200 is as mentioned a hollow core prop. The RV74 is a solid prop. It weighs 1 lbs more then the RV200. The RV74 is optimized for 200HP and up. If you below that number they still recommend the RV200. There are very few RV74's flying so not much feedback at this point. The one person who has some hours on the new prop loves it. He states its very smooth and can be cruised at a lower RPM then the 200. In my aircraft and others I have spoken with the 200 seems to get a little rough below 2450 RPM. This might be a balance issue however.
If you are a current owner of the RV200 its a easy blade swap to get the RV74. The price for blades only is very competitive. You also get to keep your old 200 blades as spares or to sell.

George