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Have You Ever Seen An Aircraft Builder Make A Mistake................

Geico266

Geico266

Well Known Member
.................and said nothing?

I recently attended a forum where several builders were talking about other builders that were pretty shoddy in their workmanship. The "builders" were well known to many, to the point of being a running "joke" about their shoddy techniques. Well, 2 of these builders have perished due to their mistakes. Maybe we can prevent any more from occurring.

Who is to blame? Sometimes the person looking back in the mirror is the person to "blame".
There is a lot that could be said about this situation, but I would hope that if you see something that is questionable about a builder or their work that you would "discretely" mention it to them in a caring and concerned way, and not "I gotcha!".

No one is above making mistakes. Some of the worst examples of RV's I have ever seen / flown have been "Built by A&P" or just out of an "extensive annual". I went to pick up a plane that was just out of annual and had 1/2" of contaminated water in each wing. :eek:

If you see a problem, mention it to the builder as a matter of fact, not ridicule. Don't be a "little girl" and tell others who are not involved what you saw. Get involved and help. If you can get an EAA Tech Counselor involved. Take a stand, do something! His or her life may depend on it, or one of his family members.

If you don't want to get involved fine, just don't go around gossiping like a little school girl. If you do get involved be an adult about the situation, and talk to the person involved only.

There have been enough builders die at their own hand lately. If you don't help point out what you know and see then you may just be partially at fault too. :eek:

Sometimes looking in the mirror is a tough thing to do. ;)
 
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Good Post Larry!

This is one of the BIGGEST lessons for tech counselors. We run across this quite often. I was involved in one project where we almost had to condemn the entire project. With a lot of supervision and rework, we managed to salvage it. The builder was very appreciative of our help.
 
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Private visits

Mel said:
This is one of the BIGGEST lessons for tech counselors. We run across this quite often. I was involved in one project where we almost had to condemn the entire project. With a lot of supervision and rework, we managed to salvage it. The builder was very appreciative of our help.
Click to expand...

From Tom...

"If you see a problem, mention it to the builder as a matter of fact, not ridicule. Don't go being a "little girl" and "tell" others who are not involved what you saw. If you don't want to get involved fine, but be a man or woman about it and face the facts of the situation and talk to the person involved. His or her life may depend on it."

And one of the best reasons to have a private visit, and not part of an EAA Chapter meeting or similar....

gil A
 
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Curious

A bit off-topic, but from time to time I see these posts that reference "shoddy" work, "poor quality" work, etc.

What exactly are the kinds of things you all have seen that make you question safety? It seems to me a design like an RV has a fairly high degree of tolerance. Are folks not deburring? Are they shooting grossly bad rivets? Panels full of dents? Leaving out parts?

I am NOT disputing you have seen dangerous items, just wondering what they are.
 
I too have seen examples of less than acceptble workmanship. I usually can place the builder in one of 2 types. The one will accept a logical explanation of what should be corrected and the other no matter how hard you try knows better and will find all kinds of justifying comments to keep from really correcting the defect. Unfortunatly this last type has a much shorter life expectancy, as we have seen.

Luckily I see a lot more of type 1 than type 2.

Gary Specketer
Dragonfly, Gasair III, Glastar, RV10
Tech Councilor, Flight Advisor
 
As Jonathan expressed above, I think we all would be interested in hearing what those most common examples of poor workmanship are. We all hear that a few less than perfect rivets here and there are nothing to lose sleep over, but do you see situations where the majority of rivet work is shoddy? Seems like that would be unlikely, so what are the most often seen issues?

Roger
-9A QB, ready for finish kit
La Grande OR
 
OK,

I see what you are saying. In my mind those are all pretty obvious things that are just poor workmanship even if you've never seen an airplane. I wouldn't do those things on a car, for example.

I was more curious if you see a lot of errors directly related to the ability to construct a riveted airframe, if that makes sense.
 
JHines said:
What exactly are the kinds of things you all have seen that make you question safety?
Click to expand...
Jonathan,

For the most part the aircraft structures are usually pretty good. As Larry pointed out, it is the systems that and flight control connections that will get you in trouble.

