Are Wide Band O2 Sensors Affected By 100LL

[kentlik]

Originally Posted by rv6ejguy

Ralph and I finally managed to get flying with the new Ballanger/ NTK wideband setup. Seemed to work well and I'll be putting a video together on this soon.

Looking forward to that Ross!

[rv8ch]

Originally Posted by rv6ejguy

Ralph and I finally managed to get flying with the new Ballanger/ NTK wideband setup. Seemed to work well and I'll be putting a video together on this soon.

Hi Ross, did you have a chance to pull this one together? Thinking about adding an AF sensor to my GRT EIS 4000 or EFIS Sport EX.

[Ralph Inkster]

Yes Ross did, posted on YouTube Dec 9, labeled "RV6A Project Part 2". His video shows the Ballenger AFR display (big red numbers), as well it being displayed thru the SDS controller head. Later in the video he is showing and explaining the graphical data output of the flight, how the programmed map is affecting engine operating parameters. We also were able to identify a loose connection to the Air Temp sensor that was slightly affecting the fuel map calculations and resulting in variable AFR outputs.

The temp sensor connector has since been fixed and AFR is much steadier now.

[rv8ch]

Originally Posted by Ralph Inkster

Yes Ross did, posted on YouTube Dec 9, labeled "RV6A Project Part 2". His video shows the Ballenger AFR display (big red numbers), as well it being displayed thru the SDS controller head. Later in the video he is showing and explaining the graphical data output of the flight, how the programmed map is affecting engine operating parameters. We also were able to identify a loose connection to the Air Temp sensor that was slightly affecting the fuel map calculations and resulting in variable AFR outputs.

The temp sensor connector has since been fixed and AFR is much steadier now.

Excellent - thanks. Interesting video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1fCzLW9qgY

Where did you install the sensor? What type of bung? Is the controller box mandatory?

The website seems to indicate that you should not use the sensor all the time, but I assume that it's a critical part of the SDS system.

Seems to me that this would be a really helpful thing to have to adjust mixture, but very few people are using one - is this just inertia, or is there a reason why most people don't use one? BTW, I will mainly be flying with unleaded fuel - perhaps the historical problem of lead damaging lambda sensors is why we don't use them in aviation.

[Ralph Inkster]

Originally Posted by rv8ch

Excellent - thanks. Interesting video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1fCzLW9qgY

Where did you install the sensor? What type of bung? Is the controller box mandatory?

Ballenger sells bungs, or just get one made up. Our exhaust systems are pretty short, try to mount it at least 12" from the tail pipe exit if you can.
The Ballenger module is the cpu for this package, it has wiring that can export the AFR output to another display unit like G3X, or SDS control head, or similar display.

The website seems to indicate that you should not use the sensor all the time, but I assume that it's a critical part of the SDS system.

Actually it is considered an accessory to the aviation SDS EM5 systems we use. In Open Loop operation, the AFR (O2 sensor) is handy to use in developing/programming your fuel map, but is not used in the SDS EM5 system to calculate fuel map injector pulses during it's operation, other engine parameters are used to calculate that.
Conversely, in the Closed Loop systems your car uses, its injection system does use O2 levels to dictate it's fuel mapping operations.

Seems to me that this would be a really helpful thing to have to adjust mixture, but very few people are using one - is this just inertia, or is there a reason why most people don't use one? BTW, I will mainly be flying with unleaded fuel - perhaps the historical problem of lead damaging lambda sensors is why we don't use them in aviation.

Just hasn't caught on in a big way in aviation for the reasons you just stated. We are hoping the NTK sensor will last longer in a 100LL invironment than other AFR display system sensors, we shall see...

[rv8ch]

Originally Posted by Ralph Inkster

Just hasn't caught on in a big way in aviation for the reasons you just stated. We are hoping the NTK sensor will last longer in a 100LL invironment than other AFR display system sensors, we shall see...

Thanks Ralph - do you guys only install one sensor? I guess that would be close enough...

Is the normal bung length ok, or do you recommend the long one?

https://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/in.../cPath/103_104

[Ralph Inkster]

The bung I have is about 3/4” long. The Bosch 4.9 & NTK sensors are about 1” to the top of the thread so sensor extends into the pipe about 1/4” . You might enquire with the sensor pkg mfgr what they think for longest longevity ( they won’t like the 100LL thing though). Also my bung ended up oriented in about the 2 o’clock position in the pipe.
Yes, one sensor used, installed about 16” from end of tail pipe, just up steam of the slip joint would have been better though...

[rv8ch]

Originally Posted by Ralph Inkster

The bung I have is about 3/4” long. The Bosch 4.9 & NTK sensors are about 1” to the top of the thread so sensor extends into the pipe about 1/4” . You might enquire with the sensor pkg mfgr what they think for longest longevity ( they won’t like the 100LL thing though). Also my bung ended up oriented in about the 2 o’clock position in the pipe.
Yes, one sensor used, installed about 16” from end of tail pipe, just up steam of the slip joint would have been better though...

Thanks Ralph. I've ordered the kit from Ballenger. I guess you want it up from the slip joint due to possible air contamination?

[Ralph Inkster]

Yes, would think less chance of air contamination.

I'm also thinking of putting smoke in, definitely would be installed in the other tail pipe as I think it would be instant death for any O2 sensor....