Van's Air Force
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Engine or avionics?
- Thread starter AK-Models
- Start date
Don't know about others but GRT sells the EFIS boxes with no guts inside(mine was $100 refundable) so you can fab/fit the instrument panel and make up all your harnesses ahead of time. This will save you from putting out $$$ for the EFIS until you need it, and the prices come down and/or features go up as you work on other parts of the plane.
Bevan
Bevan
Mike S
Senior Curmudgeon
Yep, that is my vote.
BillL
Well Known Member
Good choice ('cause I agree 
) and you will need a lot of planning time for panel (and supporting hardware) locations, switches, and wiring runs all at the same time. Suggest you get installation dimensions and make some blocks for all the pieces to think through the process. Unless you have a solid modeler to make a complete design of the panel and forward fuse, that would be best.
This way, if you go to others for the panel assembly, you can specify wiring run lengths and split-offs from the main harness on the panel. I have spent unbelievable time in just thinking through making the wiring from my Stein build panel, making it neat.
Happy Building!
) and you will need a lot of planning time for panel (and supporting hardware) locations, switches, and wiring runs all at the same time. Suggest you get installation dimensions and make some blocks for all the pieces to think through the process. Unless you have a solid modeler to make a complete design of the panel and forward fuse, that would be best. This way, if you go to others for the panel assembly, you can specify wiring run lengths and split-offs from the main harness on the panel. I have spent unbelievable time in just thinking through making the wiring from my Stein build panel, making it neat.
Happy Building!
craigvince
Well Known Member
I always advise my customers to not buy their avionics until everything else possible is done. Obviously there's some advanced planning required when it comes to cutting your panel, but the longer you can wait, the better. Avionics change so often, you never know what might be available when you're ready.
rzbill
Well Known Member
I think I am one of the few dissenting voices in regards to engine first purchase. It's your decision. I just want to pose the counterpoint.
I did avionics first and still abide by that decision for a couple of reasons:
1) It delayed the singularly large check for engine and prop for another year.
2) Avionics and instrumentation can be peicemeal purchased to spread out the cost.
3) It minimized the pickled time for the motor.
4) It allowed me to make ALL my firewall penetrations prior to hanging the motor.
I did my own avionics wiring and panel fabrication. That took considerable time so it affected items 1 and 3. If I was buying a prewired and fabricated panel, the decision could easily be different.
The apparent main argument is the rate of change of avionics.
Did I wind up with an out of date panel? Depends on your point of view whether one is looking from steam or the bleading edge. My panel is way better than anything I ever rented. Happy. There is an insignificant difference between what I bought and what I WOULD HAVE bought a year later. (In this case, a screen with higher resolution, thats it)
I did avionics first and still abide by that decision for a couple of reasons:
1) It delayed the singularly large check for engine and prop for another year.
2) Avionics and instrumentation can be peicemeal purchased to spread out the cost.
3) It minimized the pickled time for the motor.
4) It allowed me to make ALL my firewall penetrations prior to hanging the motor.
I did my own avionics wiring and panel fabrication. That took considerable time so it affected items 1 and 3. If I was buying a prewired and fabricated panel, the decision could easily be different.
The apparent main argument is the rate of change of avionics.
Did I wind up with an out of date panel? Depends on your point of view whether one is looking from steam or the bleading edge. My panel is way better than anything I ever rented. Happy. There is an insignificant difference between what I bought and what I WOULD HAVE bought a year later. (In this case, a screen with higher resolution, thats it)
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DonFromTX
Well Known Member
Another dissenting voice. When I had to make that decision, the effects of an engine sitting around for a long period bothered me - a lot.I suppose one could pickle it and hope for the best, but why chance it? I am glad I chose Avionics first, engine last.
Jesse
Well Known Member
I think it depends on your timeframe. If you are going to do one and then do the other in a year, it would be different than if you would do the other in 2 months. I would do engine first if it's going to be a longer period of time and you plan to do an advanced instrument panel. Just let the engine builder know it won't run for a year or whatever so they can prepare is as necessary. If shorter time, instruments are nice to install when you can access the firewall for engine monitor runs, and possibly even to keep the fuselage off the gear for ease of access inside.
