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Service Bulletin 12-11-09 (Main Landing Gear Upgrade)

Maybe it is based on when you bought the finish kit or such. I ordered ALL my kits at the same time about two years ago almost exactly.

rgmwa said:
Well Don, Vans must be giving you special attention this time. I'm at about the same stage as you, but no shipping notice for 346 yet - and I've bought the Rotax! :(
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DonFromTX said:
Maybe it is based on when you bought the finish kit or such. I ordered ALL my kits at the same time about two years ago almost exactly.
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Sounds plausible. No doubt my SB will turn up in the next couple of weeks, just in time for the Xmas break. ;)
 
My Xmas present from Vans arrived today, shipped short a few bits.

Yesterday was my first engine run, and taxi testing will commence immediately.

Also today, the FAA advised the only DAR in these parts was overseas for the foreseeable future,so they will do the inspection themselves - but not for at least two months.

Might do the mod before Cert after all.

Meanwhile, hope they don't notice any bug smears on the windshield......

Bob Bogash
N737G
 
Please explain

Only 200 kits will be shipped by Van's for free? There are about 600 or so kit owners who need the SB kits, right??? Please explain why the 400 or so of us are counted out.
 
E. D. Eliot said:
Only 200 kits will be shipped by Van's for free? There are about 600 or so kit owners who need the SB kits, right??? Please explain why the 400 or so of us are counted out.
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This was just a guess on my part, and I apologize. Of the almost 700 emp kits sold, I "guessed" that only 30% or so had also received the fuse kit. With the -12, this percentage may well be much higher and I again apologize for my "guesstimate".
 
E. D. Eliot said:
Only 200 kits will be shipped by Van's for free? There are about 600 or so kit owners who need the SB kits, right??? Please explain why the 400 or so of us are counted out.
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Actually, probably somewhere between 300-400 will be shipped. I think Ernie's point was that when the dust settles, everyone who has already received a fuselage kit up until now, will receive the S.B. kit without doing anything.
Everyone else will then receive a fuselage kit with the S.B. incorporated into it already, when they finally purchase that kit.
 
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S.B. Kits

Scott
Thanks for clearing that up.



rvbuilder2002 said:
Actually, probably somewhere between 300-400 will be shipped. I think Ernie's point was that when the dust settles, everyone who has already received a fuselage kit up until now, will receive the S.B. kit without doing anything.
Everyone else will then receive a fuselage kit with the S.B. incorporated into it already, when they finally purchase that kit.
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Just completed the Gear Upgrade SB, and Fuel Tank Upgrade at the same time. Both kits and instructions were very detailed and complete.

I appreciate that Van's took the time to minimize the cosmetic affect of this upgrade on flying aircraft as mine has 300 hours. The upgrade when compete can only be seen from the underside of the aircraft, and in the log books. :D

Well done Van's!

The toughest part of the whole job was just getting back into building mode! In 20 degree weather!!! Tools have migrated here and there, skills were a tad rusty, fingers has no calluses, and I had to read instructions very carefully again! :eek:

A few steps had misprints in them, but nothing you can't figure out if you have half a brain. I didn't and had to call Van's. :eek:

The SB is certainly a good fix and not a band aid IMHO. Well worth the time and effort to avoid problems in the future.

Thanks Don, for sticking to your guns and bring this issue to the forefront. You da man.

Tony, Marty! Get your butts out in the hanger and get it done.;)
 
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Thanks Larry, it did seem as though I was fighting a battle at times. I too am very satisfied with the final fix. I am also very grateful that mine is in a temperature controlled facility and at the stage that the fix will not be a big deal.
 
DonFromTX said:
Thanks Larry, it did seem as though I was fighting a battle at times. I too am very satisfied with the final fix. I am also very grateful that mine is in a temperature controlled facility and at the stage that the fix will not be a big deal.
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Sure glad you stuck to your conviction on the subject Don, I was a doubter for sure. Nothing personal.

VERY close inspection of my bird by myself and 2 A&P's showed no cracks or any deformation at all, but I could not wait to get the fix done ASAP.

