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  #1  
Old 10-29-2021, 07:25 AM
Florida Boy Florida Boy is offline
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Melbourne, FL
Posts: 36
Default Fuel Flow Transducer Mounting-EXP 119

I'm not too thrilled about the mounting location and method for the FT60 transducer as shown in the plans. It is to be mounted on two large hose clamps around the intake pipes on the lower left side next to the oil sump. I think there must be a better way to install the device. I've read that others have moved it up near the divider, but would rather avoid new lines, etc.

I'll try to attach two pictures of the Plans recommended install, but just in case they don't come through, here is the question:
Just behind the transducer, on the left side of the oil sump, there are two drilled and tapped holes with a machined mounting surface that was designed for something (?) by Lycoming. Why not make a bracket secured into the two holes to support the transducer? Has anyone tried that method?

By the way, Raven (makers of inverted oil systems) tells me they've never seen this particular design sump and are puzzled as to how they could build an inverted oil system to fit it. Any experience, or anybody know if Lycoming is using someone to build this sump design for them?
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  #2  
Old 10-29-2021, 07:39 AM
TS Flightlines TS Flightlines is online now
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ridgeland, SC
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Default

Randy---we did this for a client in the spring that wanted a mounting bracket install. WE modified that stock Vans RV14 hose installation to move the transducer forward slightly to mount on the bracket. He built the bracket and gave us the hose lengths he wanted.

Yes it can be done.

Tom
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Tom Swearengen, TS Flightlines LLC, AS Flightlines
Joint Venture with Aircraft Specialty
Teflon Hose Assemblies for Experimentals
Proud Vendor for RV1, Donator to VAF
RV7A Tail Kit Completed, Fuse started-Pay as I go Plan, on hold while we develop new products for RV builders
Ridgeland, SC
www.tsflightlines.com, www.asflightlines.com
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  #3  
Old 10-29-2021, 08:00 AM
PilotjohnS PilotjohnS is online now
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Southwest
Posts: 1,829
Default Hose secure

1) On that last picture, with that big loop of hose, does the hose need to be secured with adel clamps to the engine mount, or is it better to leave as is for engine shake? I am going to have the same routing.

2) also, the fuel pressure hose is fire sleeved, is that necessary? My Vans supplied hose is not.
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WARNING! Information presented in this post is my opinion. All users of info have sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for their use.

Dues paid 2021, worth every penny

RV9A- Status:
95% done, 5% left to go
Electrical/Panel done
Firewall Forward 95% done (waiting on fiberglass to be done)
Fiberglass 5%
www.pilotjohnsrv9.blogspot.com

Last edited by PilotjohnS : 10-29-2021 at 08:04 AM.
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  #4  
Old 10-29-2021, 08:22 AM
TS Flightlines TS Flightlines is online now
 
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Location: Ridgeland, SC
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John---he wanted the loop, and these were preliminary pics. Yes---at least 1 adel clamp would do.
On the firesleeving of the fuel pressure hose----we firesleeve ALL FWF hoses--except the MAP hose. Vans originall did not sleeve the pressure hoses or the cooler hoses. We felt that it was prudent to protect them. Pictured are our integral versions.

Tom
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Tom Swearengen, TS Flightlines LLC, AS Flightlines
Joint Venture with Aircraft Specialty
Teflon Hose Assemblies for Experimentals
Proud Vendor for RV1, Donator to VAF
RV7A Tail Kit Completed, Fuse started-Pay as I go Plan, on hold while we develop new products for RV builders
Ridgeland, SC
www.tsflightlines.com, www.asflightlines.com
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  #5  
Old 10-29-2021, 09:51 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Location: 08A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS Flightlines View Post
..we did this for a client in the spring that wanted a mounting bracket install.
I like the bracket, as compared to the adels on the intake tubes. I know the plans install works, but I hate to see the hose run so close to the exhaust headers.

