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VERY near miss and new Zaon XRX review.

Paul 5r4

Paul 5r4

Well Known Member
I wrote the following story about 5 years ago the night this very near miss occured. It was because of this I bought the ZAON XRX just this past week. My thoughts and review on the XRX follow the story.

What a beautiful evening it was last night. I had just cleaned my plugs because of a bad mag drop on the right when I decided to take it up for a quick 15 minute flight. There was a hot air balloon festival going on one mile southwest of the airport so I knew to be on the lookout. I made a pre-departure radio call including asking for any traffic to give a report then took off into the beautiful evening air. Leveling at 1000 feet, I glanced out to my left taking notice of the backed up traffic because of the festival. I spent not more than 5 seconds looking left when I looked to the front again. I actually said outloud "UH OH!" There about 300 feet dead ahead was another aircraft coming straight at me. He was probably looking at the balloons out to his left and never saw me. I immeadiatly banked hard left and at the same instant looked out to the right where I caught a glimpse of an aircraft pass not more than 20 feet from my flight path! I'm sure... If I hadn't banked hard left raising the right wing, it would have impacted the other aircraft. The entire incident lasted at best 2 seconds!
I continued south for a few minutes before returning to land. I caught sight once more of the other aircraft flying southwest of the airport. I tried to raise him on the radio with no luck. I did get a helecopter and warned him of someone that wasn't talking to anybody.
I had looked out the window to my left only 5 seconds. I did it sitting here at my computer and now it seems like an eternity. My speed was 90 kts and his speed was probably a little faster as he looked to be a larger aircraft. If he was just doing 100 kts, that means a combined closure rate of 220 MPH! That's 322 feet per second or in just 5 seconds 1613 feet! I felt no fear at the time or while flying. Actually, I'm more shook up now. Writing this must be therapy. The big sky theory was put to the test today and it almost wasn't big enough.
Paul Gray--N757GX--Cessna 152--Foley, Alabama

The Zaon XRX: Ok now straight up... I will not fly without this little thing ever again. This is the one with the big ugly antenna. I was concerned about the size and obstruction to view with it sitting on the dash of my 152, (RV 7A isn't finished yet). Guys, this thing is tiny! Maybe just a bit larger than a deck of cards. Obstruction to view.... what few square inches I lose with my eyeballs are more than made up for because of the eyes built into this thing. The manual says it absolutely takes a transponder squawk for this to work. In other words, there are no "false positives." Of course if the threat aircraft has no transponder, it's off or it's not being tagged from an ATC radar or another aircraft with TCAS, the XRX will not see it. Another draw back I've experienced is the direction capability is best taken as a guidline and not an absolute. I flew today and it was picking up an aircraft straight ahead 1.5 miles and 800 ft below me. I was really working my 52 year old eye balls hard and could not find this guy. A few seconds later he made a radio call of his position and then I spotted him off to my 2 oclock. Pretty close but not perfect. That's ok though. if the XRX had not let me know and he had not called I'd never noticed someone 800 ft low and in the haze. One other interesting thing the manual states is that the closer the threat aircraft is the more accurate the XRX becomes due to a stronger signal. If I had this little device 5 years ago, I'm pretty sure I'd have known about that guy mentioned above before ever leaving the ground. I was speaking with a friend of mine about my $1350 purchace and he said it best, "Hey, if it saves your life just once it was worth it!" Well said. The XRX will someday be sitting in my 7A cockpit!
 
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That's the way I feel about my Garmin 330/696 combo, having traffic is REALLY REALLY nice. Once you fly with it you wonder how you got along without it :confused:
 
Paul 5r4 said:
I wrote the following story about 5 years ago the night this very near miss occured. It was because of this I bought the ZAON XRX just this past week. My thoughts and review on the XRX follow the story.