I recently helped a guy with the RV-7 he built and when I pulled off the gascolator's quick drain valve I found the builder had used plumbers putty on the treads. This type of thing makes me question what other anomalies might be hiding in the fuel system.

Another area where RV builders seem to struggle with is getting the gaps between the flight controls as close as they can get them. This looks good to the average guy but it can cause the controls to bind in flight.

One of my pet peeves is when I look over an aircraft and none of the nuts and bolts are painted with some type of torque seal. It just makes me wonder which of those bolts are tight and which are not. The only way to know for sure is to torque every one of them. Seal each and every bolt as you go. If it has to come off later, put some more seal on it when you re-torque it.

Wiring is big one. Make sure all the wires are secured properly and there is no tension on them. All wires should be properly terminated, no looping the strands around a screw and tighten them down.

Check the fuel lines, are they properly supported? What type of flaring tool was used? Where they torqued and torque sealed?
 
N941WR said:
Jonathan,

For the most part the aircraft structures are usually pretty good. As Larry pointed out, it is the systems that and flight control connections that will get you in trouble.

<SNIP>
Click to expand...

Bill,

That makes good sense. The kind of items you mention I would say are simply based on the ability to follow the plans and known aircraft standards and to be quality conscious. In other words, they are not directly related to a physical "skill".
 
Common problems...

At certification time, I agree that the "systems" are where I find the most problems. But during the build process things I find are, bolts not perpendicular to the material, laid over rivets, rivets driven too much or not enough, elongated holes, missing rivets, edges not deburred, and some things you'll just have to imagine.
And it's not always the sloppy builders. Sometimes very meticulous builders mess up. It's really easy to overlook something when you look at it every day.
That's why even good tech counselors need inspections.
 
Larry

This right on target. I see too little involving safety and aircraft standards posted on the list. There is not one "go to" publication that gives this information to the builder. People think going by the plans will take care of it, but this important information is just not there.

Some friends and I had traveled out of town and were looking at several RV projects at one of our fuel stops. I had noticed a race care fuel pump in one of the planes being built and voiced my concern to my friends. Sometime later a builder from the airport called me to ask about my concerns. Come to find out the plane had an engine stoppage and barely made it back to the airport. The plane was damaged with no injuries to the pilot. One of my friends had talked to the builder after the incident and mentioned what I had said. I now feel responsible for not mentioning a safety concern that I had and vowed to always follow thru when something is noticed.

My recent post on pre-first flight inspections is for the same reason. I see real safety problems during inspections. Helping builders assemble safer airplanes is the goal.

Some replies seem to think this is about visual/cosmetic mistakes. It is not. It is about mistakes that threaten aircraft safety. The problem with cosmetic mistakes is that people feel that these airplanes are not safe. This is not always the case. Also, a plane that looks great can have hidden problems that can be dangerous.

It is always said that one can not have too many eyes looking over the project. This of little help. What do these people know? There are excellent builders, DAR's, A&P's, tech inspectors, etc. all over the country. Those are the ones you want looking at your plane. Do not pick them by how much you like them, how well they speak (or spell), how nice there plane looks, or just recommended by someone who knows little about nothing. Choose the person or persons like you would a lawyer, doctor or financial adviser.

George Meketa
RV8
 
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Excellent topic Larry, and it has generated some great comments! I like to feel that as a good Tech Counselor, I will always point out things that I see as a safety problem - or at least ask a question about it. I actually find that presenting the "problem" as a question is a great way to get the builder talking about it in a non-confrontational way. if you start with a confrontation, the walls go up, and it becomes that much harder to make your point.

I generally see safety problems in the system area as well, and fuel systems are my biggest concern. I agree that folks tend to zero in on cosmetics, and I really am not interested in that - my own airplane is very, very "Van's Stock", and I spent my time making the plumbing and wiring as good as I could get them.

Everyone sees different things, which is a good reason to get numerous A&P's, DAR's, TC's looking at it. It's funny how every time someone new looks at a project, they find something different - and something that someone else who was an "expert" missed. That's why you want numerous different visits, just like George said.

