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  #1  
Old 01-20-2014, 08:14 PM
Christopher Murphy Christopher Murphy is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: colorado
Posts: 892
Default be careful around the MOA F-16s

I was going through some old video and I found this clip from a few years ago. I was flying to an air race with the twin Comanche support plane on the right wing. We were near a MOA ( under it ) when this occurred. Watch closely in the first 2 seconds you will see a black dot streak across the screen. That is 2 F-16s. I suppose they flew an intercept on us because one flew high cover and the other pulled up behind the twin. After a few mins he broke off. You can't see him, but there is another unrelated RV far off the right wing of the Comanche. WE WERE NOT VIOLATING ANY AIRSPACE
I posted this to show how hard it can be to see an airplane coming head on.
I actually saw 4 F-16s but I didn't get the other two on the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXLauqvf2nY

The Comanche pilot didn't believe me when I told him we were intercepted until he saw the video.
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  #2  
Old 01-20-2014, 08:18 PM
Sonex 541 Sonex 541 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: New Bedford Ma
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Default

Wow , , wow that's all I gotta say is wow ,
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  #3  
Old 01-20-2014, 08:33 PM
Christopher Murphy Christopher Murphy is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: colorado
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Default thats what I said

Yes 95 percent would not have even seen them. I thought it was a single ship at first but the dots you see are two airplanes and there were two more airplanes that I didn't catch on video. I had to use stop motion on the big screen to see it was 2 airplanes and not one.

morale of the story... if you are near a MOA keep your eyes open.
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Last edited by Christopher Murphy : 01-20-2014 at 08:34 PM. Reason: correction
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  #4  
Old 01-20-2014, 08:36 PM
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TomVal TomVal is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SC & CA
Posts: 907
Default Here's another...

Below is another example of a near mid-air in a MOA. The T-38 is on a practice bomb run. IAS is approximately 350 kts. At the moment they are attempting to visually identify the drop zone. Their total attention is focused between locating the bomb range outside and the HUD target steering information inside. They are not in a “see and avoid” mode. The wx is CAVOK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY

Regards,
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  #5  
Old 01-20-2014, 08:52 PM
Christopher Murphy Christopher Murphy is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: colorado
Posts: 892
Default scary

That's scary. In our case I saw them and I am sure they saw us. I adjusted course to the left ( for what its worth ) and as they went by they were wing up towards us. It wouldn't surprise me if they weren't RTB and passed us first and then turned around to take a look.
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  #6  
Old 01-20-2014, 09:12 PM
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DougJ DougJ is offline
 
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Location: Prather, CA
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Default

F-16's can be hard to see! I've been intercepted a few times here and in the sandbox, looks like fun...

Years ago I was flying a Chinook along Highway 58 between Barstow and Mojave through R-2515, about 800-1000' AGL, daytime. Edwards tells us we have traffic at 12 o'clock, opposite direction 2 F-16's that have us in "sight". He did not specify an altitude that I remember. I didn't see 'em until they were about to pass UNDER us, smart-alecks.
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  #7  
Old 01-21-2014, 06:47 AM
sailvi767 sailvi767 is offline
 
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Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 1,267
Default

A major flying magazine a while back had a article by one of their staff writers essentially advising people to ignore MOA's and fly through them. Her reasoning showed she had no understanding about the training that could be going on in a MOA. It's easy to check with ATC to find out if a MOA is hot. I avoid them when they are in use.
George
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  #8  
Old 01-21-2014, 08:34 AM
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pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
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Default

Unfortunately, I live smack dab in the middle of the Bulldog MOA and 99% of my customers do as well. Yep, my head stays on a swivel. My ag work is below their flights but it worries me when we climb to altitude on a cross country in the -10, so the transponder's always squawking.

Best,
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  #9  
Old 01-21-2014, 08:50 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
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Location: Central IL
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Default

I flew through the Eglin MOA many times and even below the floor, there were many times crossed paths with trainers descending back to Whiting Field. I watched many F-15-16 TO from Eglin then spiral up and disappear in astonishingly little time, like I was suspended there, not going 145kt in a 182. I was told that they like to play over the gulf as they can go supersonic there.

Flight following helped, but I think they were alerted to me more than vice-versa. All turbo-prop, no jet traffic, thankfully.
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  #10  
Old 01-21-2014, 09:55 AM
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rleffler rleffler is offline
 
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Location: Delaware, OH (KDLZ)
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Default

There is another aspect of the MOA that I didn't see mentioned in the thread.

Remember when you were getting you initial rating or perhaps when you started working on your instrument rating. How long did it take you to get your head in front of the aircraft? Now imagine a newly minted UPT grad starting the F-16 B course. Or a fresh LT just starting UPT in a T-6 or T-38.

You want to give that pilot that is new to his airframe as much space as possible. Don't assume that because he is a military pilot that he has already mastered his airframe. That's why they're in the MOA practicing.

Unfortunately, there is no way to judge the skill level of the pilot by looking at the aircraft. While they are learning, they can make the same stupid mistake we made, except they are going a whole lot faster.

bob
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