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Dual AF3400 in RV-8 panel?

AntiGravity

AntiGravity

Well Known Member
Anyone out there got dual AF-3400 (EFIS and EMS) in an RV-8 panel. Will they even fit? I'd really prefer to have separate EFIS and EMS units. Can't give a good reason why, I just do! If you don't have dual AFS, but have dual something else, then what are they? (But I do prefer the look of the AFS units...)

Mission is generally VFR with 'get me down if I really need it' capability, worry about legality later (while I'm still alive to do so). So I'm also thinking:-

Garmin 396/496 Gizmo'd
Garmin GTX-327
Garmin SL40 comm
AoA Pro (separate from AF units)
Compass (duh!)
PM9000EX (if I can justify the dollars! This one is for her mostly)
Hobbs

Backup guages if they'll fit somewhere (all 2.25")...
UMA airspeed
Winter altimeter ($$ ouch!)
UMA vsi
pictorial pilot / turn&slip

I also have absolutely ZERO idea of what switches, CBs/fuses, annunciators, etc I'm gonna need real estate for, let alone the electrical and data wiring side of things. OhMeGod me brain 'urts...
 
Since you seem interested in backups, why not save some pennies and panel space at the same time?

Get a Dynon D180 and a Dynon D100. Fully redundant EFIS systems, so no reason for the backup altimeter, airspeed, VSI, compass, or pictoral pilot. They'll run even if the electricity fails. You can run full screen EFIS on one and full screen EMS on the other in normal operation. The EMS will do your hobbs for you (and tach time as well).

D180+D100 with backup batteries, all engine probes and AoA is only $6660, so you'll be able to afford that audio panel with the $$ you save.
 
Its all about LOOKS darling!

Honestly, I prefer the 'look' of the AFS screens. Now, having said that, my 'look' is from around 18 months ago when I first looked around at the EFIS systems, so I shall need to update myself with the current offerings.

The idea with the backup guages is that they are mechanical (well, ok, the PP isn't) and completely independent of the electrical stuff. I know the EFIS/EMS systems these days have backup batteries and stuff, but how much use is that if the electronics themselves have gone on the fritz? I like the idea of the redundant/second EFIS in the D100, but I'd probably still want the guages as long as panel space wasn't the issue.

Just had a look at the Dynon website; time to take the blinkers off and do an honest appraisal I think... ****, as if I haven't got enough to do already... :eek:

Cheers,
 
Question for Dynon Support

Can you control both a D-180 and D-100 with a single HS34 expansion module?
 
Jeff,
I sent you an email of my next 8 panel, I would stick with the advanced screens and get rid of all them back-ups you will have over a 1/2 hour of battery back-up in the advanced system.
 
Yes, the HS34 can send data to and control more than one screen.

The idea between a D100 and a D180 is that they are COMPLETELY independent, and don't share ANY sensors. Sure, the electronics in one could go out, but the other one will keep going. It's a very, very bad day if they both happen to fail at the same time.

If your preference for the AFS systems totally trumps the very big price difference, you can do the same thing with their systems- buy one combo unit and one EFIS only unit. The price difference is over $3000 more than the Dynon units and you end up with smaller screens.

I really don't see the need for mechanical backups in an airplane with two battery backed up EFIS systems, especially given your mission of VFR with only "get down" IFR.
 
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Hmmm

I *do* prefer the AFS screens, but I having checked the Dynon website last night I believe I need to do more research. Especially when we're looking at a price difference of $3k. If I catch the exchange rate at the wrong time that would make a big big difference. Point noted about dual battery backed EFIS - I'll consider it. Thanks.

Anyone out there actually running dual systems in an -8 as suggested here? Any concerns? How's the panel space? Photos?
 
Dual Dynons

Hi Jeff:

No problem fitting dual Dynons in an RV-8. You even have room for an AvMap!

rv8panelcm5.jpg


Mike Draper
RV-8, Finish
Bridgewater, MA
 
What would be the advantage of the 180/100 over a D100 and D120 combo for a good bit less money?

-John

dynonsupport said:
Since you seem interested in backups, why not save some pennies and panel space at the same time?