Stay safe, be open to constructive criticism!

Paul
 
Just went thru the same thing a few weeks ago . On my first visit of a new Rans S7 I noticed that the mounting ear (lack of better name) that the strut attaches to the wing was not sanded. I would say they were lazer cut or similar as you could see the cutting marks. I only met this guy several times and did not want to come off as a smart a##. I later discussed this with a few close builders and was advised to let this new builder know. On my next visit I discussed this with him and he said he had no idea it had to be sanded and that it was not in the instructions. He said he would call Rans or their rep. and find a solution.
Most people don't realise the amount of research needed above and beyond the plans in order to build an aircraft. I build my Rotorway before the days of forums like this one and let me tell you that these forums give a new builder a quantum leap head start. These forums must be responsible for increasing safety in general aviation.
 
Good point. Aviation can be very unforgiving.

It always bothers me when I here others bashing peoples abilities. We should offer advise and show the new guy the "secret ninja tricks" rather than watch him screw up. We're all in this together. We're all learning somthing while doing these planes
 
Very interesting topic. I haven't been in a position where I'm dealing with builders much, a little here and there. Mostly I've been on the side of buyers, either doing pre-buys or condition inspections. I've done a couple on aircraft where I had either to do major work, or look VERY closely at the quality of some of the work.

One where a wing and been rebuilt... and the rebuild work was much lower than the rest of the aircraft. And another where I had to add missing rivets... I don't know how that one got signed off in the first place.

I've also noticed FUEL systems is a BIG problem, and electrical seems to be spotty, some great, some not so.

Fuel systems... just wow. Not just on RV's either, Glasairs and Lancairs get really creative sometimes too.
 
THE Cassutt!!

In the 70's a guy called me to fly his Cassutt since it scared him on the first flight. He'd been by to visit me and look at my flying Cassutt.

When we (an A@P friend) arrived, I asked him where the intake for the engine was. He replied "It's a Posa carb, don't use no air!"" !!! OK, so I asked where the throttle knob came from..."A Kenworth gear shifter"...it was huge...and then the topper..."Oh the gas knob works backerds...push in to slow down, pull it out to speed up!!!":eek:

There were no elevator stops and they moved around 60 degrees up and down.

The stabilizer had what appeared to be 5-10 degrees leading edge down angle...supposed to be parallel to the upper longeron. When I asked him what scared him, he said that it wanted to do a loop!! Duh!..

The leading edges of the wings are 1" X 1" spruce with one edge facing forward and supposed to be radiused nicely acccording to the plans. His were sharp and no radius...I could only imagine the snappy stall characteristics.

You'd be surprised...
 
What we have seen

George (444TX) and I have done a bunch of inspections together and have seen some really scary things. We have inspected new builds and flying planes that were purchased. In answer to some previous posters, I'll list some of them:
-Of the 4 HS front spar bolts, all 4 were installed, but only two of them had nuts on them and one of those nuts was tightened down on a rivet shop head so that only a part of the nut was tightened down onto something! This plane had over 200 hours on it!!!
-Missing spar bolts.
-Aileron stops made out of bare aluminum angle, mounted on the front of the spar. The contrul column hit on these stops and they were grinding grooves on the control column. (A flying plane, obviously.)
-Fuel lines run through the firewall with no protection and no filler in the holes.
-On the retaining bolt that attached the long elevator tube to the bellcrank at the tail, the nut was only on finger tight leaving a loose bolt and a lot of treads exposed. (Flying plane.)
-Flap hinge pin sticking throught the aileron bracket and acting as a stop on the aileron hinge bracket.
-HS rear spar attach points, the fuselage pieces, that looked like they were made with a chain saw.
-Engine controls hooked up to work in reverse.
-Bolts with nuts that were "shanked out", meaning the bolt was too long and not holding properly. Usually just needs washers or a shorter bolt.
-Loose B nuts in fuel lines.
The list goes on and on, and it can be plain scary.
As George, and others, have pointed out, it's best to find a few knowledgeable people and ask them to inspect your work throughout the building process. A caucus of friends looking things over usually doesn't get much accomplished. It may find a few obvious items and can lead to a false sense of security. I have found that the best inspections involve one to three persons and a very serious attitude.
I like things to look pretty as much as the next guy, but not everyone cares about loooks, as long as it flies, so I'm sensitive to that, but we still need to identify safety defects!
George and I are developing a checklist, similar to a preflight checklist, for inspecting, as I'm sure other inspectors have done for their own use, in an effort to create a methodical and systematic method of putting eyes an every major part of the plane. We think that this would benefit builders as well as inspectors, so if there is any interest, we'll post it on Doug's site after we tweak it a little more, this week end. Of course we are always open to criticism on items we may not have listed, since it is easy to miss or forget something when making the list. (That's why we need lists!)
Helping other builders can be fun, rewarding and a lot of trouble, but if it helps one person from making a smoking hole in the ground, it's worth it.
 
