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  #1  
Old 10-17-2013, 10:45 PM
Flyguytki's Avatar
Flyguytki Flyguytki is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Fairbanks AK
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Default First Flight Suspected Engine Failure Video

Below is a link to the video from inside the cockpit of my first flight a few months back. If you watch the dynon you will see a dramatic rise in the CHT and then it suddenly falls off. The EGT's on the right also acted very odd however that was a settings error in the way the sensors were reading. After this 3 minute flight we spent 3 days digging into everything imaginable trying to find a solution. After talking with numerous A&P's, Superior as well as a well known engine builder who is local we determined the Number 1 Cylinder fuel line was partially blocked during takeoff, as i turned crosswind the Cylinder became fully blocked which made the cylinder loose power and drop off, this also reduced the overall RPM by nearly 1000rpm. Almost immediately the cylinder cleared itself and returned to normal operations unknown to me at the time. The aircraft flew for 85 hours without a single incident until it was sold a few weeks ago.

Please critique, I would love to hear what others think of the diagnosis or how the situation was handled. Since I am starting a new aviation career next year this could help out significantly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF-TSxl7y10

-david
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  #2  
Old 10-17-2013, 11:53 PM
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RV7AJeremy RV7AJeremy is offline
 
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I sent this to David via PM but figure the group might be interested. I just finished a 4.5 year tour teaching primary pilot training for the USAF. We focused heavily on single engine mentality and engine out/possible engine failure scenarios. YMMV

If anyone wants to read about how the USAF teaches single engine stuff, go here:
http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/?txtS...ite=AFPW_EPubs
and download that pub.
Read the part about ELP's (emergency landing patterns). Para 5.19 read as much as you want but focus on 5.19.7 and the figure of the ELP.

Basically, if you experience any type of engine failure, engine malfunction, or anything relating to engine issues, you should get yourself on profile for an ELP, and then fly the ELP. He APPEARED to have flown a normal pattern and my concern would be if his engine would have actually failed as he was rolling out on final, he might have been in a low energy state. I was not there so I can't judge.
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  #3  
Old 10-18-2013, 09:29 AM
Monkey Monkey is offline
 
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Location: Roanoke, Texas
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Default Engine Failure

If you get a blocked fuel injector the other 3 cylinders will get extra fuel and run rich causing low EGT and CHT temps.
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  #4  
Old 10-18-2013, 10:31 AM
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Pmerems Pmerems is offline
 
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Default #4 EGT

Looks like #4 EGT dropped off suddenly on short final as well. Odd? Injector or distribution issue?
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  #5  
Old 10-18-2013, 10:35 AM
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Flyguytki Flyguytki is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pmerems View Post
Looks like #4 EGT dropped off suddenly on short final as well. Odd? Injector or distribution issue?

Egt's were not accurate, they were set up as the wrong type of sensor so they were a wash for this flight.
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  #6  
Old 10-18-2013, 10:52 AM
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RVG8tor RVG8tor is offline
 
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This is the first time I saw the video but there is some good learning stuff. I was the chase plane on this flight (you can just see me at 4:02 during the landing roll.

You made what looked like a play to land upwind which is a good first reaction with your altitude but you recognized that you were too high and with partial engine power could just make normal landing back to the takeoff runway.

First I thought you did a great job with the situation you had, this is just comments to think about the next time you are in this position. What most can't see is that you had an out on downwind since you where on a base for a crossing runway, so if the engine totally failed you could make that runway or at least the airport property.

Now the critique, I think you gave up precious energy by descending on the downwind to much. I think I even transmitted that I thought you were low. This loss of altitude stems from the initial turn and thought to land upwind, once you committed away from that course of action you should have leveled the plane or even traded excess airspeed for altitude and dropped the the flaps.

There is an argument that the engine indications you had might have warranted an aborted take off but, this all assumes you noticed them before you were near lift off speed. Other than a longer takeoff roll I did not notice anything as I waited still you were well airborne before I started my takeoff roll.