Engine prices are rising. Avionics prices are dropping (with a few exceptions). That should be enough reason if done over a long period.
Engine prices are rising. Avionics prices are dropping (with a few exceptions). That should be enough reason if done over a long period.
David-aviator
Well Known Member
If worse comes to pass and it becomes either or, you can fly the airplane with an engine. With the glass all you can do sit in the machine dream about flying it.
I am not one to say that you should install your avionics the day before first flight to ensure that you have "the latest" - buy what fits your requirements, whenever that is appropriate, and be happy that the equipment does what it needs to do. (If your requirement is to have the latest and greatest, no matter what - well, I can't help you...)
If I had to choose one or the other these days, I'd pick the engine because there is so much installation and finishing work that needs to be done. The fact is that panel equipment is getting so much easier to install and wire these days that you can do it pretty quickly. Fitting and finishing baffles and cowling will keep you happily (or maybe unhappily) occupied in the shop for a long time....
If I had to choose one or the other these days, I'd pick the engine because there is so much installation and finishing work that needs to be done. The fact is that panel equipment is getting so much easier to install and wire these days that you can do it pretty quickly. Fitting and finishing baffles and cowling will keep you happily (or maybe unhappily) occupied in the shop for a long time....
cfiidon
Well Known Member
Warranties
As a first time builder I bought my avionics too early. I did so to take advantage of very reasonable discounts at opportune times. One downside was that had I waited, I could have purchased a Skyview vice D180.
The biggest problem is that while your avionics sit on the shelf, the warranties expire. I contacted Garmin because my SL30 freq select didn't work right when cold. I noticed this after 30 hours of use. Five hundred bucks to service as the warranty expired, but gee we feel bad for you so we'll cut that in half.
If I can avoid Garmin in the future I will because of this issue. Are you listening Garmin?
Don
As a first time builder I bought my avionics too early. I did so to take advantage of very reasonable discounts at opportune times. One downside was that had I waited, I could have purchased a Skyview vice D180.
The biggest problem is that while your avionics sit on the shelf, the warranties expire. I contacted Garmin because my SL30 freq select didn't work right when cold. I noticed this after 30 hours of use. Five hundred bucks to service as the warranty expired, but gee we feel bad for you so we'll cut that in half.
If I can avoid Garmin in the future I will because of this issue. Are you listening Garmin?
Don
My idea: Get a fake engine and avionics
I had the same dilemma you did. Here's how I solved it . . .
I bought the shell of a scrap engine first. Not an engine core; this was a can't-be-overhaulled set of parts that were destined for the scrapyard, assembled by an engine shop into something that looked like an engine. It has no value other than it's the same size, shape, weight, and dimensions, as my final engine will be.
I can build baffles, fit the cowl, and run lines for oil, fuel, and the electrical system. I don't care if I scratch it, spill epoxy on it, strip the threads, or even drop it.
BTW, I'm doing something similar with avionics. I'm buying the manufacturers' empty boxes plus their installation/connector kits. (For those who don't provide these inexpensive "shells" I make something quick out of cardboard as a placeholder.) I'm installing everything like I would the final version, including wires, mounting points, etc.
My plan is to be able to drop in a new engine and avionics as the last step, and be flying before the warantee expires on all of that equipment.
I'm still building, though, so this could turn out to be a terrible idea. Only time will tell.
I had the same dilemma you did. Here's how I solved it . . .
I bought the shell of a scrap engine first. Not an engine core; this was a can't-be-overhaulled set of parts that were destined for the scrapyard, assembled by an engine shop into something that looked like an engine. It has no value other than it's the same size, shape, weight, and dimensions, as my final engine will be.
I can build baffles, fit the cowl, and run lines for oil, fuel, and the electrical system. I don't care if I scratch it, spill epoxy on it, strip the threads, or even drop it.
BTW, I'm doing something similar with avionics. I'm buying the manufacturers' empty boxes plus their installation/connector kits. (For those who don't provide these inexpensive "shells" I make something quick out of cardboard as a placeholder.) I'm installing everything like I would the final version, including wires, mounting points, etc.
My plan is to be able to drop in a new engine and avionics as the last step, and be flying before the warantee expires on all of that equipment.
I'm still building, though, so this could turn out to be a terrible idea. Only time will tell.
