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G3x simulator?

sbalmos

Well Known Member
Hey Matt (or even anyone else who might know),

Is there, or are there any plans, of putting out a G3X simulator to download? I know, evaluating via flying behind an existing setup is best, and then visiting you guys at Oshkosh and elsewhere. I was just curious, as I love playing and getting familiar with the other Garmin toys via their simulators.

Right now, I've got the old G600 PFD/MFD simulator open. Any idea if I can somehow upgrade that with some new engine code or such, to look like the G3X.

Just curious. Thanks!
 
Hey Matt (or even anyone else who might know),

Is there, or are there any plans, of putting out a G3X simulator to download? I know, evaluating via flying behind an existing setup is best, and then visiting you guys at Oshkosh and elsewhere. I was just curious, as I love playing and getting familiar with the other Garmin toys via their simulators.

Right now, I've got the old G600 PFD/MFD simulator open. Any idea if I can somehow upgrade that with some new engine code or such, to look like the G3X.

Just curious. Thanks!

Hello Scott,

Good question, and one we get often.

Our engineering team builds and uses a Windows simulator routinely for various reasons, including simple code debugging.

The fact is, it is difficult to build a robust simulator from embedded system code that provides a good user experience on PC platforms and doesn't turn into a huge time sink to support.

We haven't ruled out doing this some day, but we are so busy developing important new features and products for our customers that it is very difficult to prioritize a PC simulator.

Thanks for your interest,
Steve
 
Steve,

One word of request. Touch-screen. (Hyphenated is one word right?).

On the simulator issue, after reading Paul's reasoning below I can say I see his point so I'm going to change my stance enough to say at present I would not use one but can see where others might.
 
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I'll respectfully submit a different opinion on this. I fly pretty much all of the EFIS's out there at times - and several of them very frequently. For people who are truly going to use their airplanes IFR, I am quite convinced that the greatest risk they face is remembering to push all of the right buttons in the right order to fly an approach or other procedure. On some older systems, just remembering which buttons to push to bring up which displays can be a little challenging. It's not a hit against any designs - it is just that when you need to do something that is complicated and has lots of options, you necessarily end up with complications in order to select those options.

Right now, with any of the major systems, you have one choice to learn them - go up and burn Avgas. And oh yeah, you better have a safety pilot on board (one who is not heads down trying to teach, or learn along with you). You can (and should) sit on the ground with the manual in your lap and external power on the airplane, going through the steps - but unless it is moving, with navigation data changing waypoints and the like, it is not going to teach you everything that you have to remember flying single pilot in the soup. Some of the systems do have demo modes that allow you to watch it fly, and I know that Dynon has regular classes in operating their systems (but I have not yet had the chance to take one, so I don't know if they have a truly interactive simulator).

I, for one, believe in the value of simulator training when it comes to operating complex systems. It works - and if you screw up, only electrons scream. I really think that it would be a great safety enhancement for any EFIS producer to build a desktop simulator for their system. It will take time and money, that's for sure. Some smart code-slingers could probably graft such a tool onto an existing product like Microsoft Flight Sim or one of the more serious programs for flight simulation. The truth is, very few experimental aviators actually USE the IFR capabilities of their aircraft - so maybe it isn't actually worth it. But for those who do, training and proficiency would be greatly enhanced.

Operators of complex aircraft long ago figured out that learning how to operate the systems was much safer and cheaper to do on the ground. Our cockpits are now capable of much more than those early "complex" aircraft. The market may be small, but it would be worth it to those who need to be sharp on how their equipment actually works. Head's down on a bright sunny day sliding down an ILS, trying to figure out what the "Suspend" button does, is not a good place to be - for anyone else in the sky.

Paul
 
Good Advice

Paul, as usual you are spot on with this.

I have quiet a few ramp hours with external power plugged in sitting behind my EFIS getting familiar with the buttonology. It's amazing how many ways there are to get to the same menu with some being much quicker. It's important to know and remember this before flying single pilot IFR.

Also, we all get pretty frequent software upgrades and the time to see what's changed is sitting in the ground in the clear rather than in the soup dodging the cumulogranite clouds.