Back long before I was a builder I watched a guy doing final assembly on an autogyro. He snapped the throughbolt on the throttle lever with too much torque (as I recall it was a #3 about 2" long.) He looked the whole situation over and went over and puked, it scared him so bad. He replaced all the bolts in the rotor head and used a torque wrench that time. I never heard of him having any problems.

I ask to see a builder's torque wrench first thing. Overtorque isn't something easily spotted and no amount of torque seal can fix it! I worry more about that than something like a loose fitting that is relatively easy to spot. I also have seen assemblies where edge deburring was skipped and can not understand why--it is such an easy step. In my limited experience, generally if the cosmetics are good, the critical stuff is good too. If the cosmetics are second rate, look again at the critical items.

Bob Kelly
 
excellent info here

Excellent stuff.

A checklist is a good idea. I too have seen some scary things and on flying planes. Most problems are flight control systems and wiring. Basic structure is usually OK.
The issue I have is that the plane has been flying for x number of years and in that time has been through x number of annual inspections and these problems still exist. How does that happen and safety issues are allowed to continue to fly?? A lack of quality inspections by experienced people is one reason.
The root cause is a lack of info on assembly of systems and standard practices which are not in the builders manual/plans as others have said. The other cause is that the builder is not a maintenance person and lacks the training and experience of doing inspections for flight controls, systems etc.
The builder may have excellent workmanship and know every rivet in the wing and every former in the fuselage but that doesn't help when troubleshooting a snag or rectifying an engine problem. The skils and knowledge required to build the plane aren't quite the same as those necessary to maintain it.
Perhaps it would be a good idea for a Sport Air Workshop on inspection techniques (pre-flight and annual) and standard practices. I wonder how many pilots/builders would attend? There seems to be a hunger for this kind of info and I think it could be useful to help builders become maintainers and inspectors of there now finished and flying planes.
It's good to share horror stories of the stuff DAR's and Tech Counsellors have seen but the only way to defeat bad ideas is with better ideas. Sharing and spreading the knowledge is a good thing and many people here are interested in that which helps build safer airplanes.
Phil
 
Ever come through Fernie?

Phil, if you ever get down to Fernie and have time to look over my project I would sure welcome that. When building in a location far from knowledgable folks it is difficult to get second opinions!
 
Torque on fuel lines

Great thread. I noticed that there is mention of torquing the aluminum fuel line fittings. Perhaps someone can tell me how to get a torque wrench (i.e., a socket) onto one of those AN fittings with a tube coming out of it! Am I missing something in my toolbox?

thanks,
greg
 
lorne green said:
Hey Greg, try googling "crow foot" wrench for your torque wrench. Available at Napa, Sears etc.
regards,
Click to expand...

Actually an AC43.13 would be a good addition too. AN Flare fittings don't get torqued to a value, they get torqued to one flat past hand tight. So once the flare is sitting on the fitting and the B nut is as tight as you can get it by hand, turn it one flat, (1/6 of a turn) and you hit the torque...

I usually go a little tighter than that myself, but that is what I was taught in A&P school.
 
osxuser said:
AN Flare fittings don't get torqued to a value, they get torqued to one flat past hand tight. So once the flare is sitting on the fitting and the B nut is as tight as you can get it by hand, turn it one flat, (1/6 of a turn) and you hit the torque...
Click to expand...

