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RV-8 Zam

ZAM

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This is my first (or nearly so) post of what I imagine to be many. Here's a list of the progress made so far on my project:
1. Mission decision: I wanted airplane that's reasonably fast cruise for "short" hops, 2 place, room for at least an overnight bag. Also important...I want to go upside down again. Something in which I'd be comfortable doing proficient gentlemanly aerobatics, but has a bit of a safety margin for "marginally" proficient gentlemanly aerobatics. After narrowing it down between the -8 and the -14, and after some hands on and discussion, the wife OK'd either. After specifically ensuring that the "tandem" design didn't bother her in the least, I chose the -8...simply because I was more excited about the -8.
2. I filled out a form, spoke with Barb at Van's, wrote a check, was found worthy (my check cleared) and placed on the waitlist for a QB kit.
3. I'm building the empennage this February at Synergy South. I'm unsure to what extent I'll build the rest at Synergy, but I'm confident I'll get a good feel for much of the tooling, pace, process, technique, etc that will be required...less initial head scratching and more initial doing.

That's it to date.

First question: I assume that taking delivery of a new kit or finding a barely second-hand RV-8 QB kit more quickly than the current 8 month lead is unlikely...? Life-wise and job-wise, I could put in A LOT of building over the next 12 months...if I had the kit.

Next Step: Finish researching and make the decisions/orders that will cause any significant delay once my wing/fuse kits are delivered.

Thanks to VAF for the site and community. I've learned a lot just lurking!
 
Mission Statement refined

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Mission: Build an airplane that will comfortably transport two people and their overnight bags on flights up to 4 hours, in IMC/MVFR/Night conditions. When being AT the destination is the goal, the aircraft should cruise as fast as possible, otherwise the aircraft should maximize opportunities to simply enjoy flying while enroute from A to B (or from A to A). The aircraft, once completed, should allow the possibility of a happy, long retirement. The aircraft should be of a tandem design, and the model number shall end in ‘8’ and start with ‘RV-’.

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Producing and trying to clarify the mission statement has been a good exercise for me. Nerdy and overkill and anal...yes. But good also. It’s been a productive way for me to be realistic about what I want to build, why, and how. Also, there is a wait list for Van’s kits, so it's not like I'll be pounding rivets soon (Not for reals anyway). So, there are some major decisions yet to be made, and I hope to use this statement and any comments as a checklist to think through some of those big decisions now to cut down on stalls, outright guesses and errors later.

Any good lawyer could use most of the above statements to justify building the next space shuttle, or a glorified ultralight. So, here’s what this means to me at the moment, starting with the first and last bold highlighted theme.




Build an airplane… I want to build an airplane. Basic, but there are RV fans that just want an RV...so I start here. I don’t need to turn every nut or crunch the wind tunnel data...but I want to be part of the construction. I want to be part of the design. If the QB kit leaves me yearning for more “me go build now!!” moments...the bugs will have been worked out of the RV-15 kits when my fly off is done.

shall end in ‘8’ and start with ‘RV-’.” A truly unbiased examination would have begun with an open mind about all the aircraft kits available. I have liked the RV-8 from the get-go. Like many, I’ve been courting the experimental idea for years. I’ve had the RV-8 plans thumbdrive for...three years now? I love the tandem seats. For me, they are more comfortable, and the wife is fine with it. Although biased toward the -8, I invite alternative ideas. The decision to build a Van’s kit is due to research that led me to view Van’s product, community and support as the best out there in terms of what a first time builder needs in order to finish a kit.
 
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3. I'm building the empennage this February at Synergy South. I'm unsure to what extent I'll build the rest at Synergy, but I'm confident I'll get a good feel for much of the tooling, pace, process, technique, etc that will be required...less initial head scratching and more initial doing.

...
I did something similar with a different company when I built my tail kit and it was an excellent experience for me. I learned a lot of valuable skills, and came away with the confidence to handle the metal parts of the build. Doing it again, I'd also find something for fiberglass fabrication. I finally found some videos, and my fiberglass hero, DanH.

I'm flying and I can tell you it's really a fun aircraft. Build it like Van's recommends and you'll have an excellent machine.
 
Really cool start to this build, with the detailed mission statement. I'm really looking forward to a detailed report with photos from the Synergy empennage build.
 
I did something similar with a different company when I built my tail kit and it was an excellent experience for me. I learned a lot of valuable skills, and came away with the confidence to handle the metal parts of the build. Doing it again, I'd also find something for fiberglass fabrication. I finally found some videos, and my fiberglass hero, DanH.

I'm flying and I can tell you it's really a fun aircraft. Build it like Van's recommends and you'll have an excellent machine.

Congrats on your build Mickey. Looks great! I just looked through your build pages...very nice. Super helpful.
 