I know simulators are excellent training tools, but utilize your plane on the ground for this until you feel comfortable in your ability to operate it correctly.
 
simulator

Paul, I agree 100%. I would pay for a download to my I-pad that would go one page at a time (not advance until I wanted it to)that covered every step and function of the G3x. It would have an index that one could select which function or setup you wanted to cover.The I-pad next to G3x, on the ground at your own pace, would be a terrific tool. Then put a s-d card in the G3x and practice. Would need different levels to cover the first time users to advanced IFR users. I'm waiting . Thanks Ron
 
ELEVATOR TRIM INDICATOR ON g3x

Would it be possible to invert the elevator trim indicator on the G3X? Currently the up position is in the lower portion and the down is in the upper portion. This doesn't seem intuitive.
 
I know that Dynon has regular classes in operating their systems (but I have not yet had the chance to take one, so I don't know if they have a truly interactive simulator).

When you attend a Dynon class, you sit in front of a real Dynon SkyView that is in simulation mode, and you can interact with it as you would a real SkyView in flight.
 
Would it be possible to invert the elevator trim indicator on the G3X? Currently the up position is in the lower portion and the down is in the upper portion. This doesn't seem intuitive.

This does come up once and awhile and for some reason ends in a strong debate; but they did do it right! Look at the little trim indicator next to the wheel in a cessna (the wheel you move "up" to trim the nose down and roll "down" to trim the nose up), or most any heavy iron airplane I've been around where you push the trim switches in the yoke "up" to trim the nose down and visa-vera. Normally elevator trim tabs are indicated by the position of the tab....been that way for a very long time on everything from Cessna's to 747's. Of course there are folks who display them the other way around in their own planes, but it's certainly the minority, not the majority. It's the same with the little autopilot wheels or rockers...push/roll "up" to move the nose down. It basically follows the convention of moving any switch or control from a horizontal console, angled console to a vertical panel...so everything moves and inidcates the same regardless of the angle to which it's mounted.

Also, I think most any of the EFIS systems can be run in a demo or simulaor mode, including the G3X.

Cheers,
Stein
 
Would it be possible to invert the elevator trim indicator on the G3X? Currently the up position is in the lower portion and the down is in the upper portion. This doesn't seem intuitive.

Im with you on this one. I want the trim to work just like the stick does - move or roll back, nose goes up, move or roll forward, nose goes down. Even the power windows on my truck work that way!

Pagpsa Springs - we have always wanted to go there. It looks like a cool place to see. Maybe this spring - if we ever have a spring!
 
SKYVIEW IN SIMULATOR MODE

Hello Dynon Support

I didn't know I could use my Skyview in simulator mode??
Well at least I didn't get to this part in the manual yet...

How can I do that or are your displays modified to work this way??

Thanks

Bruno
 
T

Also, I think most any of the EFIS systems can be run in a demo or simulaor mode, including the G3X.

Cheers,
Stein

Very true Stein - that helps you learn to bring up menus and displays. We would call those "Part Task Trainers" in my old business. In our family of course, we use demo modes on both the GRT and G3X systems we have.

But I don't know of anything that lets you actually fly a sequenced approach with a full-up IFR system (select the approach 50 miles out, say) and watch/make the end-to-end system - IFR Navigator, EFIS, and A/P - fly the entire procedure. The Part Task is valuable - but the end-to-end training is priceless. If folks think they're ready to fly an approach in the soup because they have learned the menus and setup, they might be surprised at a bad time.

I am well aware that this is not cheap for companies to produce - yet the challenge is out there.
 
I have the AOPA Aero commander 112 that does a pretty good job for IFR approaches in MS Sim 2004 with the AP and Chelton EFIS and 2 SL30's but don't think its available anymore.
 