????
AC 43.13 Table 9-2 gives torque values for AN-818 flare tube coupling nuts.
 
It can be difficult to talk to some builders.
I 've seen one project where the builder didn't deburr any edges. I've raised this with him several times but he just say's his inspector who's an A&P has signed off everything as ok.
It worries me to see rear spar attachments that you can still see the cutting marks on.
But after having been brushed off what do you do?
 
On the first chat about it I showed him chapter 5 and explained. He just said "Oh I thought that was to do with anything you cut yourself". So never bothered with anything that had been cut by Van's.
After 3 attemps it's difficult to know what to do.
 
osxuser said:
Actually an AC43.13 would be a good addition too. AN Flare fittings don't get torqued to a value, they get torqued to one flat past hand tight. So once the flare is sitting on the fitting and the B nut is as tight as you can get it by hand, turn it one flat, (1/6 of a turn) and you hit the torque...

I usually go a little tighter than that myself, but that is what I was taught in A&P school.
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I've heard this from numerous A&Ps and Sport Aviation articles as well. The only question that remains is how tight is "hand" tight.

What I usually do is put a bolt in the vise and torque it to the values listed for Alum. AN fittings in my Standard Aircraft Handbook. Once the bolt is torqued, I then put an open-end wrench on it to get a feel for how tight it is. Then I go tighten the AN fitting keeping my hand on the same place on the larger wrench as I had it on my torqued bolt.

If anyone can provide an easy way to apply the formula for a crow's foot I'd appreciate that too. I think I've seen one elsewhere, but didn't really understand it.
 
90 degree angle

If I recall correctly if you use the crowsfoot at a 90 degree angle you do not have to apply the formula. That's from a military Technical Order.
 
Dave Taylor said:
If I recall correctly if you use the crowsfoot at a 90 degree angle you do not have to apply the formula. That's from a military Technical Order.
Click to expand...

Correct.

Or you can go to the previously mentioned AC 43.13...It has a section that helps you make the value adjustments depending on what tool you are adding to the torque wrench.
 
Beauty...not just skin deep.

videobobk said:
In my limited experience, generally if the cosmetics are good, the critical stuff is good too. If the cosmetics are second rate, look again at the critical items.

Bob Kelly
Click to expand...

Bob, I think your comments are very true. As an aircraft judge myself I tend to find that when it comes to amateur built aircraft beauty is in fact NOT JUST SKIN DEEP.

In other words people with the propensity to produce high quality can't turn the characteristic on and off at various parts of the plane. As a result if the plane's well crafted on the outside there's a fairly good chance it will be well crafted everywhere.

On the other hand if the aircraft is terrible outside it'll invariably be terrible inside (including systems) as well.

This is a really good thread. And about time. In some respects it has almost been regarded as politically incorrect to raise the issue of shoddy RV workmanship on this forum.

But I have no doubt that there are many people who do not have the correct skills, knowledge, or attitudes to build a safe plane.

And much horrific workmanship can be virtually impossible to detect. The worst things I have seen I have witnessed during the dismantling of RVs that have been stripped down after a crash.

In one instance I estimated that less than 30% of the wing rib to spar rivets were within spec. Most were totally creamed and lopsided and SOME HOLES HAD NO RIVETS AT ALL.

In another instance the builder had left bolts out of the main wing spar to fuselage carry through connection. And other bolts had no nuts on them !!!!

On another RV the builder had installed the wings when the fuselage was upside down and got the wing incidence reversed which resulted in the hole in the rear spar being incorrectly located (there is only ONE 5/16" bolt in that location). No problem....he just corrected the wing incidence and drilled new holes in the rear spars right next to the old holes. There was literally LESS THAN 1/8" BETWEEN THE HOLES AND VIRTUALLY NO EDGE DISTANCE WHATSOEVER. He turned the rear spar into swiss cheese. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. And he flew this plane for a couple of hundred hours before he crashed.