What a beautiful evening it was last night. I had just cleaned my plugs because of a bad mag drop on the right when I decided to take it up for a quick 15 minute flight. There was a hot air balloon festival going on one mile southwest of the airport so I knew to be on the lookout. I made a pre-departure radio call including asking for any traffic to give a report then took off into the beautiful evening air. Leveling at 1000 feet, I glanced out to my left taking notice of the backed up traffic because of the festival. I spent not more than 5 seconds looking left when I looked to the front again. I actually said outloud "UH OH!" There about 300 feet dead ahead was another aircraft coming straight at me. He was probably looking at the balloons out to his left and never saw me. I immeadiatly banked hard left and at the same instant looked out to the right where I caught a glimpse of an aircraft pass not more than 20 feet from my flight path! I'm sure... If I hadn't banked hard left raising the right wing, it would have impacted the other aircraft. The entire incident lasted at best 2 seconds!
I continued south for a few minutes before returning to land. I caught sight once more of the other aircraft flying southwest of the airport. I tried to raise him on the radio with no luck. I did get a helecopter and warned him of someone that wasn't talking to anybody.
I had looked out the window to my left only 5 seconds. I did it sitting here at my computer and now it seems like an eternity. My speed was 90 kts and his speed was probably a little faster as he looked to be a larger aircraft. If he was just doing 100 kts, that means a combined closure rate of 220 MPH! That's 322 feet per second or in just 5 seconds 1613 feet! I felt no fear at the time or while flying. Actually, I'm more shook up now. Writing this must be therapy. The big sky theory was put to the test today and it almost wasn't big enough.
Paul Gray--N757GX--Cessna 152--Foley, Alabama

The Zaon XRX: Ok now straight up... I will not fly without this little thing ever again. This is the one with the big ugly antenna. I was concerned about the size and obstruction to view with it sitting on the dash of my 152, (RV 7A isn't finished yet). Guys, this thing is tiny! Maybe just a bit larger than a deck of cards. Obstruction to view.... what few square inches I lose with my eyeballs are more than made up for because of the eyes built into this thing. The manual says it absolutely takes a transponder squawk for this to work. In other words, there are no "false positives." Of course if the threat aircraft has no transponder, it's off or it's not being tagged from an ATC radar or another aircraft with TCAS, the XRX will not see it. Another draw back I've experienced is the direction capability is best taken as a guidline and not an absolute. I flew today and it was picking up an aircraft straight ahead 1.5 miles and 800 ft below me. I was really working my 52 year old eye balls hard and could not find this guy. A few seconds later he made a radio call of his position and then I spotted him off to my 2 oclock. Pretty close but not perfect. That's ok though. if the XRX had not let me know and he had not called I'd never noticed someone 800 ft low and in the haze. One other interesting thing the manual states is that the closer the threat aircraft is the more accurate the XRX becomes due to a stronger signal. If I had this little device 5 years ago, I'm pretty sure I'd have known about that guy mentioned above before ever leaving the ground. I was speaking with a friend of mine about my $1350 purchace and he said it best, "Hey, if it saves your life just once it was worth it!" Well said. The XRX will someday be sitting in my 7A cockpit!
Click to expand...

Your near miss plane probaby forgot to turn his transponder on too..
 
I have had similar experience though not nearly as close of miss as yours. I had just finished my phase 1 in the RV and had taken my wife for a ride. We have a 330 with Mode S which shows the traffic where TIS is available, so I had already experienced and enjoyed having some sort of "eyes" in the sky. We went to an airport for some touch & go where TIS is not available. We were in a climbing attitude that we spotted a Cessna coming right at us in a turning direction. So, he had no idea that we were there and had we not spotted and changed (abruptly) direction, we would have collided without any doubts. The next day my wife made the executive decision to purchase the XRX. Now we have both and often compare detection to narrow down location/aircrafts. When in radar, we often spot them before ATC advise us about the traffic.
 
Pilots please read

Paul and others,
In Paul's original comments he said,
"I made a pre-departure radio call including asking for any traffic to give a report then took off into the beautiful evening air.
Please read A.I.M. Sec. 4-1-9. Section g.1 Amen, Rosie

Here is an portion of it: g. Self-Announce Position and/or Intentions

1. General. Self-announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF. This procedure is used primarily at airports which do not have an FSS on the airport. The self-announce procedure should also be used if a pilot is unable to communicate with the FSS on the designated CTAF. Pilots stating, "Traffic in the area, please advise" is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition.

I hear quite a few G.A. pilots including corporate pilots using this and usually try to correct them. There is not many times that the FAA says "DON'T SAY THAT", but this is one of them. Most of the time the FAA will tell you what to say.

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/ATpubs/AIM/Chap4/aim0401.html


Thankfully, Paul, you saw the other aircraft and made the right moves and to avoid him. Good work.
 