The Garmin video on how to use the GNS430 is a great example of simulator training. Using the video and the Garmin simulator I learned more about my 430 than three different CFII ever showed me. The video runs a little over an hour and I spent about 4 hours doing the same procedures on the simulator and then went and flew several approaches in my Europa. It sure was easy!! Here's a link to the video: www8.garmin.com/learningcenter/in-the-air/gns-430-530

Jim Butcher
 
Simulator is essential

I have been flying behind a garmin 430 for 8 plus years. I flew a King kln89 before that. Both of these devices were a snap to use because of the simulators that were made available for training. I used the simulators to memorize how to use the device and fly approaches and overcome screwups by me. I have messed up in the real clouds and I would have had a panic attack if it weren't for the simulator and arm chair flying I had done.

I will be purchasing some glass soon. My final decision will be based on having a simulator available to me on my PC so I can use my new glass with complete confidence. I don't want to have to sit in my airplane in the cold or darn hot hangar to figure out how to use the device. It has to be available to me in the comfort of my bed on my laptop. I have chatted with a lot of other pilots and most feel the same.

If you are a manufacturer of a device that has a synthetic view and is capable of flying full approaches, please make it a priority to build a simulator for your device. It will entice me (and others) to consider your product as a serious IFR tool.
 
Sim not sim

I think many people may not have an appreciation for the distinct differences and also the immensely different requirements from a coding/hardware/etc standpoint between what Paul called a Part or partial task trainer and a simulator. They are very different.

In one, it is simply some code running to show you a menu when you press a button...hence a partial TASK trainer. These are good at training the proprioceptive responses...making your fingers "learn" where to expect to be needed next.

Simulators are very complex mechanisms with aerodynamic modeling, pressures, etc to actually SIMULATE the environment the box will be used in. While this my not be too complex for one box, once you ask it to to be accurate enough to give you a semi-reality experience (I push forward and not only does airspeed go up, but drag goes up and altitude/VSI/vector goes down, etc). For example, our best simulators for the MH-60R are more complex and just as expensive as the real aircraft!

This is an important distinction because rarely can a group of engineers plan/code for every possibility (well, I want to practice/simulate shooting this specific approach at +4580 DA, winds from 223 @ 13 gusting to 21, RAIM fails outside the final but inside the initial while I am turning, etc)
 
Simulator

John, if you want to sample glass with a full sim take a look at the MGL iEFIS, each SW release comes with a PC simulator release, the sim supports AHRS, engine instrumentation, etc, and also let's you create or modify your own screen designs, and I use the sim to playback recorded G430W Arinc recordings from all types of flights and approaches (helps with testing screen designs also).
Sim can be downloaded anytime.

Cecil
 
Thanks for the tip!

John, if you want to sample glass with a full sim take a look at the MGL iEFIS, each SW release comes with a PC simulator release, the sim supports AHRS, engine instrumentation, etc, and also let's you create or modify your own screen designs, and I use the sim to playback recorded G430W Arinc recordings from all types of flights and approaches (helps with testing screen designs also).
Sim can be downloaded anytime.

Cecil

Thanks for the tip Cecil! I'll check it out.
 
G3X - GTN home sim

For Stein and G3X Expert. What would be involved in building a wiring harness/box that you could have at home that would allow you to remove your G3X and GTN from your plane and take it home. Hook it up and use the actual hardware for SIM practice?
 
Update?

I wanted to refresh this topic in light of the G3X now being certified. It would seem overdue for a simulation app to be created to play and learn all the features on an iPad. Is their any other training aids that others are aware of besides the real deal?
 
I too am very interested in home simulation for the purpose of improving my proficiency in the air. I would love and would pay for a set of simulated avionics for the X-Plane simulator that could be plugged into various X-Plane aircraft.

I recently purchased a Mooney 201 to increase my flying utility while I work to complete the RV-10, and I am considering installing the G3X Touch under the STC in the Mooney so that when I step into the RV-10, I will be familiar with the avionics.

Having an X-Plane based sim of the G3X Touch would be a great help in my transition training as well as for maintaining proficiency.

There are several prominent vendors of simulation avionics for X-Plane,including one that has a sim version of Dynon’s Skyview (frankly don’t know how accurate that sim is, nor whether it was developed with cooperation from Dynon, but it is pretty). Any one of those vendors could probably work with an avionics manufacturer to develop a home simulation version to plug into X-Plane or other sims.

It’s past time that home simulators begin simulating newer systems available to experimental builders and the newly exposed market of certified aircraft using formerly experimental-only avionics under STCs.
 