Get a Dynon D180 and a Dynon D100. Fully redundant EFIS systems, so no reason for the backup altimeter, airspeed, VSI, compass, or pictoral pilot. They'll run even if the electricity fails. You can run full screen EFIS on one and full screen EMS on the other in normal operation. The EMS will do your hobbs for you (and tach time as well).

D180+D100 with backup batteries, all engine probes and AoA is only $6660, so you'll be able to afford that audio panel with the $$ you save.
Click to expand...
 
AntiGravity said:
Anyone out there got dual AF-3400 (EFIS and EMS) in an RV-8 panel. Will they even fit? I'd really prefer to have separate EFIS and EMS units. Can't give a good reason why, I just do! If you don't have dual AFS, but have dual something else, then what are they? (But I do prefer the look of the AFS units...)

Mission is generally VFR with 'get me down if I really need it' capability, worry about legality later (while I'm still alive to do so). So I'm also thinking:-

Garmin 396/496 Gizmo'd
Garmin GTX-327
Garmin SL40 comm
AoA Pro (separate from AF units)
Compass (duh!)
PM9000EX (if I can justify the dollars! This one is for her mostly)
Hobbs

Backup guages if they'll fit somewhere (all 2.25")...
UMA airspeed
Winter altimeter ($$ ouch!)
UMA vsi
pictorial pilot / turn&slip

I also have absolutely ZERO idea of what switches, CBs/fuses, annunciators, etc I'm gonna need real estate for, let alone the electrical and data wiring side of things. OhMeGod me brain 'urts...
Click to expand...

The compass is not a "Duh"...i fly my RV7 IFR and don't have a compass.

As your a VFR only jock then all that backup is really unecessary..A much better instrument (that also is a great backup) is a Trutrak autopilot.

So slap in a Dynon D180, and trutak Pictorial pilot (if you want single axis control or an ADI if you want two axis) and your set.

The trutrak will allow you to dial in any heading ATC gives you and you can happily fly home...Your handheld GPS will be more than enough backup infor for where you are and altitude.

My philosophy here is buy a backup that does something else thats useful ...i.e takes you to where you want to go while you take a nap...:)

The Ppilot also has a turn coordinator head thats actually works..i have doen a lot of partial panel work in IFR using just that instrument.

So in summary my ideal VFR panel (for an rv8) would be a Dynon D180, trutrack PP, radio and GTX 327 and Garmin 496...And thats it....Never needed an AOA on the 7 at least.

Frank
 
Thanks all

Frank; I *think* the compass might be a 'legal' thing here in NZ. Not sure and need to check that out. I know another builder with FI/FADEC had to put gascolators in; NZ has some requirements that are probably just historical and show a lack of understanding of modern systems.

Mike; that is a niice panel :) And you're right; those Dynons fit nicely. I'm not sure the AFS units will fit. On ePanel they just about squeeze in there, but I would want to make sure there's some 'meat' around them!

My AoA wing kit is already installed and having seen one in action for me it is a must have. I know a lot of people say the RVs have good natural stall warning, but if I get low and slow one day in busy airspace (in NZ? Really?!!) then an additional audible and vsual prompt is a good safety factor. This is the same reason I skydive with two audible altimeters; "just in case". Of course AoA isn't cheap, but since I already have the kit installed and I want that display right up there on the glareshield somewhere...

I toyed with the autopilot idea but then decided that I'd rather fly the plane. NZ isn't really big enough to get bored in anyway! Besides, I closed the wings up now and the thought of fitting the roll servo thorugh that little access panel... maybe not! :)
 
It will work

Jeff,

I just checked in TCAD and 2 3400s will certainly fit. Please call me if you have any questions or I may be of any help regardless of who you buy the AFS stuff from. BTW, stick to your guns and buy what you want.
 
Hey Paul

...thanks for checking that. I have it on my 'To Do' list to call (well, email) you guys about some of this stuff anyway. I might do so anyway shortly: I'm making progress on the fuselage and beginning to think about what stuff I can pre-purchase and install back there before I do the Tom Clark thing (not looking forward to that!) and put the roof on...
 
boomer said:
What would be the advantage of the 180/100 over a D100 and D120 combo for a good bit less money?
Click to expand...