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RVRC.... Not quite sure what you are getting at here. The flight departed an uncontrolled field without an FSS or anything. I did make my radio call stating that I was departing runway 18 and the any traffic please advise is not an uncommon occurance. If someone is close they should let you know they are there. My near miss happened only about 2 miles from the field. If I'm within 5 miles of an airport I moniter that freq. As to weather the traffic please advise is what is suppose to be said or not... I don't know but I will continue to ask it because about half the time I do get a reply. Like my near miss though, just because I ask and get no reply in no way assures the airspace is clear.... that's up to my eyes and my new Zaon!
 
Any Traffic in the Area Please Advise

Paul, I think that the reason that the FAA made this particular phrase forbidden is that it has serious problems, the primary one being that it doesn't give you any more information than if you just did not say it at all. People close to you are supposed to self-announce as soon as they hear you anyway.

There was a long thread on this a little while back, to save your time I can tell you it starts getting really good here. :)

Hans

PS I think I'm going to start responding this phrase with advice:

"Keep your airspeed up"
"Learn the power of compound interest"
"Practice Gratitude"
"Eating a low glycemic index mediterranean diet will let you keep your medical"
 
Paul 5r4 said:
RVRC.... Not quite sure what you are getting at here. As to weather the traffic please advise is what is suppose to be said or not... I don't know but I will continue to ask it because about half the time I do get a reply. Like my near miss though, just because I ask and get no reply in no way assures the airspace is clear.... that's up to my eyes and my new Zaon!
Click to expand...

Then just try that during your next BFR.
 
All I was trying to say is that the FAA probably has a reason for stating to NOT USE THAT PHRASE UNDER ANY CONDITION. Obviously it has caused problems or they wouldn't have said that. If you want to knowingly disregard what the FAA is saying, that is your business. I was just trying to let a FACT be noticed by fellow pilots. If the FAA tells ME not to do something in any circumstance, I'm not going to do it. I make a living flying and can't afford to deliberately disobey the FAA. I am certainly not trying to start anything. I try to learn from others around me and was passing on info that someone had shared with me. This was brought up for discussion amongst professional pilots at Flight Safety in Wichita, KS several years ago.

Cheers!!:)
 
Love my new XRX which I have connected to my Aera 510...

Like you said, the direction is a guide line but if it gets me looking in the correct general direction...that is good enough for me.

Like has already been said...if the transponders are off, it won't see em but I am placing my odds on the fact that the majority have transponders and they use em. If this thing increases my visibility of even a few percent of airplanes I never knew were there, it is worth it.

I still look out the window like a hawk!!! This thing just augments my search for targets!!!
 
Ok Guys... I had never heard that the "any traffic please advise" was not good practice. I did read the referenced link and the previous thread on the issue. I'll stand up and say I was wrong and will modify my procedures. As a side note.... I've been flying since 1978 and had never used this phrase. I had a BFR 6 years ago with a guy who flys jets for a living and he used that phrase when we were taking off. I liked it and so I picked it up from that point on. Thanks for all the info. Still I'm glad I've got my Zaon XRX, the guy I had the near miss with wasn't talking to anyone but just maybe he had a transponder that was on.
 
Paul 5r4 said:
Ok Guys... I had never heard that the "any traffic please advise" was not good practice. I did read the referenced link and the previous thread on the issue. I'll stand up and say I was wrong and will modify my procedures. As a side note.... I've been flying since 1978 and had never used this phrase. I had a BFR 6 years ago with a guy who flys jets for a living and he used that phrase when we were taking off. I liked it and so I picked it up from that point on. Thanks for all the info. Still I'm glad I've got my Zaon XRX, the guy I had the near miss with wasn't talking to anyone but just maybe he had a transponder that was on.
Click to expand...

Seems like it's only been a couple of years since they made mention of eliminating the phrase. All I care about.............is if I announce that I'm x-miles from the airport and landing, then I want others in the pattern to speak up.

And, I like my Zaon too!. I don't know if it's been mentioned, but besides having the transponder on, it has to be interrogated, as that's what the Zaon picks up. Sometimes when you're flying in the "boonies", it won't pick up someone else's transponder unless ATC's radar, or the radar from a commercial aircraft, bizjet, and possibly military aircraft interogate transponders from their aircraft.

Out here in the wild west, we still have un-populated boonies...

