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Propeller blast etiquette......

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rvbuilder2002

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It is always frustrating when this happens but even more so when done by an RV owner/pilot. I always have hopes that they are above average when compared to the general pilot population but time and time again I find that is not the case.

An RV-10 owner (I don't know who so they can fully remain anonymous) just left Van's Aircraft in what from a distance looked like a beautifully built airplane after a short visit.

If you have ever visited you know that there is a pretty good sized paved ramp area in front of the hangar for aircraft parking. The typical parking method is to pull onto the ramp facing towards the hangar (you will find all of the company airplanes positioned this way if they are outside).
When any airplane leaves, it can turn 90 degrees, taxi down the ramp a short distance and then make the big turn to taxi away from the ramp towards the runway.

What happened today (third time this week actually), and is far too common, is the RV-10 pilot used high power to do a 180 degree pivot turn (they were the only airplane parked on the ramp) which left their tail only about 60 from the open front of the hangar.

I am getting tired of cleaning out the hangar so often.....:mad:

Over the years, I have seen other airplanes sand blasted, canopys blown shut (and damaged), control surfaces damaged, and yes, hangars filled with CR%p.....
All by other pilots that failed to think and often times taxied away totally oblivious regarding what they had done (as likely is the case in this instance).

Good reminder lesson for all of us.....
When operating the engine on the ground (whether taxiing, doing a run-up, or whatever) please keep in mind where your airplane is pointed and what is behind you.
 
Maybe part of the PP course is to have the student pilot dawn some goggles and stand behind an aircraft as it throttles up to move out of a parking spot, not too many people realize the amount of wind that is generated from a prop that is only turning 900-1100 RPM :rolleyes:
 
Thanks for the post, Scott. That is one of my biggest pet peeves. It's not just hangars. It's tents. Other aircraft. Lawnchairs. Pancakes. Families lined up and watching.

I too would like to think RV pilots are more situationaly aware of their prop blast than most. Alas, many times this is not the case. Don't get me wrong. The nominal Cirrus pilot is in an ignorance category all their own, but when it comes to regular joe pilots like RVers I remained stunned at how many don't ever think about their tail position at all.

When I learned to fly ground-friendly tail position was taught by my primary instructor. And as a young lad the first time I blasted the Sunday crowd at West Texas Airport I was practically beheaded by the airport owner when I shut down. I can still hear and see him in my face like it was yesterday. It was a good thing as it is in the forefront of my mind every time I taxi.

At Cactus Fly-In 2015 we were walking the line of aircraft when we saw a Cirrus Guy getting ready to fire up right from the line with aircraft all around him. I waved at the fellow (pilot?) and asked through his window if he would like to have a few of us push him out 90 degrees to the flight line and he angrily yelled to not touch his airplane. Having typed that I am starting to think I am a natural at getting chewed out. Back to the story there were two Carbon Cubs parked tail to tail right behind the guy and another the next line over facing forward. The Cirrus Guy fired up and goosed his engine while about a dozen people hung onto the Carbon Cubs to keep them from flipping over. It's was quite the ride hanging on a lift strut. But that's a Cirrus Guy for you. The Bonanza guys have been off the hook since the plastic airplane from Minnesota has showed up. The point is he only helped reinforce the reputation of Cirrus Guys everywhere.

Etiquette. It's a fine way to make sure RV pilot's don't get (or keep) any similar reputations. Situational awareness on the ground can sometimes be as important as in the air. And it would behoove us as a whole segment to drop some friendly hints to the Cirrus Guys (or clueless RV pilots). If nothing else it's a great way to find out who is a Type A and who isn't.

Jim
 
Sarcasm

You guys should be honored to receive my jet blast or prop wash! /s
 
Thanks for the post, Scott. That is one of my biggest pet peeves. It's not just hangars. It's tents. Other aircraft. Lawnchairs. Pancakes. Families lined up and watching.

I too would like to think RV pilots are more situationaly aware of their prop blast than most. Alas, many times this is not the case. Don't get me wrong. The nominal Cirrus pilot is in an ignorance category all their own, but when it comes to regular joe pilots like RVers I remained stunned at how many don't ever think about their tail position at all.

When I learned to fly ground-friendly tail position was taught by my primary instructor. And as a young lad the first time I blasted the Sunday crowd at West Texas Airport I was practically beheaded by the airport owner when I shut down. I can still hear and see him in my face like it was yesterday. It was a good thing as it is in the forefront of my mind every time I taxi.