It was 22 degrees in my hangar today when I started. :mad:

Before I tuned the heater on. ;)

Now, if we can just get Tony to get this SB done.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
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I too was an early doubter, Don, as I'm sure you remember. Mainly because I was irritated at the reluctance of most of those experiencing the problem to confess to Van's. But you persevered when you smelled a real problem, and I commend you for that.

OK guys, take it easy on Marty. Do you know how cold it is in Iowa this time of year? ;) About the same as here. That's why my SB will be deferred until I can get in the heated hangar for my next CE in Feb.
 
humbug

Lotta deferments, and here I sit pushing back my inspection date over and over while waiting for the parts.

Oh well, I have high hopes for today! It should go pretty quickly - I took the time to get the legs off and the old rivets out. At least I'm still in build mode! :)
 
SB parts availability schedule

I for one wouldn't mind some kind of hint from Van's on what their who-gets-it-when algorithm is. I'm into the on-the-ground PAP tests, and would like to know if parts are coming in the near future--I have the last two weeks of the year available as genuine vacation, and it would be a lovely time to get the SB accomplished...but if I'm on the not-until-January Santa's naughty list with Van's, I'll rearrange my strategy. I've had my engine kit for a year, and the fuse/finish kit for about two years...Kit #332.
 
Special MLG Tool

Geico266 said:
...............

It was 22 degrees in my hangar today when I started. :mad:

Before I tuned the heater on. ;)

Now, if we can just get Tony to get this SB done.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
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Yikes, 22° and snow too, no doubt.

Actually, I am going to school on you SB early adopters. Now, if you will just tell me about those glitches you found;)

In the meantime tho' here is a Special Tool:
[url=http://tonytessitore.smugmug.com/RV-12Project/RV-12-Tools-Work-Fixtures/7992519_5V84v7#!i=2264416665&k=8t3vkmg&lb=1&s=A][/URL]
This will allow easily checking torque on the AN5 MLG nuts in the channel. The service bulletin suggests that the bolts can be torqued from below through the 3/8" holes, but it is probably best to torque the nuts and hold the bolt heads. This works way better than a crowfoot because of the small box end head.

We will need to check these bolts at least annually.

The tool is a 1/2" Lyc cylinder wrench with 4" cut out of the middle so it will clear the seat back brace and it has a 1/4" drive socket brazed in for the torque wrench. My 85 yr old machinist friend even powder coated it and apologized for not matching the original color exactly.

The tool evolved from several of us RV twelvers brainstorming in the rain up here.

Tony
 
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Mine will be here this week for sure, has already been shipped. If it is of any help, I would be happy to let you use mine during your vacation period, and you could just send yours on down to me when it comes.

engineerofsorts said:
I for one wouldn't mind some kind of hint from Van's on what their who-gets-it-when algorithm is. I'm into the on-the-ground PAP tests, and would like to know if parts are coming in the near future--I have the last two weeks of the year available as genuine vacation, and it would be a lovely time to get the SB accomplished...but if I'm on the not-until-January Santa's naughty list with Van's, I'll rearrange my strategy. I've had my engine kit for a year, and the fuse/finish kit for about two years...Kit #332.
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SB parts availability schedule

For Bob Reese,

Flew my ELSA 12 in early Oct, mailed completed PAP to Van's early Nov. No info on mod kit by last week, so I gave Van's a call.

Gave them my builder number. They told me my mod kit would not be shipped for some time as I had not yet ordered my engine or avionics.

Told them I was flying and had sent completed PAP. They pulled my folder and found that to be the case. Said they would update records and put me on the list for shipping. However, it would be a while because they were holding shipping for some missing parts.

Glad I called - not a big deal since I do not feel time pressure to do the mod, but I think I would have waited a really long time if I had not called.
 
Looks like the process has holes. I' better call Vans. I've been flying since March and sent in the PAP, but no indication of a kit.
 
My kit arrived today. Only the wing seal is back ordered. I've been ready to install the landing gear for about a month, so not a bad wait.

Installation starts tomorrow.
 
