Thoughts on Zip Ties in engine compartment

[RV7Guy]

I love the arguments for and against zip ties vs lacing cord. I'll bet many of the same folks, will have a shiny new EFIS backed up by a bunch of archaic steam gauges. Back then, there was no reasonable alternative to tie wires or replacement for steam gauges. Technology advances and new stuff is invented. The zip ties are one example as are the incredible electronics we now have. The internet allows us to get our underwear in a wad over virtually any issue. Entertaining but mostly without merit.

Zip ties are quick, efficient and just as good as lacing cord. The downside of course is the potential scratches and cuts you can get. As Paul noted, they are not illegal and I'm sure never will be.

For use FWF, get the high temp versions and use with confidence. I had many standard Home Depot zip ties in my engine compartment that lasted through the high temps we deal with in AZ. I have since replaced all of them with the high temp units.

For any contact with the engine mount, I simply use one wrap of the red silicon tape (Rescue tape) before using zip ties or adel clamps. After attaching and cutting a zip tie, I use a razor blade and trim it flush with the housing. In most cases you can get to them.

I have also started using the new "belt" style ties. With a little practice they work much better, look great and you don't get cut.

Finally, the helicopters I fly for work run about 3 million each, all turbine powered. 2 of them made by Eurocopter, the other by Bell. Behind the panel, under the engine cowling and the transmission cowling you'll find only zip ties, no lacing cord. This has got to say something.

[Toobuilder]

Originally Posted by RV7Guy

...Finally, the helicopters I fly for work run about 3 million each, all turbine powered. 2 of them made by Eurocopter, the other by Bell. Behind the panel, under the engine cowling and the transmission cowling you'll find only zip ties, no lacing cord. This has got to say something.

It says a lot... First thing that comes to mind is that these are manufactured by employees who are paid by the hour... The company wants the aircraft kicked out the door as fast as possible and zip ties are "good enough"...

Zip ties are great and may "meet" requirements, but I still think Adel clamps and string tie is "better".

[RV8R999]

I agree adel clamps are far superior in strength and reliability but they are a royal pain to install, they are much heavier and when using to secure cable runs - overkill. Plus they decrease the workable unobstructed volume in the engine compartment since they stand-off about 1.5" from the engine mount for the length of the cable run.

The engineer in me agrees with the hourly worker - if its quicker, lighter, easier, and yes CHEAPER and it does the job then it is better. However, since we are all building our own "custom" airplanes to each his own.

At the Naval Test Pilot School there is a slogan above one of the classrooms that reads "Better is the enemy of good enough". I agree.

2c,

Ken

[Build9A]

I've read this thread regarding zip ties and started wondering if I had made a mistake in using them FWF. Mine are home depot quality except below the engine where I used high temp. I always inspect them at the annual and have not seen any obvious problems. 4 years and counting and getting ready for my next condition inspection. After reading this I think I will replace them all with new ones. But I am going to leave a few in place to see how long they last.

Does anyone have any examples or pictures of where zip ties actually caused damage to their engine mount? or some other real problem?

thanks

[dan]

Originally Posted by RV7Guy

After attaching and cutting a zip tie, I use a razor blade and trim it flush with the housing.

Or you can use a tie wrap puller such as a Panduit GS2B. I've found 'em on ebay used for not too much. They make tensioning and flush-cutting one-step and pretty much idiotproof.

[the_other_dougreeves]

Originally Posted by RV8R999

The engineer in me agrees with the hourly worker - if its quicker, lighter, easier, and yes CHEAPER and it does the job then it is better. However, since we are all building our own "custom" airplanes to each his own.

At the Naval Test Pilot School there is a slogan above one of the classrooms that reads "Better is the enemy of good enough". I agree.

To expand on this, every airplane's design and construction can be made better. However, at some point, the airplane has to be judged "good enough and turned loose to go fly, unless you want the aviation version of the Winchester Mansion, or if you want to be the aviation version of Chip Foose, who regularly spends over $1,000,000 building a custom hot rod. As you say, it's up to each of us to decide what is "good enough". Zip ties are good enough for me for most applications.

Applying the concept to one's flying skills is a little different - our skills should always be improving as we age and gather experiences, and those skills quickly deteriorate when not applied. The same isn't true of an airplane's design - it's the same as it was built until we change it.

TODR

[Ed_Wischmeyer]

As I understand it -- if I do -- the problem with zip ties on the motor mount is that they can capture grit and that grit, not the zip tie, starts abrading the motor mount. Adel clamps are the high class (not to mention high cost and high hassle) solution. Of course, once the grit has chewed through the paint on the motor mount, then you've got a repair job.

[jarhead]

Quoting myself...

Originally Posted by jarhead

Go here and read paragraph 11-96(b) and (o), then read paragraph 11-146, (a) and (b).

Left alone long enough, a ziptie will cut through the engine mount tubing like a saw - dirt and oil gets between the plastic & steel and acts like a wet saw. I just replaced part of an engine mount on a Bell 412 helicopter due to it being damaged beyond limits by zipties holding drainlines in place. It's been just about a year since this aircraft had last been in to see us (it's in for an annual); there were no zipties on the engine mounts when it last left us.

If you don't want to use Adel clamps everywhere, pick some place other than FWF on your RV...

[brianwallis]

I've seen a lot of damage from(loose install) zip ties and firmly reccomend adel clamps, use the force.......... Don't win a Darwin Award.

[Snowflake]

Originally Posted by dan

Or you can use a tie wrap puller such as a Panduit GS2B. I've found 'em on ebay used for not too much. They make tensioning and flush-cutting one-step and pretty much idiotproof.

I picked up two of these for $10 from Boeing Surplus back when they used to sell such things. I now keep one in my tool box at work and the other at home. We had a Panduit rep in to my office a number of years ago who saw mine and asked where I got it... I told him, and he said that it's likely that one of the Boeing employees had dropped it in the "scrap" bin and was planning to pick it up in the Surplus store the next day for home use. Apparently that was quite common (maybe it's why there's no Boeing Surplus anymore...). He said they were about $250 each new.