Really cool start to this build, with the detailed mission statement. I'm really looking forward to a detailed report with photos from the Synergy empennage build.

Thanks David. The plan is to document heavily, and offer it up for help/criticism/education here. I look forward to getting my hands dirty.
 
Mission definition: Comfortable

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Mission: Build an airplane that will comfortably transport two people and their overnight bags on flights up to 4 hours, in IMC/MVFR/Night conditions. When being AT the destination is the goal, the aircraft should cruise as fast as possible, otherwise the aircraft should maximize opportunities to simply enjoy flying while enroute from A to B (or from A to A). The aircraft, once completed, should allow the possibility of a happy, long retirement. The aircraft should be of a tandem design, and the model number shall end in ‘8’ and start with ‘RV-’.

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"Comfortably..." I assume that a directly proportional relationship will exist as to the aircraft’s overall comfort and the overall flight time/sorties. A successful design will therefore create a condition that, in general, results in the least amount of time between the end of one sortie, and being physically, mentally and economically ready for the next sortie.

Note: “comfort” includes, but shall not be limited to: physical comfort (seats, environmentals), mental/Psychological/fatigue comforts (redundant systems, autopilot) and other less obvious issues (expensive nearby hanger vs distant but much cheaper hanger). See related notes on “long happy retirement” and “IFR..” equipment specifications.
 
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Mission: Overnight bags

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Mission: Build an airplane that will comfortably transport two people and their overnight bags on flights up to 4 hours, in IMC/MVFR/Night conditions. When being AT the destination is the goal, the aircraft should cruise as fast as possible, otherwise the aircraft should maximize opportunities to simply enjoy flying while enroute from A to B (or from A to A). The aircraft, once completed, should allow the possibility of a happy, long retirement. The aircraft should be of a tandem design, and the model number shall end in ‘8’ and start with ‘RV-’.

==============================


Overnight bags ...literally, overnight bags. Toiletry kits, enough clothing to not feel disgusting if we don’t wanna do laundry on the 2nd night, plus critical spares and safety items as the mission may require. When/If more stuff is needed on the trip, we assume that WalMart, FedEx, and the Quickie Mart will take care of the rest. (Yes, the spouse agrees with this specification.)
 
Mission...Range

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Mission: Build an airplane that will comfortably transport two people and their overnight bags on flights up to 4 hours, in IMC/MVFR/Night conditions. When being AT the destination is the goal, the aircraft should cruise as fast as possible, otherwise the aircraft should maximize opportunities to simply enjoy flying while enroute from A to B (or from A to A). The aircraft, once completed, should allow the possibility of a happy, long retirement. The aircraft should be of a tandem design, and the model number shall end in ‘8’ and start with ‘RV-’.

==============================




Up to 4 hours... There is no real rhyme or reason to this specification...I just figured the aircraft legs should take maximum advantage of the money I spent getting a high cruise speed, yet not waste money on range that my bladder won't allow.
 
Range/

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Up to 4 hours... There is no real rhyme or reason to this specification...I just figured the aircraft legs should take maximum advantage of the money I spent getting a high cruise speed, yet not waste money on range that my bladder won't allow.
If you look at some of the recent posts by DanH and others that are displaying their airspeed/altitude/and fuel burn, I think you should be able to get 4 hours out of the standard tanks.

https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?p=1311286

https://vansairforce.net/community/showpost.php?p=1311167&postcount=301

These are some really nice aircraft!
 
RV-8 engine options

I’m feeling the need to get an engine ordered for the RV8, and keep coming back to to an IO360, or an IO370. Based on what I’ve read and limited experience (I’ve not flown an 8 with a 390 or angle valve), this engine fits into the weight/power/mission equation. I’m not kidding myself...either engine will be awesome...after I’ve made the call. Areas I’d love to get thoughts on:

1. Lower or higher compression pistons. I’m not totally doomsday about 100LL, but for “only” 8 or so extra HP maybe I’ll compromise...

2. At least a few sources say porting and polishing is the cheapest/lightest HP you can buy?

3. One Lightspeed and one yet TBD ignition system, and mechanical injection. I ‘want’ EFI and EI, but I’m leery of needlessly overcomplicating matters.

4. The motor will swing a CS prop. I’m leaning heavily toward composite due to weight and performance and lack of financial sense. This opens up a new ‘problems’ to look into... Counter Weighted Crank or not vs HP and prop limitations.

Thanks for any educational links, sources and comments.
 
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Overnight bags ...literally, overnight bags. Toiletry kits, enough clothing to not feel disgusting if we don’t wanna do laundry on the 2nd night, plus critical spares and safety items as the mission may require. When/If more stuff is needed on the trip, we assume that WalMart, FedEx, and the Quickie Mart will take care of the rest. (Yes, the spouse agrees with this specification.)