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
The traffic you never see/saw and traffic devices

The first thing you'll notice is all the traffic you never saw, and/or that passed very close by. My Zaon MRX cost $400 and worth every penny. Also "sees" traffic in the pattern, from the ground. Know this is an XRX thread, but like some type of GPS for nav/obstacles/terrain, it's really foolish to fly without some type of traffic alert system.
 
We Need Cheap TCAS

It is too bad that they don't take the next step and build an inexpensive unit that interrogates. That is what I want. Maybe MGL could make one.

Hans
 
like some type of GPS for nav/obstacles/terrain, it's really foolish to fly without some type of traffic alert system.
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I am probably one of the few that disagree with this.

I think in cockpit traffic (like in cockpit weather and GPS) is ok and even useful if you recognize it's strengths, weaknesses and limitations.

Above 10,000 feet where traffic is sparse and eyeballs have no focus point it is nice to know when there may be conflicting traffic and gives you a general idea of where to look.

When descending into an area it is nice to get a handle on traffic volume and any conflicts that might be looming in your future.

When departing an uncontrolled field it is nice to get an idea of what is in the vicinity.

I have found these units are pretty accurate in reporting relative altitude but I have never been convinced that azimuth (other than quadrant) nor relative distance are even close to accurate, and I have seen no data suggesting how azimuth and distance are determined. Nor any data as to documentable accuracy of distance.

I worry that too many pilots with these units think that the above mentioned parameters are perfect and if something is not on their fish finder then it isn't there.

Many aircraft still fly without transponders, many that have them do not turn them on, and many that have them and turn them on do not realize they are not working.

Often when IFR or when recieving flight following I hear or recieve 3 communications that worry me relative to this issue.

Often within 20 miles Northwest of my home base below 4000' I hear "NXXX radar contact lost." Meaning my transponder isn't painting nor is the guy's I might be about to run into.

"NXXX" unidentified traffic at your 1 o'clock altitude unknown"

This means either Mr unidentified ain't squawking altitude or may not be squawking at all, or he is not being painted by radar because he is too low, in any event you are not going to see him on your Zaon. I hear this at least once on every flight. That suggests that on every flight you make there will be conflicting aircraft that will not show up on your fancy gizmo.

The really scary thing I hear is NXXX traffic at your 123456 and 3000', followed by This is Baron NXXX we have him on the fishfinder traffic advisories not needed. This tells me that there are folks flying these things that do not even feel the need to look out the window.

I frequently fly the corridor just North of Mobile>>>Pensacola>>>>>Talahassee>>>Lakeland. On any given day the traffic here down low is probably equal to or even exceeds that in the corridior around New York and Los Angeles. Much of it fast Military.

I have flown it with a traffic device and find the number of aircraft and warnings on the screen terribly distracting. Seldom do I even see the aircraft it is painting and get so engrossed in looking for them I neglect the rest of the sky that may be full of planes not being picked up by the device. I frequently turn it off along this route.

These units are great if you do not rely solely on them to pick up traffic but dangerous if they cause you to quit looking out the window or distract you from other duties.

In my book the best way to avoid hitting another plane, a tower or the ground is good pre flight planning, current charts of paper or electronic origin, situational awareness and looking out the window.
 
Paul 5r4 said:
I immeadiatly banked hard left and at the same instant looked out to the right where I caught a glimpse of an aircraft pass not more than 20 feet from my flight path! I'm sure... If I hadn't banked hard left raising the right wing, it would have impacted the other aircraft.
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I'm sure I don't have to point out that you were lucky, you already know that. But one thing i'd like to point out for future reference:

When faced with an unexpected and last minute aircraft in your viewfinder, you're better off pulling or pushing to avoid it. The reason is, your plane is much wider than it is tall, when viewed from another plane at the same altitude. A slight change in altitude means a much faster separation of two mostly horizontal objects. If you bank instead, you create two overlapping long and narrow objects. Once banked, you now have to pitch much farther to clear the other object.
 
Snowflake....... I never thought of anything during that couple seconds about how to best get out of the way. Probably from driving a car I suppose that I made a turn rather than altitude change. I do believe you're 100% right on that a change in altitude would have yielded a faster seperation. Hind site being 20 20, I think I should have took a dive.... Might as well put gravity on my side too.
 
Paul 5r4 said:
Snowflake....... I never thought of anything during that couple seconds about how to best get out of the way. Probably from driving a car I suppose that I made a turn rather than altitude change. I do believe you're 100% right on that a change in altitude would have yielded a faster seperation. Hind site being 20 20, I think I should have took a dive.... Might as well put gravity on my side too.
Click to expand...

