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  #11  
Old 11-22-2017, 02:49 PM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
I have to agree with Jim. I learned to fly in a Cessna 150. My instructor taught me to fly it like a taildragger. i.e. "If it is possible to get the nose wheel off the ground, it shouldn't be on the ground!"
Mel, that's good pay-it-forward advice.

I got a flight review in a 152. I'd never flown one before. Third landing, the non-tailwheel CFI exclaimed "You don't need to get the nose that high in the air!". I explained it was less pitch than a typical three point. He was curious, so we went and flew my Cub. That's when I found he had also never flown a stick. It's all new to somebody.

Paul, good rules, although I'd temper the one about brakes. They gotta learn to use them sooner or later. It's just another skill.
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  #12  
Old 11-22-2017, 06:09 PM
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mrblob mrblob is offline
 
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Hey all,
I agree, these really do apply to tricycle gear, too. Most tailwheel students show up with 152 or 172 time, and none of these habits well developed. As Dan's example illustrates, even a lot of CFIs have never thought about ground handling from this perspective.

Also, a fair point about the staying off the brakes. You're absolutely right, you've got to learn about proper braking at some point. I stress these rules when a new student first shows up, and then we adapt from there.

Obviously, these aren't absolutes, but "the five suggestions to be applied at your discretion" didn't have the same ring to it ;-)

Anyway, it's all good discussion. Any other pointers that you would include when introducing somebody to tailwheel (or teaching ground handling properly)?
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  #13  
Old 11-22-2017, 06:50 PM
dtw_rv6 dtw_rv6 is offline
 
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I was a back seater student on a 172 flight with my instructor and a buddy up front. When the airplane squatted back on the tail and started grinding on the rear tie down ring, my buddy started to let the nose down by releasing back pressure. The instructor swatted him and firmly corrected him to NEVER release full back pressure until the wheel comes down by itself. He corrected to full aft pressure, and the nose didn't come down until we nearly came to a halt on the runway.

I'm still not convinced that he was overkilling the lesson a little, but on every landing we ever did in the C140, he was *always* saying "Full stall, full aft on the stick until it stops flying".

That was 25 years ago, and I still hear him in my head on every landing. He said it would save my life - it must be working

Don

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Mel, that's good pay-it-forward advice.

I got a flight review in a 152. I'd never flown one before. Third landing, the non-tailwheel CFI exclaimed "You don't need to get the nose that high in the air!". I explained it was less pitch than a typical three point. He was curious, so we went and flew my Cub. That's when I found he had also never flown a stick. It's all new to somebody.

Paul, good rules, although I'd temper the one about brakes. They gotta learn to use them sooner or later. It's just another skill.
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  #14  
Old 11-23-2017, 07:56 AM
David-aviator David-aviator is offline
 
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From old pilot perspective, excellent introduction to flying.
Wish I had seen something like that in beginning.
Good luck developing your training system, it will work for TW or NW.
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  #15  
Old 11-23-2017, 11:27 AM
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MikeyDale MikeyDale is offline
 
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I got my early training in a John Deere 4440 pulling a 9 row lister! The markers left a small centerline mark and I wanted the straightest rows in the county! The outside busters would catch a little more dirt every so often and pull you in that direction just like a crosswind does to the rudder. The only way to keep your rows straight would be to tap that opposite brake to stay straight! I had thousands of hours of training before I ever considered getting my pilots license!
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  #16  
Old 01-13-2021, 01:55 PM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is online now
 
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After buying a nosedragger RV-12 to learn how to fly in, my first lessons ( in mode C airspace Class D towered airport in So CA) were learning how to taxi, and how to use the brakes, to keep you out of the weeds.

First instructor was very poor in showing me how toe brakes actually work, ie how to physically actuate them. 62 years old an a visual learner. Let that instructor go... finally found a great instructor. 26 year old corporate pilot. Don't tell it, demonstrate it, do it, point it out to us, how it's done. No One is staring at the instructors feet when trying to keep it on the centerline, therein lies the problem.

Learn to taxi, throttle control, brakes and radio work, if necessary, before you even get to anything else.
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  #17  
Old 01-13-2021, 03:55 PM
Tom Martin Tom Martin is offline
 
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Very good post. I would suggest that #4 “go around” should be rule number one. Consider every landing to be a go around. If you are happy then let her land. The frame of mind should ne go around.
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  #18  
Old 01-13-2021, 04:00 PM
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N804RV N804RV is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
..."If it is possible to get the nose wheel off the ground, it shouldn't be on the ground!"...
Or said another way, "The nose wheel is only there to keep the prop off the ground when the aircraft is not moving."
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  #19  
Old 01-13-2021, 05:55 PM
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Laird Laird is offline
 
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Nice job Paul. Keep up the good work.
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  #20  
Old 01-15-2021, 07:30 AM
Christopher Murphy Christopher Murphy is offline
 
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Default Made me chuckle

Quote:
Originally Posted by 74-07 View Post
Old pro told me years ago, "All you have to do is ALWAYS keep the little wheel behind the big ones!"
I did alot of instruction in conventional gear airplanes , mostly experienced nose wheel pilots. What I experienced was that the real threat was pilot would start the airplane crow hopping.

Keeping the little wheel behind the big wheels is more like a goal than a process. Like when the nascar crew chief tells the driver to just keep it off the wall

Cm
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