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Just purchased a GNC355 (back ordered), Garmin has simulator app available for the 325/355/375 series navigators that is a superb training aid. When my unit finally arrives I should be quite comfortable using it.
 
I realize this is isn't what you guys are asking for but for those that are running FSX/P3D, Flight1 sells G500/600, GNS 430/530, and GTN 650/750 add-ons that are supposed to be very good. While this won't give anyone button for button, feature for feature emulation of the G3X, it will give emulation for a lot of the functionality, Garmin logic in particular.

Even though I have a legacy G3X in my own panel, I just plopped down a big chunk of change for an FAA certified BATD (G1000) to take advantage of the relatively recent changes that allows for 61.57 currency logging with an approved BATD without a CFII.
 
<SNIP>
PLEASE READ the Rules for posting on VAF Forums! Specifically the part about BUMPING Threads!!! This is the second occurrence of your bumping this thread…
S/ Don Hull, one of the moderators
 
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G3X Simulator

I have been asking Real Sim Gear to make a G3X Simulator, they already have G1000, G5, GTN650/750 so I think is just a matter of time for them to make one.

Maybe if more customers ask for G3X simulator, they will feel more motivated
 
RealSimGear

I have the RealSimGear GTN650, GFC500, and G5 (x2) & use them with X-Plane. I would really like to see them add the GDU460.
 
Me 2

I have been asking Real Sim Gear to make a G3X Simulator, they already have G1000, G5, GTN650/750 so I think is just a matter of time for them to make one.

Maybe if more customers ask for G3X simulator, they will feel more motivated

I am a customer and I want one.

There. done. Should be out next week:)
 
<SNIP>
PLEASE READ the Rules for posting on VAF Forums! Specifically the part about BUMPING Threads!!! This is the second occurrence of your bumping this thread…
S/ Don Hull, one of the moderators

Ok, I will re-read the rules…it looks like others are interested in this thread besides me. I’m generally a rule follower, no worries.
 
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Normally elevator trim tabs are indicated by the position of the tab....been that way for a very long time on everything from Cessna's to 747's. Of course there are folks who display them the other way around in their own planes, but it's certainly the minority, not the majority. It's the same with the little autopilot wheels or rockers...push/roll "up" to move the nose down. It basically follows the convention of moving any switch or control from a horizontal console, angled console to a vertical panel...so everything moves and inidcates the same regardless of the angle to which it's mounted.

Also, I think most any of the EFIS systems can be run in a demo or simulaor mode, including the G3X.

Cheers,
Stein

Not to do a debate on this, but in my Mooney 201, the elevator trim is actuated nose-down with an "up" push on the yoke trim switch, or a "roll forward over the top" on the trim wheel and nose-up with a "down" push on the switch or a "roll backward over the top". I think this is pretty standard among all aircraft makes, right? But the Mooney trim indicator goes "up" for nose up and "down" for nose down (it's a linear scale with a pointer). I think it's perfectly intuitive. The indicator on my old Warrior II also moved "up" (forward) for "nose up" and "down" (backward) for "nose down." I didn't realize that there were aircraft that used a different convention than Mooney and Piper seem to.
 
I just sent an email to Real Sim Gear.

[email protected]

There is such a strong need for some sort of G3X Touch simulator.
Glad this has shown me an option to email a potential supplier.
 
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Being impatient for a GARMIN G3X simulator to arrive on the scene, I started coding around New Years. Here's a month's part time effort. The G3X instrument is displayed on an ASUS touchscreen in my home based simulator that is running Air Manager 4.0 and X-Plane 12 Beta. The aircraft is a Cessna 172.

All components in the G3X small engine panel are functional and respond to throttle and mixture settings; fuel quantity responds to running time.

An old iPad next to the touch screen shows approach charts. The charts may be geo-referenced to the simulator airplane.

There are at least 20 select-able pages in a G3X display panel. Coding all of them may take some time.
If you know of anyone who would like to collaborate on this project please PM or email me.


G3X_simulator_B.JPG


And, up close:
G3X_simulator_A.JPG
 
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