Now I'm VERY select about what amateur built planes I fly in. If they look crappy on the outside I won't go in them.

Many builders say: " I built it to go, not to show...it's a bit rough but it's safe". But sometimes they're NOT safe at all.

The many comments about the susceptibility for system failures is also spot on. I get discouraged by the disproportionate number of RV incidents involving engine failures. Builders can often get away with poor workmanship on the hull, particularly on RVs, due to the substantial design safety margin. But there's no redundancy at all in the fuel system from the selector forward. One strike and you're out.
 
Thanks

for the tips on torquing those AN fittings. I work with vacuum systems (similar hardware) and have a sense for how tight these type of fittings need to be (like the 1/6 turn rule) but will probably get myself a crows foot fitting for the wrench. I wasn't sure whether the crows foot would have the same torque value as a normal socket, but looks like there are options out there (the 90 degree rule or some conversion tables). Anyway, thanks all for making this a safer build!

greg
 
One exception I have found....

Captain Avgas said:
Bob, I think your comments are very true. As an aircraft judge myself I tend to find that when it comes to amateur built aircraft beauty is in fact NOT JUST SKIN DEEP.

In other words people with the propensity to produce high quality can't turn the characteristic on and off at various parts of the plane. As a result if the plane's well crafted on the outside there's a fairly good chance it will be well crafted everywhere.

On the other hand if the aircraft is terrible outside it'll invariably be terrible inside (including systems) as well.

......
Click to expand...

...is that a builder good at metal/mechanical work might not understand electrics/electronics, and the quality might diverge here if he/she does not recognize their limitations...:(

gil A
 
fl-mike said:
????
AC 43.13 Table 9-2 gives torque values for AN-818 flare tube coupling nuts.
Click to expand...

I should have clarified. I was not saying that there isn't a proper torque, but if these things get cross-threaded, it can be very hard for someone that is inexperienced to detect until it leaks. Tightening by hand, and torquing 1/6th of a turn eliminates that problem.
 
Captain Avgas said:
But I have no doubt that there are many people who do not have the correct skills, knowledge, or attitudes to build a safe plane.

And much horrific workmanship can be virtually impossible to detect. The worst things I have seen I have witnessed during the dismantling of RVs that have been stripped down after a crash.

In one instance I estimated that less than 30% of the wing rib to spar rivets were within spec. Most were totally creamed and lopsided and SOME HOLES HAD NO RIVETS AT ALL.

In another instance the builder had left bolts out of the main wing spar to fuselage carry through connection. And other bolts had no nuts on them !!!!

On another RV the builder had installed the wings when the fuselage was upside down and got the wing incidence reversed which resulted in the hole in the rear spar being incorrectly located (there is only ONE 5/16" bolt in that location). No problem....he just corrected the wing incidence and drilled new holes in the rear spars right next to the old holes. There was literally LESS THAN 1/8" BETWEEN THE HOLES AND VIRTUALLY NO EDGE DISTANCE WHATSOEVER. He turned the rear spar into swiss cheese. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. And he flew this plane for a couple of hundred hours before he crashed..
Click to expand...
Bob-
I may have misread your post, but from the above portion you seem to imply that you've seen a lot of planes that have crashed due to structural failures that were the result of poor workmanship. Or, did you just mean that the planes you've seen that have crashed from pilot or systems failures just happened to have non-crash-related structural issues as well?

I've seen reports of a lot of planes that have crashed due to systems failures, but I've seen very few RV crashes that were attributed to anything structural, builder-related or not. I'd be interested in being pointed to the results if I'm mistaken.

I think for most builder's there is no correlation between the occasional cosmetic mistake or imperfectly set rivet and the overall airworthiness of the aircraft. Chronic cosmetic or riveting issues may be a different story.
 
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Anyone want to visit Reno?

So, to follow up on this, I would love to have any experienced builder visit me here in Reno to provide another set of eyes looking for places that I could improve my work or fix potential safety issues. Currently I'm working out of my garage, but will be moving to a hangar at 4SD (Stead, just N of Reno) by sometime in August. If' you're passing through the area, by all means let me know if you can spare a couple of hours and I'll pick you up at the airport etc.

cheers,
greg
 
alpinelakespilot2000 said:
I think for most builder's there is no correlation between the occasional cosmetic mistake or imperfectly set rivet and the overall airworthiness of the aircraft.
Click to expand...