At Cactus Fly-In 2015 we were walking the line of aircraft when we saw a Cirrus Guy getting ready to fire up right from the line with aircraft all around him. I waved at the fellow (pilot?) and asked through his window if he would like to have a few of us push him out 90 degrees to the flight line and he angrily yelled to not touch his airplane. Having typed that I am starting to think I am a natural at getting chewed out. Back to the story there were two Carbon Cubs parked tail to tail right behind the guy and another the next line over facing forward. The Cirrus Guy fired up and goosed his engine while about a dozen people hung onto the Carbon Cubs to keep them from flipping over. It's was quite the ride hanging on a lift strut. But that's a Cirrus Guy for you. The Bonanza guys have been off the hook since the plastic airplane from Minnesota has showed up. The point is he only helped reinforce the reputation of Cirrus Guys everywhere.

Etiquette. It's a fine way to make sure RV pilot's don't get (or keep) any similar reputations. Situational awareness on the ground can sometimes be as important as in the air. And it would behoove us as a whole segment to drop some friendly hints to the Cirrus Guys (or clueless RV pilots). If nothing else it's a great way to find out who is a Type A and who isn't.

Jim
In addition to my RV-8, I also own a Cirrus :eek: I guess I'm a Cirrus Guy :eek: My apologies! :rolleyes:

Don't forget that these morons also fly other brands. Point in case, I had just cleared Customs in Minot ND early this month and a guy in a Piper Meridian, which was parked directly in front of my Cirrus :eek: fired up and sat there for at least 20 minutes blasting my plane with his exhaust. And just last weekend in Destin, FL, I watched a moron in a Cessna :eek: blast his way out of parking in front of a Baron :eek:

It happens everywhere, unfortunately and it's not just us "Cirrus People"
 
It's some kind of Federal offense to damage a plane.

Just inform them/remind them. With a loaded plane these types are locked in execution, no way they are getting out or, as you saw, letting you touch.

Rookies that don't know their blast don't know how to pack the plane, load and not be sunk in divots, etc.

They are important, late and in a rush, just ask 'em ;)

I'm not saying have a confrontation or get run over.

You have to catch them early, ask when they plan on leaving and if they'd like a hand. If they decline, point out their negligence will be recorded with whatever wit, pith, humor, fear, loathing and sarcasm level applies.

Get their name early, the N# will just be some insulated LLC.
 
18 U.S. Code ? 32 - Destruction of aircraft or aircraft facilities

18 U.S. Code ? 32 - Destruction of aircraft

(a) Whoever willfully?
(1) damages, destroys, disables, or wrecks any aircraft in the special aircraft jurisdiction of the United States;
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years or both.

Above abridged by the undersigned, link to full section:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/32

Cheers, David
 
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You mean there are pilots out there willfully prop-blasting hangars and other aircraft!?
 
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They are if you tell them AHEAD of time. The chit sandwich technique applies, be nice and tactful, helping offer the unsolicited observation. Remind, if they carry on, that they now know it's not going to be an accident but intentional if they damage anything.

Try and make it their idea of the when/how solution. Then repeat above, recorded, if need be.

Over dramatic b.s. but it's lawyerish and works.

It's an accident and mistake and ignorance, all excuseable in some legal way UNTIL you make a nice 10 second vlog covering the informational warning to and of their face.

Not my choice way to handle it, but it works.

Just grabbing a strut/tent when they leave may not be enough. Just standing by filming just catches the accident.

It's basically poor gun control. Is that allowed in a similar setting? Tons of thrust or just a few hundred HP- is it ok to wave around a .22 in public but not a .50 cal?
 
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It's shocking how often I see the same thing Scott - and its pilots in all different types and sizes of airplanes. Folks just don't seem to have any idea what's going on back there...I blame it on learning to drive before learning to fly. They think "car" when they are on the ground, and what problem does a car make?

The most recent bad example I saw was really egregious, and the blame has to be shared between the pilot and the volunteer ground handler. It was at Inmdependence, just before the eclipse. A Baron taxied in, and the ground handler stood in front of the plane and directed him to do a 90 degree pivot, right in front of the tent that served as headquarters for the event. The Baron pilot powered up his outside engine and pivoted - with tables, chairs, hats, papers - everything - blowing around along with dirt and grit. The pilot shouldn't have done it, but the ground volunteer should have seen what he was directing the guy to do!