Maybe but you never know if the other pilot has seen you or what he will do. Faced with the same situation I would hope I would react in a way to avoid collision but ya just don't know til you been there, and you certainly been there. The bottom line is you are alive to tell about it and hopefully you will never face the same situation again where you can use the new found knowledge.
 
I never respond to "Any traffic in the area please advise."

I listen at least 10 miles out...if not further/on flight following. Anyone in the pattern should say something within several minutes.
 
ATITAPA is a dead horse, whip it elsewhere.....

As for the Zaon, I love my XRX, but I want an Experimental passive X-ponder receiver that has remote exterior antennas arrays, top and bottom.....

Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
 
Zaon developed one but they decided they could not market it for anywhere near what people would pay so they dropped it.

That version was way more complicated than the current solution....

B25Flyer said:
As for the Zaon, I love my XRX, but I want an Experimental passive X-ponder receiver that has remote exterior antennas arrays, top and bottom.....
Click to expand...
 
Brantel said:
Zaon developed one but they decided they could not market it for anywhere near what people would pay so they dropped it.

That version was way more complicated than the current solution....
Click to expand...

I guess I will wait for ADS-b but my fear is it is going to be a huge bust.....
 
Zaon says the XRX will not detect ADS-B signals so once ADS-B starts replacing conventional transponders (once they allow it to), the XRX will be a boat anchor.....

Even still, I just bought an XRX a few weeks ago and I am glad I did.

Who knows how long it will be before conventional xponders go away??? Bet it ain't no time soon.
 
N395V said:
Maybe but you never know if the other pilot has seen you or what he will do.
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I think you might be pretty safe assuming that you're in the situation you're in because neither of you saw the other. If you do *anything*, you probably increase your chances of survival.

I've resolved to pull, rather than push, in the same situation. Most GA aircraft don't have the vertical penetration of an RV at cruise, so i'd probably climb faster than they would anyway. That, and if a crash is going to happen anyway, I think i'd rather not see it coming. :p

Or think of it as putting the spar between you and the other aircraft, if it makes you feel better. :)
 
FLARM

nucleus said:
It is too bad that they don't take the next step and build an inexpensive unit that interrogates. That is what I want. Maybe MGL could make one.

Hans
Click to expand...
Already out there, but as usual, everyone needs one:

http://www.flarm.com/

This is very popular with the gliders around here, so many GA aircraft have them to avoid a metal on plastic encounter.
 
Scary stuff...had a similar experience one night in the traffic pattern at my home field, after the tower closed. I was safety for my buddy, but we were done for the night...he entered the pattern, announced properly at all points, etc....on downwind, as he began descending, I looked out and there, maybe 50' below us and just to the right, was another plane. I told him "my airplane", took the controls and the throttle and pulled us up and left quickly.

When we got on the ground, and went to have a "chat" with the other pilot about announcing his position, he said he had announced. Went to check his radio...his whole radio fell out of its mount, underneath the dash. Swell.

It was a classic low-wing (ours) above a high-wing (his), as well. In this case, poor maintenance could very easily have killed 4 people and nobody would ever have known what happened.

(BTW...no critique intended, but the OP said he banked hard left...proper procedure is for two head-on aircraft to bank *right*...had the other pilot seen and followed the correct procedure, things could have gotten much worse. VERY glad it worked out for you, of course...and yep...do whatever it takes to avoid the other guy!).
 
Brantel said:
Who knows how long it will be before conventional xponders go away??? Bet it ain't no time soon.
Click to expand...

ADS was designed before 9-11.. After that there is no scenario where primary radar goes away and if they have primary radar they just as well keep the transponder interogator... That means there is no scenario where xponders go away..

We will be stuck with buying, maintaining, and carrying both systems....

Further more the excuse they used to justify ADS-B was that the 1090 band was over crowded, my understanding is that was bull...

I interviewed a really smart guy at Mitre Corp for a story about ADS-B. Mitre is a think tank that advises the Govt on technical issues and the people in Mitre told the FAA that the ADS-B system as it is being envisioned is the wrong solution.... There were lots of better, more robust, and cheaper alternatives, but the lobbyist got what they wanted a new Govt system to build and maintain, and that was a new avionics market.....

Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
 
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