Quote:
---he wanted the loop, and these were preliminary pics.
Let's hope he changed his mind. There is no reason to have it, and at least one good reason to ditch it...the additional length is a fuel heater.
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  #6  
Old 10-29-2021, 10:28 AM
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bjdecker bjdecker is offline
 
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Location: Georgetown, TX
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Ref OP..

Lycoming did their own cold air induction for the IO-390-Cxxx (from which the EXP119 is derived). Part number 42A28515. As illustrated in the Lycoming IO-390-C Parts manual

https://www.lycoming.com/sites/defau...C-IO-390-C.pdf
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  #7  
Old 10-29-2021, 10:44 AM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is online now
 
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After few weeks of chasing a “why does fuel flow change with altitude” problem on an RV-14A, including replacing the sender and trying a new mount as other have done, we ended up moving the sender away from the per plans location. The problem went away. As a side note it seems others had the same problem. In short, the sender work fine until passing above 5K’-7K’. At that point the fuel flow sender sent in pulses to read a constant 11 or so GPH, regardless of throttle or mixture setting. The unproven theory is the reduce atmospheric pressure allowed the engine vibration to establish a weird resonance with the little spinning sender wheel.

The fuel sender installation instructions recommend not mounting it on the engine. I agree. The attached photo is how I mounted it on the RV-8. This location has proven to work well. I’ll do the same location on the new RV-10. Note the absence of 90 degree fittings on the sender - the smooth bent tube fitting is ok.

If you like, mounting the sender in the line between the throttle body and the spider always seems to work. Just be careful of hard mounting the sender via a fitting or such to avoid potential fatigue failure. In other words, I recommend retaining a section of flex hose on both the inlet and outlet of the sender.

Carl
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  #8  
Old 10-29-2021, 10:52 AM
PilotjohnS PilotjohnS is online now
 
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Default Like it

Carl,
I do like it better on the mount, away from the exhaust headers (but it is in the oil cooler outlet flow).
Do you think there is enough length for the engine SHAKES?
Regardless of where I choose to mount the sender,I will need new lines. This means 2 of the 4 fuel lines that were part of the Vans firewall forward kit will need to be changed. ugh
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WARNING! Information presented in this post is my opinion. All users of info have sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for their use.

Dues paid 2021, worth every penny

RV9A- Status:
95% done, 5% left to go
Electrical/Panel done
Firewall Forward 95% done (waiting on fiberglass to be done)
Fiberglass 5%
www.pilotjohnsrv9.blogspot.com
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  #9  
Old 10-29-2021, 11:14 AM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Location: Hubbard Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Froehlich View Post
As a side note it seems others had the same problem. In short, the sender work fine until passing above 5K’-7K’. At that point the fuel flow sender sent in pulses to read a constant 11 or so GPH, regardless of throttle or mixture setting. The unproven theory is the reduce atmospheric pressure allowed the engine vibration to establish a weird resonance with the little spinning sender wheel.
This is the first time I have heard of a problem like this on an RV-14......
We have never seen this on any of our 3 (built per plans) company RV-14's

The plans recommended installation was a compromise towards minimizing the length of hose, to minimize fuel heating.
I admit it would be better if the transducer wasn't mounted directly to the engine but that is why the cushion clamps were used (A bit of vib. isolation). The specified heat shield on the #2 and #4 cyl down pipes seems to do a good job of minimizing the heat exposure (we have tested with temp sensors attached to the transducer).
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Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
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  #10  
Old 10-29-2021, 12:38 PM
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bjdecker bjdecker is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Froehlich View Post
At that point the fuel flow sender sent in pulses to read a constant 11 or so GPH, regardless of throttle or mixture setting.
Carl,

I saw this exact same problem with my RV-7, IO-360-A1B6, red cube mounted to and between the #2 & 4 intake runners.

My solution was to change the 45° AN/NPT fitting at the cube to a straight fitting, reroute/shorten the hose between fuel pump and red cube, and eliminate the hose-90° at the fuel pump.

Glad to see that I wasn't the only one that ran into this

B
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Last edited by bjdecker : 10-29-2021 at 12:43 PM.
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