The only person e can truly control is ourselves - so just make sure you've never pulled a stunt like this....
 
In my little world (as a CFI), I call this airmanship. It is sorely lacking. However; concern for anyone other than oneself is lacking in our current society. Nonetheless; I attempt to teach it and use the example that a Navy F4 pilot shared with me about having a giant blow torch sticking out the back of his airplane - ready to burn whatever it came near and/or blow it off the deck -
including good sailors who would likely fall to their death. Think - think- think...
 
They are if you tell them AHEAD of time. The chit sandwich technique applies, be nice and tactful, helping offer the unsolicited observation. Remind, if they carry on, that they now know it's not going to be an accident but intentional if they damage anything.

Try and make it their idea of the when/how solution. Then repeat above, recorded, if need be.

Over dramatic b.s. but it's lawyerish and works.

It's an accident and mistake and ignorance, all excuseable in some legal way UNTIL you make a nice 10 second vlog covering the informational warning to and of their face.

Not my choice way to handle it, but it works.

Just grabbing a strut/tent when they leave may not be enough. Just standing by filming just catches the accident.

It's basically poor gun control. Is that allowed in a similar setting? Tons of thrust or just a few hundred HP- is it ok to wave around a .22 in public but not a .50 cal?

Some grade-A internet lawyering there. I can see how that conversation will go...

Superior RV pilot: "Hey if you do X you might cause Y to happen"

Inferior 'any other pilot': "Oh? Well I don't think so, but thanks."

Does X, Y happens...

Superior RV pilot: "Ha, I got you! Now you've knowingly damaged an aircraft and that's a FELONY. I told you Y would happen and you did it anyway, that means you meant to do it!!!!11!"

Inferior 'any other pilot': "Well... um... I didn't actually mean to do that so I guess I'll just pay for the damage like ANY OTHER ACCIDENT so calm yourself there sheriff."

Superior RV pilot: Doesn't hear any of it, because they've clearly figured it all out already.

If you take exception to the pilot's names please re-read these responses and look honestly at the attitude...
 
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while I would like someone to spend a day in a federal penitentiary for filling my hangar with dirt and leaves from their prop blast, I don't think that's gonna happen. :D

Due to my hangar location, I deal with people's prop blast filling my hangar with dirt/leaves anytime I am at my hangar with the doors open. It is very frustrating. I wish I had a solution. I do try and give them a friendly wave in order that they may realize the error of their ways, but I don't think many realize it or care.

Since I cant control other people and their prop blast, I don't dwell on it for too long after I finish blowing out my hangar.
 
Not a RV issue, generally. Not inferior/superior. Didn't need a grade for my pro-am version of how not to get in trouble. My context is how to keep metal from being bent when you see a problem in 2017. Not a dust up. Not even legal advice.

Just one with a clue and common sense and decency and one lacking or having a bad day or now in a rush.

Just the OP had a -10 v hangar.

My point is for the more money than common sense crowd.

Not for hotheads, idiots or those with nothing to lose.
Doth protest too much? .

Point is if you handle it ahead of time, before doors close and engines start, no problem, usually. Don't like my trick or treat version? Great.
 
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Not a RV issue, generally. Not inferior/superior.

Just one with a clue and common sense and decency and one lacking or having a bad day or now in a rush.

Just the OP had a -10 v hangar.

My point is for the more money than common sense crowd.

Not for hotheads, idiots or those with nothing to lose.

Doth protest too much? ;).

Nope, just making fun of elitism, cliqueness and over-dramatization ;)
 
In which thread, post and forum was that?

Ok, you asked.

"I always have hopes that they are above average when compared to the general pilot population"- Nice thought I guess, but what?

"I too would like to think RV pilots are more situationaly aware of their prop blast than most."- Huh? Why would that be?

"The nominal Cirrus pilot is in an ignorance category all their own"- Lolz, people who fly Cirrus' are stupid/lazy/unskilled, amirite?

"The point is he only helped reinforce the reputation of Cirrus Guys everywhere."- As apparently we're apt to do here as well...

Just surprising attitudes from a purportedly "welcoming" community. And we wonder why GA is on the decline...

The over-dramatization was referencing yours and others suggestion that this would constitute willful destruction of an aircraft, it does not.
 