The D180/D100 combo has two independent, redundant EFIS units. If the D180 fails you still have the D100 EFIS, and if the D100 fails you still have the D180 EFIS and EMS.

With the D100/D120 combo, everything is the same until one unit fails. If you lose the D100, you have no EFIS.

The decision between a D180/D100 and D100/D120 is all about your mission, and what kind of failures you can tolerate and still get down safely.
 
In the US, FAR 91.205 lists the compass requirement as:

"Magnetic Direction Indicator"

The Dynon EFIS (and any EFIS that uses a magnetometer) meets this requirement. Something that uses GPS or non-magnetic ways of resolving heading does not.
 
Autopilot

AntiGravity said:
I toyed with the autopilot idea but then decided that I'd rather fly the plane. NZ isn't really big enough to get bored in anyway! Besides, I closed the wings up now and the thought of fitting the roll servo thorugh that little access panel... maybe not! :)
Click to expand...

The A/P servo is pretty easy to install even in closed up wings from the inspection plate underneath.

If there is a hard part its running the wires.

The A/P is very useful on a long Xcountry...set the direction and let it rip....In IFR its an absolute Godsend!

I still feel this is a much more useful unti than the backups you plan...I ohave steam guage backups but thats only cus I fly IFR.

Frank
 
Autopilot

Hi Jeff,

Enjoyed reading your discussion about your panel design. I'm also more of an AFS kind of guy, but man, does Mike's panel look good!!

Just a thought for you: I've flown my RV6 now for approximately two years and the first thing I'd change is to fit an autopilot. I suggest you talk to a few RV pilots before dismissing (as I did) an autopilot as an unnecessary luxury.

Enjoy the reading.
 
Hey Leonard

Why would you install an autopilot? What do you feel you are missing out on? You're right though, I do see it as a luxury. That and the fact that I want to fly my plane, and not necessarily right side up all the time! (hence my inverted oil plans)

Everyone else; how easy is it to retrofit to a completed airplane? What kind of cost is it? (yeah, I know I could go price it up, but I'm lazy and all I really need is a ballpark!).
 
Jeff-

I'm not positive, but I think the Tru-Trak autopilot servos install in the fuse for an -8, not the wing. Seem to remeber that from an e-mail I had from them.

Anyway, I look at it as a way to shed some tasks while flying...even if it's just holding your altitude for you while you write down the ATIS, eat a snack, etc. Flying actual IFR, its a huge advantage to monitor the AP and be ready for "whatever", versus spending 99.9% of your brain power on keeping the aircraft on course/glideslope. Again, it's all about task saturation IMO. I don't see it being used during normal "fun" flying to and from a practice area, but on cross-country trips.

I also envision the instrument head as a kind of back up ADI.

My $.02

Joe
 
bare bones!!

I have an 8a---would hate to fly cross country anytime without my autopilot!! I built it without one and realized it is not a luxury. One day I sneezed and rolled upside down!! [lust kidding].
Building A 10 --in same situation as you. Right now looks like Dynon has best bang for the buck. I am still in the learning curve. I need to read more post, decide on my real mission/needs. I will go to Sun/fun and buy there.
good luck!!
ED
flyin da 8a
workin on da 10/ and workin/and workin
 
jferraro16 said:
Jeff-

I'm not positive, but I think the Tru-Trak autopilot servos install in the fuse for an -8, not the wing. Seem to remeber that from an e-mail I had from them.
Joe
Click to expand...


This is correct. I am building an 8A with TT Digiflight AP and the roll servo is mounted in the center of the fuse just aft of where the aileron push tubes connect to the control column.
 
I owned a RV-4 for 15 years with out a AP and didnt think it was necessary. Well my new RV-8 has llVSG and it is amazing! After flying with it, you couldn't live with out it.
 
Compass

dynonsupport said:
In the US, FAR 91.205 lists the compass requirement as:

"Magnetic Direction Indicator"

The Dynon EFIS (and any EFIS that uses a magnetometer) meets this requirement. Something that uses GPS or non-magnetic ways of resolving heading does not.
Click to expand...