I'm on Santa Van's nice list I guess

engineerofsorts said:
I for one wouldn't mind some kind of hint from Van's on what their who-gets-it-when algorithm is. I'm into the on-the-ground PAP tests, and would like to know if parts are coming in the near future--I have the last two weeks of the year available as genuine vacation, and it would be a lovely time to get the SB accomplished...but if I'm on the not-until-January Santa's naughty list with Van's, I'll rearrange my strategy. I've had my engine kit for a year, and the fuse/finish kit for about two years...Kit #332.
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Totally un-announced, Fedex delivered my SB kit today, and, as with others, its missing the seal--but since I haven't installed the original, I guess I'm in good shape. Thanks go to Don for the rescue offer.
 
Got an email from Vans today telling me my SB kit will ship soon. Counting myself lucky that I haven't put the gear on yet. Just have to drill out all those rivets. Having just completed the wiring for SkyView, on a kit designed for D180, I'm used to de-constructing as much as constructing :)
 
UK shipping

It seems my kit made it to the UK. I don't get it delivered though until I pay $40 Value Added Tax. I though it was me that would provide the value-added!

Merry crumble...Keith
 
I hear mine is on the way. The timing interestingly pretty much coincides with my stage of the build!

:)
 
up grade kit

My parcel arrived last week havent opened it yet. Up to 235 hours now so will do it at the next 100 hourly service
 
Van's Caught Up?

I got a call from Van's today that my fuselage kit will ready to pick up next week. I ordered it about seven week ago. Does this mean that they are all caught up on the upgrade kits?
 
Apparently mine is on the way too? I got an email that a UPS package was on the way from Vans, and I haven't ordered anything else. So it must be the SB kit? I'm kit #610. I will update when the package arrives early next week.
 
Cherry Max rivets

Geico266 said:
Some of the rivets are Cherry Max. I found out today that a regular puller MAY work, but the Avery puller will not. The stems (mandrels) are too short. Thanks to Bobby K & John Bender I tried another puller I had and it worked fine.
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I'm having a hard time pulling the Cherry Max rivets on the center channel. First, the mandrels are too short for my "tight places puller". Second, I tried my regular hand puller and the mandrel gets stuck after the first pull. The puller then has to be dis-assembled to release the mandrel. The Avery pneumatic puller works fine, but cannot operate in tight places.

I tried using the wedges with the pneumatic puller, thus pulling at a slight angle. The result is a mandrel braking before the rivet is fully set. The rivet must be pulled straight back, and then results are mixed; I'm not sure the manufactured head is fully compressed.

I've gone through 15 rivets so far with less than ideal results.

I wonder if the rivets are the correct size (-5). There does not seem to be enough length protruding.

I also wonder if LP4-5or 6 would be acceptable in this application.

Regards,

Rafael
 
woodsideraff said:
I'm having a hard time pulling the Cherry Max rivets on the center channel. First, the mandrels are too short for my "tight places puller". Second, I tried my regular hand puller and the mandrel gets stuck after the first pull. The puller then has to be dis-assembled to release the mandrel. The Avery pneumatic puller works fine, but cannot operate in tight places.

I tried using the wedges with the pneumatic puller, thus pulling at a slight angle. The result is a mandrel braking before the rivet is fully set. The rivet must be pulled straight back, and then results are mixed; I'm not sure the manufactured head is fully compressed.

I've gone through 15 rivets so far with less than ideal results.

I wonder if the rivets are the correct size (-5). There does not seem to be enough length protruding.

I also wonder if LP4-5or 6 would be acceptable in this application.

Regards,

Rafael
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Cherry rivets are spec'ed to a very specific grim length range. The Cherry 4-5 rivets supplied are the correct size.

You are correct that the stem has to be pulled straight for proper installation of the rivet; you can not use the wedge. That is why the instructions didn't specify to use one (I guess it should have been stated not too).

If the tool you have wont pull the rivets, you will need to search out the use of a different tool.

Do Not Use LP rivets in these locations.
The Cherry rivets were chosen for specific locations as needed for structural reasons. The kit would have cost half as much if LP's were used everywhere, but they weren't appropriate, so the Cherry rivets were supplied.

15 rivets with less than ideal results? I hope you don't mean you have removed and replaced rivets 15 times.