Ok, it looks like the thread is drifting off topic just a bit.........

Yea, I was venting a bit, but my primary reason for the post was in hopes that if even just a few people read it and thought about it the next time they flew, it would have a worthwhile result.
 
How is it off topic in a thread scolding pilots to scold pilots?

Brings to mind: When you point your finger at someone there will be 10 more pointing back at you.

[Is there a propwash equivalent?]
 
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How is it off topic in a thread scolding pilots to scold pilots?

Brings to mind: When you point your finger at someone there will be 10 more pointing back at you.

[Is there a propwash equivalent?]
Acually only 7.
 
I've always found that *if I can catch them before they've started up*, I can have a nice, quiet, polite conversation. I usually start with something like "Are you going to start up right here?" If they say yes, then I ask "Do you mind pulling your plane over *there*, so that your prop wash doesn't blast dirt/sand/gravel all over my aircraft?" I'll offer to help them (and point to where their prop blast is going to go...towards my plane). That usually works, but you have to catch them in time.

If they've already started, it's too late, other than to hold on to your plane/control surfaces and just shake your head at them after they gun it and taxi out.

AND, it certainly helps to set a good example...by not only pulling your plane out so that it doesn't blast others, but also gently making a point of it (e.g., at the gas pumps..."I'll pull my plane out over here so that I don't blast your aircraft").

But sometimes, there's no accounting for stupid...the guy who starts up while parked in the spot, with planes behind him, and he appears clueless that he's blasting not one, but TWO aircraft as he gives it way too much to start, then sits and listens to ATIS, configures his cockpit, etc., etc., then guns it to taxi out of the spot. Grrrr.....
 
Ok, it looks like the thread is drifting off topic just a bit.........

Yea, I was venting a bit, but my primary reason for the post was in hopes that if even just a few people read it and thought about it the next time they flew, it would have a worthwhile result.

Absolutely, prop blast is annoying and inconsiderate and this thread is a good reminder to think a little more about our taxiing. Thanks for bringing it up.
 
How is it off topic in a thread scolding pilots to scold pilots?

Brings to mind: When you point your finger at someone there will be 10 more pointing back at you.

[Is there a propwash equivalent?]

Hmmmmm, I might be misreading you but that kind of sounds a bit like the attitude being described by some posting in this thread.
None of us (my self included) belong in the pilot seat if our ego elevates us above accepting input from other pilots if we are doing something that is impacting others.
 
Altering behavior

From the start of this thread:

"What happened today (third time this week actually), and is far too common, is the RV-10 pilot used high power to do a 180 degree pivot turn (they were the only airplane parked on the ramp) which left their tail only about 60 from the open front of the hangar.

I am getting tired of cleaning out the hangar so often....."

3 times a week !
Perhaps some video cameras and posting morons of the week on you tube will alter behavior quickly. You need a couple of camera angles to catch the rocks and debris bouncing around inside the hangar along with the N number of the perp. I suspect MOST of the pilots have never had this happen to them or they would quickly add it to their must not ever do this list.
 
Some of it is just training...the wrong kind.

Many larger FBOs want to park arrivals close to the door, so the linemen park them in a conga line. Guarantees prop blast/jet blast, but pilots figure it's not their problem until they are on the receiving end. After all, the linemen load 'em and flag 'em out from right there.

Ok, so you taxi in, refuse the lineman's directions, and go park at the edge of the ramp, in the tiedown line with the overnights. When is the last time you saw a line crew pull an airplane out and turn it 90 degrees so the owner could crank? It doesn't happen. The owner may not be able to move a large bird himself, uphill against the drainage slope, even if he had a towbar in the airplane. He doesn't want the line crew pushing on the airplane, and they're not going after a tug. The usual response is "Oh, I'll flag you out".

A long time ago I managed a flight line where the shape of the ramp meant we parked arrivals in a conga line, and blasted the tiedown line turning them in.

Same ramp, years later, and I found myself hanging onto my Cub, breathing hot kerosene exhaust, while a big Lear spent 5 minutes trying to flip it. I assume he was speaking to clearance delivery. Big peeve of mine; go do calls and checklists at the end of the ramp!

Point is, folks who fly in and out of the bigger airports a lot have been acclimated to ignoring their own wake, while guys who base at Podunk Local and blow dirt in their neighbor's hanger tend to get personal attention.
 
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Embarrassing!