I spoke with 2 DARS yesterday. One said that under no circumstances would he sign off a plane without a whiskey/flat card/mechanical compass. The other was on the fence. It's a good idea to check with the DAR you want to use and ask what he thinks. His reasoning was that if the EFIS goes dark you still have a mag ref. I agree with that thought as I have a S.I.R.S.
 
DARs

MNRVFlyer said:
I spoke with 2 DARS yesterday. One said that under no circumstances would he sign off a plane without a whiskey/flat card/mechanical compass. The other was on the fence. It's a good idea to check with the DAR you want to use and ask what he thinks. His reasoning was that if the EFIS goes dark you still have a mag ref. I agree with that thought as I have a S.I.R.S.
Click to expand...

Sometimes need to read the FARS as well...It clearly says, "magnetic indicator"...which the EFIS covers.

But your right if your DAR won't sign your screwed so check with 'em up front...I bet if you pointed out what the FAR said they might come round...Are they allowed to make up their own rules incidently?

My original point is that with an EFIS, Handheld GPS and a TT A/P you have three independant ways to find out where your going...And besides in VFR who cares anyway?

Frank...IFR with no compass.so far..:)
 
System interaction...

apatti said:
This is correct. I am building an 8A with TT Digiflight AP and the roll servo is mounted in the center of the fuse just aft of where the aileron push tubes connect to the control column.
Click to expand...

So how does the autopilot roll servo interact/co-exist with the trim servo, which I believe also lives down in that area?

Dang, you guys have now got me thinking, and whenever that happens it costs me more money! :rolleyes: I shall look into autopilots, but I'm not promising anything!!
 
Thats why you asked right?..:)

Well first off the idea is to remove those unecessary steam guage backups which will save you some money and weight.

If you think you might upgrade to an IFR panel in the future there maybe some sense in keeping them but otherwise those can go.

Secondly the TT with the turn coordinator head will give you a much more reliable backup that is more helpful..I.e it will give you ground tack, and a rudimentory artifical horizon in the case of the Pictorial pilot or a true AH in the case of the ADI pilots.

Hate to say this but if you want to got real cheap in a VFR airplane I would argue you could lose the EFIS altogether and just got with a good two axis autopilot...(you will have to add your compass back in for this setup because the TT is going from the GPS ground tack which does not replace the magnetic direction indicator requirement)

Of course you would still need engine instruments so a Dynon EMS would be a good choice and the EFIS may not be that much more money by the time you have added back your steam gauges for altitude and airspeed.

But bottom line in a twtchy airplane like the 2 place RV's the A/P is a VERY useful bit of kit during cross country flying and if it provides you with useful backups then why not?

Trim servo goes up by the trim tab...They are independant....Or do you mean the attitude servo on a three axis A/P?...The altitude hold is not as important as the roll servo...but is certainly nice.

For IFR I just have ALtrak (altitude hold) and a Pictorial pilot...But thats for IFR....I might not bother with the Altrak (or an ADI) for VFR.

Frank
 
frankh said:
Trim servo goes up by the trim tab...They are independant....Or do you mean the attitude servo on a three axis A/P?...The altitude hold is not as important as the roll servo...but is certainly nice.
Frank
Click to expand...

I was thinking more of the aileron trim, where the server is (I believe) down under the floor somewhere (I need to go and check that).

I've been perusing the Dynon website and the D180/HS34 manuals. I think I'll have to do a shoot off here with the AFS kit. Doesn't seem that the D180 can go full screen EMS though. Although a little backward, my goal would be full screen EFIS and full screen EMS with the ability to run EFIS on either screen as backup. In this case, since a D120 (?) is EFIS only, I'd need the D180 to do full screen EMS (99% of the time anyway). I think it can do 2/3 EMS and 1/3 auxilliary (i.e. not EFIS, something else like trim positions, fuel calculator, etc) which is ok. Would also like to know a little more about the Dynon autopilot comment; I guess I'll find out in due course as I won't be buying for quite a while yet.