Most of this we discussed that day but I wanted to post so others have some amplifying information. I will be at this airport this morning if you want to talk emergency philosophy more in depth.

For those coning up on a first flight, I recommend hours sitting in the plane and chair flying all sorts of scenarios so that at least the initial plan of action is ingrained.

An experience formation pilot flying chase is also a big help, just did one with a plane that had unreliable airspeed, just flew on the wing calling out airspeed, verbal airspeed indicator if you will.

Cheers.
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  #7  
Old 10-18-2013, 11:50 AM
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Eddie P Eddie P is offline
 
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It's really hard to get a super accurate impression from the video as the wide angle lens distorts what we see in the video from what we would see in real life and also it is hard to know what your total energy is as I can't see airspeed and relative altitude. But my impressions - I felt a bit uncomfortable looking at the "perceived" low altitude on downwind and the slow downwind return on, I guess, partial power over an area with few "good" land out options.

When you first brought her around in a nicely controlled manner for the down wind landing, it sure looked awfully inviting to me to exit the highest threat environment and trade it for a low level threat of landing downwind... and perhaps in the worst case, running out of runway at walking or jogging speed. I immediately thought "heavy slip maneuver to align with the runway asap, then descending heavy slip all the way to the round out and straighten up and land on what is left of that beautiful runway". I'd much rather exit the runway end in a controlled manner, baja bounce over a few dirt clods and cow patties at 10 knots and come to a stop... then go from 100 to zero in ten feet in a stall-spin or have to touch down at stall speed off field and flip or otherwise go into a tree line or barn shortly there after.

My feeling has always been on engine failures... if you have a serious engine issue that has not led to complete failure (yet), expect the engine to fail at any moment even if it starts running again. I have been trained that a worsening failure in a damaged/sick engine will potentially follow the first movement of the throttle (variance of power), or otherwise, when you can least manage it - Murphy's Law. So with a sick motor we are in a very poor glider that just has not been released from the tow line - yet.

So in your case, you did what looked best to you and the result was no damage, normal landing, etc. The important thing was you kept flying the airplane, made an immediate landing and did not concentrate on diagnosing or fixing the engine above and beyond the basics that our emergency procedures call for, I assume. In my case, in my initial choice I was inclined to take when watching the video, I may have landed hot on the downwind runway, and perhaps even left the paved runway at slow speed or caused some minor damage if I had not executed the maneuver well. What was the right choice? People will always have different opinions. I still feel better about the downwind landing option, as it was a hedge against the worst sort of threat that presented itself while admittedly opening the situation up to some minor threats in trade for overall risk management.

Last edited by Eddie P : 10-18-2013 at 11:53 AM.
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  #8  
Old 10-18-2013, 01:31 PM
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Gagarin737 Gagarin737 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV7AJeremy View Post
If anyone wants to read about how the USAF teaches single engine stuff, go here:
http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/?txtS...ite=AFPW_EPubs
and download that pub.
Read the part about ELP's (emergency landing patterns). Para 5.19 read as much as you want but focus on 5.19.7 and the figure of the ELP.
Thanks! Also the formation flying part is great.
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  #9  
Old 10-18-2013, 02:38 PM
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RV7Ron RV7Ron is offline
 
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Thanks for posting David. As my first flight approaches, this is great to see and visualize...to see what it looks like and how to respond accordingly. Its easy to nitpick your actions to some degree, good for you for putting it out there on the forum for critique. In the end, you kept your head and flew the airplane when a lot of distractions were coming at you...a low time pilot on a first flight in a less than familiar aircraft...nicely done. There are no "style" points in this type of scenario...get it on the ground and walk away.
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  #10  
Old 10-18-2013, 02:46 PM
HSANTIBANEZ HSANTIBANEZ is offline
 
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I dont see perfectly the numbers but i noticed that you take off al 2000 rpm, i know that after the war we are all generals but it is important to put in your checklist to check the full rpm in the begining take off run and if you dont get maximun rpm abort the take off.

Good to see you safety landing, congrats to that but you could abort before.
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