Well, I have to confess some of you guys have been describing me, and I apologize!

One of the places I rent has their aircraft as shown in this photo, and everyone starts up while still in the tiedown location, and yes, I'm one. Sorry about that, won't do it again! In the future I'll drag it out after pre-flight and start up perpendicular to the parking areas in the "alley".

PropBlastProblem.png


Thanks for the discussion, and again, apologies to anyone I have blasted.
 
We've probably all done it

I try to be careful, but I'm sure at some point I've failed to realize what was behind me before starting up. Good thread and a good reminder.

For the OP, it sounds like enough of a hassle that it might make sense to put up a big sign, black on yellow, maybe hanging from the hangar rafters and visible whenever your door is open: "Watch that prop blast!" Extra points if it includes a humorous graphic of cats and dogs etc. being blown through the air.

I have no doubt that a fair number of people will still ignore it. :)
 
I'm familiar with at least one airport where "they" put a large hangar or two right behind the runup area and tie down airplanes outside of it :confused:. There's just no real good way to do a runup there without blasting someone or something. About the best you can do is point away from any aircraft that are tied down, holding short, or taxiing, and aim at a hangar that's closed.
 
Had a Bonanza taxi past our open hangar (next to his) and use high power to swing the nose out thereby dusting the heck out of our hangar, plane, and everything else. THEN he gets out and grabs his POWER TUG to push it in with! Aaaagh, I was so hot I had to walk away. Some people just don't get it and have zero situational awareness.
 
Well, I have to confess some of you guys have been describing me, and I apologize!

One of the places I rent has their aircraft as shown in this photo, and everyone starts up while still in the tiedown location, and yes, I'm one. Sorry about that, won't do it again! In the future I'll drag it out after pre-flight and start up perpendicular to the parking areas in the "alley".

PropBlastProblem.png


Thanks for the discussion, and again, apologies to anyone I have blasted.

Well now don't beat yourself up too much... Depends how you do it and how wide the alley is. There's not much issue taxiing out of such a spot so long as you don't blast your way out of the spot and around the corner. A small increase in power to get rolling shouldn't hurt the airplanes on the other side of the taxiway, and common courtesy requires us to pull the throttle back to idle as we swing the tail through the airplanes on either side... So it can be done if you think about it. OTOH, a heavy twin on flat spotted tires is going to create all kinds of chaos if they try the same thing, but a light RV should be no issue.
 
My least favorite parking spot for lunch or breakfast is KSGJ St Augustine.
They line us up parallel to that twin in the middle of the picture.
To pull out of line puts you with the blast into the lean to building that usually has planes in it. They basically put you in a dead end.
Pulling all the way out is uphill and very difficult when solo. If you motor then the uphill causes you to use even more power.
It is pretty much a no win.

14w3k7b.jpg
 
This subject needs discussion in all forums

Look at the ramp photo again keeping in mind that the prop blast spreads, covering a much larger area than just the arc of the propeller in front of the plane. The blast does spread out to the point that it does impact the ailerons of the planes not directly behind you.

My worst experience with this problem occurred at Sun & Fun when many RV pilots wanting to get out before the airport was closed for the air show, jump in their planes, fire up in their parking spot and blast out. Keep in mind there is soft sand and grass that tends to require rather high RPM to taxi. It all happened unexpectedly and I hurried to my RV6A to hang on to the tail surfaces while my wife hung on to the ailerons. I tried to attract the attention of the volunteers who?s purpose are to direct traffic, all to no avail. The volunteers should have immediately required those pilots to shut down and pull into the alley to start.

I have also had my hanger prop blasted along with my plane inside. Talk about getting mad, yes I lost control, but that?s another story.
 
I know we have some rotary-wing pilots in this crowd. Just ask them if there's ANY way to land or take off without something or somebody getting blown over.

A fellow who ties his C150 down in front of our row hangar insists on taxiing into his tie down spot. He's parked on grass and blows all the grass back into the row hangar. Three row hangar owners have asked him to desist and yet he continues. Really makes one wonder...
 
Good reminder ...