I haven't had the call to go skydiving today (yet), so maybe I'll get some time to do some research!:p Not a whole lot I can do on the -8 today as I'm waiting on parts from Vans (which shall typically turn up tomorrow morning). I'll continue to fiddle putting the controls together or soemthing...

Thanks for your continued posts everyone, I'm really enjoying the interaction and advice/comments.
 
AntiGravity said:
So how does the autopilot roll servo interact/co-exist with the trim servo, which I believe also lives down in that area?

Dang, you guys have now got me thinking, and whenever that happens it costs me more money! :rolleyes: I shall look into autopilots, but I'm not promising anything!!
Click to expand...

Hey Jeff,

This is really simple! The Tru-Trak roll servo co-exists very well under the seat with the Van's roll trim servo (tight - but they both fit without interference), and the pitch servo goes bcak by the levator bellcrank behind the bagage compartment. Easy to instlal while you're building, and really not hard to retrofit if you do it later (except for running wires to the rear - scar some in now if you are even thinking about it!)

If you're going to do much cross-country, or IFR cross-country, the A/P is a huge help. When you don't want it flying? Turn it off!

No, you don't "need" one.... but eventually, you're gonna "want" one.....

Paul
 
TruTrak DigiFlite II

Sigh; I guess I 'need' to factor in another 4k to my panel budget.

Hey Paul, what's that LCD screen down by your Andair fuel selector? (simply awesome panel, by the way).
 
AntiGravity said:
Sigh; I guess I 'need' to factor in another 4k to my panel budget.

Hey Paul, what's that LCD screen down by your Andair fuel selector? (simply awesome panel, by the way).
Click to expand...

That's the GRT Engine Information System (EIS 4000). I never look at it - it collects the engine data and sends it to the EFIS screens on a serial link. If the entire EFIS goes belly up, then I can look down there for systems info.

Paul
 
AFS screens in NZ

Hey Jeff, I've got an RV7 coming together in Auckland and my panel will be very similar to Paul Story's with a pair of AF3500s and other 'stuff'. Like you I looked at the options and prefer the look of the AFS kit but the $, especially when converted to our pacific peso made me think twice.

The deciding factor for me was "looking good with no regrets"...I didn't want to make a decision now based on $ (not small, but in the context of the whole project not big either - well that how I justify it to myself anyway :) ) that I'd look at in the future and think "bugger". From what I've seen so far of what the AFS stuff can do now and future plans, it's definitely the right decision.

FYI, I'm hoping to be cutting holes in the panel and putting it all together over the coming weeks, let me know if you want to come and have a look next time you're up this way.
 
The D180 can do a full screen engine monitor. Any time you have an EFIS and an EMS in a plane together, any device can do any set of split screens or full screens.

The autopilot isn't released yet, but it's a public secret. We'll be giving out more info in a few months which is why I made that comment. I promise, you won't need to budget $4K ;)
 
Auckland visit

Hi Steve, which side of Auckland are you? I would most certainly like to come take a look once you get those units installed and powered up. Also hoping I might catch a glimpse of Dynon gear 'in the wild' at SportAvex next weekend...
 
Hmmm, am I missing something here?

Ok, now this is confusing! I am starting to think more about the panel so I grabbed the metal and the pictures and put them together. See my kitlog entry [linked] below for the full skinny, but I'm not sure what I'm missing here?

The ePanelBuilder shows that I should be able to fit two AF units, but they sure don't on my metal. I checked the drawings and don't see that there is any 'extra' metal that I'm not taking into account. I also have to be aware of where the panel parts meet and the crossbrace goes.





Link to kitlog entries:-
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=jpreou&project=45&category=0&log=51399&row=2
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=jpreou&project=45&category=0&log=51406&row=1


PS. DynonSupport, don't go getting all excited!:D;)

EDIT: did some more playing; new panel photos; might get the dual AFS in there after all. Comments? (on the AF3400 panel, mostly, but comments on either is ok)

 
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Hi,

Sometimes we drop the bottom of the panel by .5-1 inch or so and most people don't notice. The AFS stuff is great and it will fit. Good luck.

paul
 
paper cutouts

Jeff,
when your done with your paper cutouts, you can mail them to me!!:)

Seriously, where / how did you get them? I'm sure i could find some actual size of maybe one Efis or so, but not all those. I would like to lay mine out the same way on paper.