Steve, I hardly think the faults I discussed (wing bolts missing etc) could be considered "cosmetic mistakes" by anyone.

Having said that, here's a few reasons to aim for excellence in airframe construction:

1. Improved aesthetics.
2. Better resale value.
3. Greater personal satisfaction.
4. Safer at the edges of the flight envelope.
5. More survivable in a crash.
6. The Vans kits will cost exactly the same whether one builds a nice aircraft
or a complete dog.
 
What a Great Thread. I am always so happy to have an RV Builder, EAA Tech Counsoler, AP or anyone else look at my airplane. I appreciate it and also anything critical one might say. One of my life's sayings is "That You Make Your Own Luck!" I can't begin to calculate how many hours I have spent researching/thinking about how I want to accomplish something on my plane (I don't log these hours), I have to see in my mind the end result before I start a task. It's kinda like what Jack Nicholas said, "You have to be able to visualize the shot before you make it."

I have gained so much by reading this Forum, Thanks. to everyone.
 
wing bolts

On my 6A I believe there are one or two wing bolts that you cannot put a nut on because of how they line up with the gear.

Hans
 
nucleus said:
On my 6A I believe there are one or two wing bolts that you cannot put a nut on because of how they line up with the gear.

Hans
Click to expand...
ALL wing attach bolts MUST have nuts! Not sure which ones you are talking about, but I've inspected a LOT of -6As and they all have nuts on all bolts. Some are difficult and you may have to put the nut in place before putting the bolt in, but they can be done.
 
Or how about this recent post. I'm not trying to embarrass the poster, but this gives me the chills:

I was very concerned about the crimp on connectors even using high quality crimpers. It seemed if you worked the wire after you crimped it it sometimes would loosen up. I had many experienced builders show me how to crimp, but the result was often the same, the connection would still loosen up. As I consider the electrical systems (all glass) perhaps the most important (extremely fearful of electrical fire), I finally settled on the following method and it seems to work, I haven;t been able to pull off any of the connectors and I have tried.

I simply slide on about a 3/8" inch of shrink tube over the wire and then a 1/2" piece that will barely go over the connector body, crimp the connector, slide the smaller piece up behind the connector tight, slide the larger piece up over the body of the connector, then shrink all with a heat gun. The connector may loosen, but it is going to hold the wire in place touching the connector.
Click to expand...
 
What about bad DAR's?

I've seen a DAR pass over some huge mistakes and then compliment the builder. That was after I made many comments to the builder to fix the problems.:mad:
 
Very Interesting!

N916K said:
I've seen a DAR pass over some huge mistakes and then compliment the builder. That was after I made many comments to the builder to fix the problems.:mad:
Click to expand...
Did the DAR just miss the mistakes? If so, it needs to be called to his attention. I consider myself a pretty thorough inspector. If I miss something, I would very much appreciate being corrected. Otherwise, I might miss it again.
Now, DARs are NOT REQUIRED to do a thorough inspection but most of us do as a service to you.
 
Inspection check list clarification

I just wanted to make sure credit is given where it is due.
George Meketa and I both developed the checklist and tips in the document that Doug posted. Actually, the tips page was basically a reprint of an earlier post from George, that got us thinking about sharing our stuff.
Hopefully it will come in handy for builders. We think it would be useful for a builder as he/she goes along in the process, as well as for an inspection checklist.
Feel free to change, add and delete to suit your needs. We will be improving it every chance we get and a little input from others is always welcome.
 
WHERE IS the list?

sf3543 said:
I just wanted to make sure credit is given where it is due.
George Meketa and I both developed the checklist and tips in the document that Doug posted.
Feel free to change, add and delete to suit your needs. We will be improving it every chance we get and a little input from others is always welcome.
Click to expand...
WHERE DID DOUG POST THIS LIST?..........thanks.........:eek:
 
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