BTW, the only way to remove the Cherry rivets without causing damage to the hole is to first grind off about 1/2 the thickness of the manufactured head. This will release the locking collar that locks the stem in place. Then you can drive out the center mandrel and drill to remove the rivet body, just like the LP rivets.
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
BTW, the only way to remove the Cherry rivets without causing damage to the hole is to first grind off about 1/2 the thickness of the manufactured head. This will release the locking collar that locks the stem in place. Then you can drive out the center mandrel and drill to remove the rivet body, just like the LP rivets.
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Thanks for the tip, Scott. I'm just about to install these new (to me) rivets. Hope I don't have to remove any.
 
I have removed the rivets very easily because the rivets are not set before the mandrel breaks. The mandrel falls out with a light tap of a drift pin. The rivet almost falls out, so the hole is definitely not damaged.

I notice that a small washer (collar?) falls of the manufactured head when the mandrel breaks off.

I'll do some research on setting cherry rivets and proper tools before proceeding.

It would help if someone posted a picture of what a properly set rivet looks like.

Thanks and regards,

Rafael
 
woodsideraff said:
I have removed the rivets very easily because the rivets are not set before the mandrel breaks. The mandrel falls out with a light tap of a drift pin. The rivet almost falls out, so the hole is definitely not damaged.

I notice that a small washer (collar?) falls of the manufactured head when the mandrel breaks off.

I'll do some research on setting cherry rivets and proper tools before proceeding.

It would help if someone posted a picture of what a properly set rivet looks like.

Thanks and regards,

Rafael
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The washer is there only for installing the rivet, and is intended to fall off after the stem brakes off.
The supplied Cherry rivets do not require a special puller per-say, but not all pullers work with them (the stems are a bit shorter than LP rivets). This is why a specific tool was not specified in the List of required materials and specialty tools, published in the S.B.

One option would be to skip installing the difficult to access ones and move on to riveting the skin doubler on the outside. The Cherry rivets used there will pull the exact same way, so it will allow experimenting with some different tools (borrow a couple of different pullers from friends and see what will work)
 
Well neither my PRP26A hand riveter, my old pop riveter, nor the pneumatic puller would grip the Cherrymax rivets. So rather than experiment with other riveters I ordered a Cherymax G-27 hand puller from Aircraft Spruce - $89 for the riveter and $46 for cheapest postage. Local price for a G-27 - a mere $207 and postage extra!. Just the cost of building on the far side of the planet. :mad:
 
I have not yet tried any of my many rivet pullers, but the robust market for very pricey Cherrymax pullers makes me wonder if I will have to do the same.
 
Just for note - -

my Avery Tool Kit supplied compact rivet puller did not work, HOWEVER, my Sears hand puller worked perfectly. Maybe just lucky, but it did not have a problem with any of them. I used the Taylor ( Avery tool kit ) supplied on all the exterior rivets, ALL, no problem.

John Bender
 
Hey Dave - -

thought I could be helpful, but Sears does not list this model now. It is a 74729 CLEARLY on the side with Craftsman. Maybe a special or something. Not in their system now. I could send a picture, but not sure it would help if they can't identify it now.

John Bender
 
Dgamble said:
We got as far as getting the side doublers riveted in before running up against a tool delay. There might be a couple of useful tips and hints here:

http://www.schmetterlingaviation.com/2012/12/sb-12-11-09-part-1.html
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Dave,
I took a look at your blog.

The very first photograph/description gave me pause.... did you really drill 3/4" holes in the belly?

BTW, the shop vac actually does work well if you do specifically what is suggested in the instructions.
 
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"Tapping" the spar bushings; Cherrymax again.

Dgamble said:
We got as far as getting the side doublers riveted in before running up against a tool delay. There might be a couple of useful tips and hints here:

http://www.schmetterlingaviation.com/2012/12/sb-12-11-09-part-1.html
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Thanks for the tip on driving the bushings out of the way. Makes a lot of sense!

I have some trepidation on the setting of the Cherrymax rivets from the shop end. Aren't they designed to be pulled? Perhaps pushing works just as well.

I thought about using solid rivets and bucking them, but so far I have not deviated from Van's instructions and even though the DAR has signed off and the airplane is flying, I'm not about to start experimenting now. I will be ordering the G-27 puller in the morning. I'll let y'all know how it works out.

Cheers,

Rafael
 
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