This thread is a good reminder - and a way to educate the uneducated. Propblast etiquette was never mentioned or taught by my otherwise excellent original flight instructor. I had never thought about the issue until I read it in these very forums back in 2005.
This seems to be a more important issue for those of who spent years building our RVs. I perceive most of the spam can guys and "super rich" have never thought about it .... it's up to us to teach them.
Live and learn .... read VAF and learn!! :):)
 
Well now don't beat yourself up too much... Depends how you do it and how wide the alley is. There's not much issue taxiing out of such a spot so long as you don't blast your way out of the spot and around the corner. A small increase in power to get rolling shouldn't hurt the airplanes on the other side of the taxiway, and common courtesy requires us to pull the throttle back to idle as we swing the tail through the airplanes on either side... So it can be done if you think about it. OTOH, a heavy twin on flat spotted tires is going to create all kinds of chaos if they try the same thing, but a light RV should be no issue.

I can't agree with this. First, how many people do you see starting up with the throttle opened way too much, and the RPMs going to 1800 or so when the engine lights up? Then, as you said, you have to increase power to overcome friction. And lastly, it's *just not necessary* to start there, and send sand and gravel and FOD back at the aircraft behind you.

I say common courtesy requires us to pull out planes out and start them where they won't blast other aircraft.
 
I know we have some rotary-wing pilots in this crowd. Just ask them if there's ANY way to land or take off without something or somebody getting blown over.

A fellow who ties his C150 down in front of our row hangar insists on taxiing into his tie down spot. He's parked on grass and blows all the grass back into the row hangar. Three row hangar owners have asked him to desist and yet he continues. Really makes one wonder...

Maybe return the favor... when taxiing by his airplane? ;)
 
My hangar was across from flight school and while there I have walked out with a broom and gave to the flight instructor upon their return many times. Red in face and sheepish grin to student and I found the student were more apologetic and willing to man a second broom. Almost had them trained then was able to move to different location on Airport.:cool:
 
Thread Steal! Besides the blasters, there's another type of mindless oaf that I come across more often...the dope who pulls up to the hold short line and THEN does their run-up and take-off check list, blocking access to the runway for those ready to depart. Half of them seem to be with instructors! The latest was at Council Bluffs two weeks ago. After one minute I bugged them. Then another few minutes of prep, then waiting unnecessarily for a Slowtation five miles out. Complete lack of situational awareness.

None of these characters own the airport.

John Siebold
 
I can't agree with this. First, how many people do you see starting up with the throttle opened way too much, and the RPMs going to 1800 or so when the engine lights up? Then, as you said, you have to increase power to overcome friction. And lastly, it's *just not necessary* to start there, and send sand and gravel and FOD back at the aircraft behind you.

I say common courtesy requires us to pull out planes out and start them where they won't blast other aircraft.

Its situational. I'm not going to blast anyones airplane, but I'm also not going to pull out a surveyors transit to ensure my tail isn't pointed at any other airplane on the field either.

And lets not forget that blocking the alley while you shove the airplane out, load up, strap in listen to ATIS, and crank up is not exactly courteous either.

This situation revolves around about the "aware" and the "clueless"... Not the degrees in between.
 
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And lets not forget that blocking the alley while you shove the airplane out, load up, strap in listen to ATIS, and crank up is not exactly courteous either.

Not to mention the guy behind you in the alley that is trying to conform to the goal of this thread who will get propwashed by you while avoiding do the same to others.

Isn't the real point to be as courteous as possible at all times?

Of course we need to be aware of what else is happening around us and use some judgement before we light the fire.

No need for finger pointing.
 
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For those of you who feel your plane should never be blasted, don't fly it.... for what a blast that is!😊😊
 
Thread Steal! Besides the blasters, there's another type of mindless oaf that I come across more often...the dope who pulls up to the hold short line and THEN does their run-up and take-off check list, blocking access to the runway for those ready to depart. Half of them seem to be with instructors! The latest was at Council Bluffs two weeks ago. After one minute I bugged them. Then another few minutes of prep, then waiting unnecessarily for a Slowtation five miles out. Complete lack of situational awareness.

None of these characters own the airport.

John Siebold

This is a real problem at my airport. Instructors are accustomed to doing their training briefing at the hold short line. Probably because most often they have the airport to themselves. I have waited upwards of 10 minutes. Unfortunately, the airport does not allow intersection t/o's. Even more egregious is that 500' away is a huge apron where all of the courteous pilots do their run-ups. :mad:

I don't blame the students. It's the instructors that could care less about inconveniencing someone else. However, it is a shame that they are teaching them such poor etiquette from the get go.