BTW, i'm struggling with same decisions. Not near as far as you, but still not decided on which EFIS to use. AFS has best graphics, but form and fit don't seem as nice as GRT and DYNON. (No company bashing here, they all have something different i like over another) Plus MGL keeps adding features. Nice to have so many choices in experimentals.

good luck.

jeff h
 
Jeff,
If you need Dynon cutouts, drop us an email at support (at) dynonavionics.com

We hand out life size cutouts at all the airshows we attend, but we can mail you a few if you need them as well. Sorry, to say, we don't have AFS or GRT cutouts ;)
 
AntiGravity said:
Why would you install an autopilot? What do you feel you are missing out on? You're right though, I do see it as a luxury. That and the fact that I want to fly my plane, and not necessarily right side up all the time! (hence my inverted oil plans)

Everyone else; how easy is it to retrofit to a completed airplane? What kind of cost is it? (yeah, I know I could go price it up, but I'm lazy and all I really need is a ballpark!).
Click to expand...

On the 8 the truetrack roll servo fits under the pilot's seat and the pitch servo fits behind the baggage compartment just in front of the elevator bellcrank. It should be no different than doing it now.
 
Not sure if you are aware, but the AoA display would be redundant. The AFS EFIS already has an AoA display built in.

AntiGravity said:
Ok, now this is confusing! I am starting to think more about the panel so I grabbed the metal and the pictures and put them together. See my kitlog entry [linked] below for the full skinny, but I'm not sure what I'm missing here?

The ePanelBuilder shows that I should be able to fit two AF units, but they sure don't on my metal. I checked the drawings and don't see that there is any 'extra' metal that I'm not taking into account. I also have to be aware of where the panel parts meet and the crossbrace goes.





Link to kitlog entries:-
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=jpreou&project=45&category=0&log=51399&row=2
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=jpreou&project=45&category=0&log=51406&row=1


PS. DynonSupport, don't go getting all excited!:D;)

EDIT: did some more playing; new panel photos; might get the dual AFS in there after all. Comments? (on the AF3400 panel, mostly, but comments on either is ok)

Click to expand...
 
AoA

Hi Jorge, yes I know that technically the AoA display would not be required with the AFS units but I really want the display right up on the glareshield. I am in the process of ordering Trutrak servo install kits. :rolleyes:

JeffH - Dynon and AFS cutouts straight off their website. Other stuff I got from teh 'instrument view' of ePanel builder. Trutrak and PMA9000 from their PDFs. Some creative resizing and printing in PaintShop Pro and we're all set. I'll have colour versions after I get back from work tonight!;)
 
Jeff-------

Why dual screens in the first place???

I fly with a buddy who has a single AFS 3500, way easy to see all the info on a single screen,.

As to the mock-ups you posted, the AOA display is built into the unit, so ditch the one you show. The flat pack auto pilot head should fit there nicely.

With a single radio, why the audio panel--at least I think the bottom unit is an audio panel????

And, with AFS now doing mapping, do you really need the Garmin??
 
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Annunciation Audible

Hi,

Great thread. ON the AFS or DYON, do you need an audio (gma 340) to "hear" the audible annunciations, or do they go right to the built in intercom of say the SL 30?? Thanks!
 
Jorge,
I see you have an HS34 in your Dynon panel. Given your SL-30 and Garmin X96, there really isn't a need or use for the HS34 unless you want voice alerts. Not having this could save you some panel space and money.
 
I'd like to know the answer to this too...

AZChandler said:
Hi,

Great thread. ON the AFS or DYON, do you need an audio (gma 340) to "hear" the audible annunciations, or do they go right to the built in intercom of say the SL 30?? Thanks!
Click to expand...

Other than the other features of the PMA9000EX (bluetooth cellphone, onboard MP3, etc, etc) do I need an audio panel to get the audible alerts from the AoA/EFIS/etc?

RE: the separate AoA display; I want it up on the glareshield where it will be very visible and not 'lost' in the EFIS display where I need to look down into the cockpit to find it.

