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  #11  
Old 02-19-2021, 10:21 PM
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Nick Nick is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Rosharon, TX
Posts: 151
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Another SDS user here. Absolutely love mine. As far as SDS vs EFII, do some searches and go with who makes you more comfortable.
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Nick "Rehab" Nafsinger
91TS Rosharon, TX
RV-4 Bought 2019, Day to Day Restoration while still flying. SDS EFI IO-360, Hartzell CS, DanH inspired custom intake, G3x Panel
RV-8 SB, "Back burner project."
RV-10 Built 2010, Sold 2019
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  #12  
Old 02-20-2021, 07:46 AM
TS Flightlines TS Flightlines is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ridgeland, SC
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We're plumbing more SDS systems than EFii right now--have a couple in beta test. If you hadnt previously planned for a duplex system--especially in the cabin and tanks---then you need to STOP and think about how all of this works together.

Tom
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Tom Swearengen, TS Flightlines LLC, AS Flightlines
Joint Venture with Aircraft Specialty
Teflon Hose Assemblies for Experimentals
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RV7 Tail Kit Completed, Fuse started-Pay as I go Plan
Ridgeland, SC
www.tsflightlines.com, www.asflightlines.com
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  #13  
Old 02-20-2021, 07:54 AM
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Toobuilder Toobuilder is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mojave
Posts: 4,764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Jeff, it may be best to start by realizing what EFI will or will not do for your RV-10. Is there a particular area of operation in which you would like better performance and control?
...and this is THE issue here. What exactly is the OP trying to get out of the system? "better" performance is a very broad term, and this happens to be one area where the vendors of the two systems will tell a prospective customer a different tale.

Talk to both guys - Then make your decision.
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WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.

Michael Robinson
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Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
RV-8 - SDS CPI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
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  #14  
Old 02-20-2021, 08:19 AM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 2,397
Default Cracks me up...

The "best" system is the one that respondent purchased...

I can say that my Barrett IO-540 with EFII starts like a car, every time, hot or cold. Programming is very easy, and is done on the fly. The engine runs very smooth and though I am still in testing, the EGT spread is within about 8 degrees across six cylinders.

Do your own research, talk to people that run the different systems, and make your choice; it will likely turn out fine either way.

Sounds like Ford's and Chevys with a few Dodges thrown in...
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Phase I COMPLETE!

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  #15  
Old 02-20-2021, 08:36 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketman1988 View Post
The engine runs very smooth and though I am still in testing, the EGT spread is within about 8 degrees across six cylinders.
You do realize temperature spread has nothing to do with GAMI spread? The goal is to see them all peak at the same time, regardless of their individual indicated temperatures.
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  #16  
Old 02-20-2021, 10:42 AM
Ralph Inkster Ralph Inkster is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 1,249
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Now, now... Back to the original topic, again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jt rotor guy View Post
I am stepping into an unknown area here. I have an injected 540 but looking to step that up and get better performance and control. I am not an engine guy so looking for input to make my 540 fly the best. Thanks to all that can give feedback
Jt rotor guy - can you describe the shortfalls in your current FI system you want to improve on, & what performance/operational improvements you would like to see by changing it out for a EFI system?
If you list them, we can reply with our experiences and results, objectively (wishfull thinking on my part...)
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built a few RVs, rebuilt a few more, hot rodded more, & maintained/updated a big bunch more
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  #17  
Old 02-22-2021, 12:34 PM
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akschu akschu is offline
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Houston, Alaska
Posts: 319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toobuilder View Post
...and this is THE issue here. What exactly is the OP trying to get out of the system? "better" performance is a very broad term, and this happens to be one area where the vendors of the two systems will tell a prospective customer a different tale.

Talk to both guys - Then make your decision.
I've talked to both, but missed this... I think.... what are you hinting at?

The vibe I got was this:

SDS seemed super programmable and can do whatever you want. The platform had a lot of clever CNC machined parts to fit whatever needs you have.

EFII seemed more install and forget. More time seems to have been spent on polishing the interface and install than providing flexibility.

As for better performance, I don't think any EFI system is going to produce more HP in our application, and better economy really boils down to LOP.

When I talked to both vendors SDS couldn't do individual injector trim on a 6cyl engine because the EM-5 only has 4 injector drivers, so they get around that by using two EM-5s with one driving 3 injectors and the other driving the other three. Should one EM-5 fail, then we go back to batch firing.

EFII could do individual injector trim, but it didn't sound like anybody really does and that LOP tuning wasn't as much of a thing.

Another difference was the failover. The SDS functionally uses a relay to assign which EM-5 is driving the injector so that it fails mechanically to the seconary EM-5, while EFII seems to have a FET on the injector output then wires both CPUs to the injector and then only has one active at a time.

At the end of the day I don't trust an open loop EFI system to lean my airplane, so that means knob and EGT/CHT gauges. At that point I wanted to avoid the additional fuel system complexity, and just called up Don and bought a FM-150.

For me, I think the only thing that EFI buys you is the ability to run pretty much any fuel as it doesn't appear to buy you any additional HP or economy.

schu
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  #18  
Old 02-22-2021, 01:49 PM
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rcpaisley rcpaisley is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Upland, CA
Posts: 290
Default EFII

The bottom line is: No one ever goes back to the old engine systems once they experience how much better these engines run with modern engine management. The engines start better, run smoother, are more efficient and make more HP.

A good comparison is how a 1960 car runs vs a new car.

As far as supplier options- do your homework, your answer will be clear.

Robert
EFII
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Last edited by Mike S : 02-22-2021 at 02:32 PM.
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  #19  
Old 02-22-2021, 02:23 PM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcpaisley View Post
The bottom line is: No one ever goes back to the old engine systems once they experience how much better these engines run with modern engine management. The engines start better, run smoother, are more efficient and make more HP.

Robert
EFII
I would be very interested in some data to support this statement. I’ve seen the claims by EFII and SDS on more power and higher efficiency, but have not seen supporting data for these claims - such as on the EFII website “Up to 10% more power”.

Perhaps these claim have a base of standard mags for comparison? Are the claims based on tuning one-off race engines or for the 99.9% of us flying behind a standard Lycoming?

Specifically, if there is data to show more power and/or higher efficiency on a standard Lycoming engine running traditional fuel injection, with balanced injector nozzles and electronic ignition (like dual pMags), please provide.

Call
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  #20  
Old 02-22-2021, 03:04 PM
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rcpaisley rcpaisley is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Upland, CA
Posts: 290
Default EFII

Carl,
You can get endless reports here from people who have run traditional systems as well as EFII on the same engine - this is your best comparison data. The vast majority of this group will tell you how much better their engine runs with EFII at all operating points.

We are closing in on 700 installations now, there is no going back for those of us who have experienced the benefits of a modern Lyc engine.

The biggest challenge of mechanical injection is achieving fuel balance between the cylinders - there is no positive control of the fuel distribution like there is with electronic injection. You can try to balance mechanical injection at one operating point with precision injectors. But the balance will fall apart at every other operating point. And it's really bad at low spider pressures such as during engine starting (hello hot start).

If you want the most out of your engine - there isn't much question of what will give you that result.

Robert
EFII
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