Larry
 
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Easy lesson

I had a friend/acquaintance visit once in his RV7A. He pulled up in front of my open hangar, swung around tail pointed directly into the hangar and did his rather lengthy shut down checklist while never looking outside to see me frantically waving to get his attention.
My fix was to put my push broom in his hand the second he stepped down of the step and say, you dirtied it up, you clean it. He had absolutely no idea what I was talking about until I pointed out the mess in the hangar and told him I was dead serious and that pilots just don’t pull that kind of stupid stunt. We are still acquainted..
Tact, you bet.
 
I don't blame the students. It's the instructors that could care less about inconveniencing someone else. However, it is a shame that they are teaching them such poor etiquette from the get go.

I hate to paint all instructors with a wide brush, but, I've seen it too.

At Hooks airport in Houston there's a north ramp that does double duty as both a runup and parking area. I had small glitch on my RV at runup, so was in a corner of the ramp area with top cowling off to take a look at something. Then, along comes a C-152 with student and CFI to do their runup; they had gobs of open space to park and do their thing, but where'd they stop? Right in front of me as if I and my RV were invisible... while they did their lengthy checklist I waggled their elevators and thumped on the horizontal stab to get their attention. Nothing, no response. Then, up comes the power for a mag check, blowing right on my RV parked 25 feet behind... so, I banged on the CFI's side window, then yanked his door open to yell at them to knock that cr@p off and move their airplane! Methinks I startled them just a tad. But, the fact that I had to yell at the CFI to pull his head out of his butt and look around, have just a wee bit of situational awareness... that was just mind boggling.
 
Been flying for over 50 years and an airport owner for 27 years.

Believe me, I could tell you stories all night!
 
There's a flip-side to the prop-blast etiquette issue: I pulled in to the self-serve fuel station at Big Bear (L35) a few months ago and while I'm fueling my RV, another pilot drives in behind me and parks 5 feet behind my plane. I literally coundn't believe it. Its like this guy was inviting me to prop blast his plane!

Now I feel like I have to pull my plane forward to protect this numbskull and be "courteous". So I start pulling my plane out and what does this idiot do? He starts pulling his plane forward at the same pace I was moving!

I ended up turning my plane slightly just to avoid blasting him too much and looking like the bad guy. Sometimes people put us in the toughest spots...

-Marc
 
I ended up turning my plane slightly just to avoid blasting him too much and looking like the bad guy. Sometimes people put us in the toughest spots...

-Marc

i never start my airplane at the pump. Always pull it away and angle it so if anyone pulls up to the pumps while I am starting, I am not blocking them or prop washing them. Less than 10% of others do the same. Of coarse some of the planes are to big to easily move so I avoid being directly behind them at the pump but park off to the side. Anticipating what others will do helps avoid some of the prop wash issues.
 
Reminds me of an incident that happened at my local airport back in the day. The big hangar used for maintenance also had a paint shop in the back and a freshly painted aircraft was being pulled out to set in the sun. A twin pulled up, turn turn the tail to the open hangar, (and newly painted airplane) and did an engine run-up. Log story short, maintenance hangar full of trash, dirt and grass, newly painted aircraft had same same in the paint. Bottom line, a line truck parked in front of the twin, and a report to FAA resulted in one of those multiple 30 day suspensions, and a large insurance settlement. Dan from Reno
 
Not to mention the guy behind you in the alley that is trying to conform to the goal of this thread who will get propwashed by you while avoiding do the same to others.
Well, to be fair, getting propwashed from directly head on is much less of a problem than from the rear or side, where the propwash can get your control surfaces fluttering or banging against the stops. Your plane is at least designed to take wind from the front.

I don't think many people complain about being propwashed when waiting third in line on the taxiway for takeoff... Mind you, I tend to turn 30 degrees off-axis if i'm left sitting in that position... Both for propwash and for visibility up and down the taxiway.

Pulling your plane out into the alley and then doing your pre-flight, oil top-up, check ATIS, etc. is just rude. Do it in your tiedown, then pull out, start up, and start rolling.
 
It never ends!

Ugh,
So I am doing a runup at the runway entrance and the power line guys with a "Little Bird" turbine helicopter decide that they should air taxi from their hangar to the fuel pumps OVER me. Fortunately I was holding the stick as if I wasn't there very well would have been control surface damage WTF?!

I did speak with their maintenance guys and asked them to mention it to the hotshot pilot...
 
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