RE: the dual screens. Dunno really! I just like that layout; I like to keep EFIS and EMS on totally separate screens.

And to answer the obvious; no, I have no basis or experience on which to draw; I'm working on gut feel and desire! :D I figure if I'm spending so much money on a plane I may as well have what I want, which may not necessarily be the same as minimum need or sensible. Not that I specifically am trying to be frivolous, but I don't ever what to sit in it and think "I wish I had done <xxxx> like I wanted instead of this". Within reason, obviously. After all, if we based building a plane on sensible financial decisions we wouldn't be building at all, at least not here in NZ!
 
AntiGravity said:
I figure if I'm spending so much money on a plane I may as well have what I want, which may not necessarily be the same as minimum need or sensible. ...I don't ever what to sit in it and think "I wish I had done <xxxx> like I wanted instead of this". Within reason, obviously. After all, if we based building a plane on sensible financial decisions we wouldn't be building at all, at least not here in NZ!
Click to expand...



Boy, this sums up this whole ball of wax--the very idea of what we're doing here--very nicely!:)

Joe
 
We have full size cutouts for all of our systems that we can send you, just drop me an email or give us a call at the office.


The number of screens is totally a personal preference; here are my own observations (I am obviously biased):

In my RV-4 I have the following Equipment with no mechanical backups.

AF-3500EE EFIS/Engine/Moving Map/AOA
SL30 Nav/Com
Garmin 496 GPS
Dynon D10 EFIS/AOA
AFS AOA PRO
AFS-GPS GPS Module
Digiflight II VSGV Autopilot

I really like the 496 and until recently could not imagine flying without it. I have always said that if it got stolen at Oshkosh I would buy a new one before I flew home. With our latest mapping software which includes terrain, airport info and airspaces, I find that I use the 496 less and less. Today, I flew the RV-4 up to Glasair in Seattle and it was so nice to have the airspace altitudes right on the large EFIS map screen. On the 496 I was always trying to select them so that they would display on the screen. In dense airspace it can be difficult to select the correct airspace.
I feel that my RV-4 is perfectly suited for light IFR and, yes, I even like having the D10A as a backup instrument along with the autopilot and 496?s instrument panel.

I am currently getting my Instrument rating in a C-172 with Garmin G1000?s and gaining a lot of valuable experience using them. I have been flying 2 to 3 days a week in actual IFR conditions. There are many features that I like about the G1000 and we are making some changes to our EFIS software related to my IFR training experience. What I have discovered is that I don?t like having everything in one system. Last Tuesday, when I was in the rain and clouds I just kept thinking, ?If this thing fails I will have to use three little mechanical backup instruments with no radio, gps, or even a transponder.? I now carry my hand-held radio and 496 in the plane.

Today, I managed to trade my RV-4 for the new Glasair Sportsman factory demonstrator (at least for a week) and flew it home from Arlington. It?s not an RV but it is one awesome plane with the following equipment:

AF-3500EF EFIS
AF-3400EM Engine Monitor
Garmin 430W
SL-40
Mechanical backups (Horizon, airspeed, altitude).
Zaon Traffic (I used mine for the trip)
Digiflight II VSG

I really liked having two large EFIS screens. I used the right screen to display the moving map and the Zaon traffic worked great with our map. I have found that the TIS traffic in the G1000 does not work very well around here below 3000?. The Zaon seems to work great even at low altitudes. Last weekend, I took off from our home strip in the RV then heard my son in the C140 take off from Aurora with the Zaon and 396. He called me up on the radio and said, ?Are you over the river at 2100ft going toward Portland?? It was exactly where I was. The Sportsman would be a fantastic airplane in which to get my instrument training. It is fast, comfortable and has the separate radios and GPS units, which I prefer.

We should have some pictures and video later this week showing how awesome our system works in the Sportsman with the dual screen EFIS?s, AOA, MAP, ILS, LPV, and Traffic. I can?t wait to finish my IFR rating!!

Rob Hickman [email protected]
Advanced Flight Systems Inc.
N401RH RV-4
N402RH RV-10 (Finish)
N86SP Sportsman (for a week)
 
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