Don’t underestimate the “cargo” room you’re going to have. 50 lbs in the forward baggage compartment and 75 lbs in the aft is nothing to scoff at. We’ve made multiple week long trips with no need to FedEx or Quickie Mart anything. Plenty of room to bring back souvenirs too. You’re going to be surprised how much you can carry.
 
And the kitchen sink...

That’s good confirmation Carlos, thanks. The aft “bin” is relatively spacious, but I’ve not seen a forward bin without a smoke system in it, which made it look a bit smallish. (I’ll probably plumb for smoke, but not initially install it.)
Don’t underestimate the “cargo” room you’re going to have. 50 lbs in the forward baggage compartment and 75 lbs in the aft is nothing to scoff at. We’ve made multiple week long trips with no need to FedEx or Quickie Mart anything. Plenty of room to bring back souvenirs too. You’re going to be surprised how much you can carry.
 
That’s good confirmation Carlos, thanks. The aft “bin” is relatively spacious, but I’ve not seen a forward bin without a smoke system in it, which made it look a bit smallish. (I’ll probably plumb for smoke, but not initially install it.)

I plumbed for smoke but have yet to install it. Not ideal with an independent 4-stack exhaust system. Some folks make the smoke tank easily removable with quick disconnects. I did place the main and emergency electrical busses along with the Plasma III ignition system in the forward deep well. Made a cover for it so the baggage compartment is flush. Either way, my spouse and I have made week long trips to Mackinaw, the Bahamas, TX, and a few other places with plenty of room. Heck we even took a blender with us to the Bahamas. Reached the weight limit before we reached the volume limit. Fly rod, no problem. Just make sure you make the rear seat very comfortable for your spousal unit. Heated seats with comfort foam, big air vent, plug for iPad inflight movies, good seal on the aft canopy, you get the picture.
 
Mission capable RV

I plumbed for smoke but have yet to install it. Not ideal with an independent 4-stack exhaust system. Some folks make the smoke tank easily removable with quick disconnects. I did place the main and emergency electrical busses along with the Plasma III ignition system in the forward deep well. Made a cover for it so the baggage compartment is flush. Either way, my spouse and I have made week long trips to Mackinaw, the Bahamas, TX, and a few other places with plenty of room. Heck we even took a blender with us to the Bahamas. Reached the weight limit before we reached the volume limit. Fly rod, no problem. Just make sure you make the rear seat very comfortable for your spousal unit. Heated seats with comfort foam, big air vent, plug for iPad inflight movies, good seal on the aft canopy, you get the picture.

“blender with us to the Bahamas “...It sounds like “La Otra Chica” and “La Chica Principal” have the right priorities. Great reminder not to skimp on the back seat. I’m planning heated seats and the comfiest Oregon, Classic, etc can supply. “Big air vent” I haven’t researched yet, but can say with limited experience that the back seats I’ve ridden where not overly vented.

Since this is my post, I guess thread creep is ok...mind telling me your general thoughts and experience with Lightspeed and Plasma 3 (vs II)? What’s the other ignition? If it’s in a build log site, point me to it please.
 
“blender with us to the Bahamas “...It sounds like “La Otra Chica” and “La Chica Principal” have the right priorities. Great reminder not to skimp on the back seat. I’m planning heated seats and the comfiest Oregon, Classic, etc can supply. “Big air vent” I haven’t researched yet, but can say with limited experience that the back seats I’ve ridden where not overly vented.

Since this is my post, I guess thread creep is ok...mind telling me your general thoughts and experience with Lightspeed and Plasma 3 (vs II)? What’s the other ignition? If it’s in a build log site, point me to it please.

The plastic air vents and vent tubing that Vans shipped with their kits are less than adequate IMHO. I replaced them with 2" Aveo aluminum vents and used 2" SCAT tubing instead of the thin black tubing that Vans supplied. The larger vents are nice to have in hot conditions like we see in middle TN during the summer months. These vents also close off completely with zero airflow that makes it nice for winter flying. If La Chica is not happy, ain't nobody happy :D

When I ordered my Mattituck IO360 from their Long Island factory (now reincarnated in AL as Continental Titan) they offered the option of having a split ignition system with a Lightspeed Plasma III on the right and an impulse Slick mag on the left. Extremely happy with that combination for four years until Slick came out with a service bulletin a couple of years ago requiring a change to the plastic distributor gear. The engine had 350 hours on it at the time, coming up on the 500 hour mandatory mag inspection, so I decided to replace the impulse mag with an E-mag which for the last 100+ hours has been bulletproof. I have been extremely happy with the Plasma III, with zero issues. One of the advantages of these electronic ignition modules is the capability to run automotive plugs instead of aviation plugs. A high end iridium plug is usually around $5 while an "aviation" plug runs around $85. Timing is also much easier with electronic ignition systems and varies based on MAP and RPM whereas a magneto is mostly fixed timing. Another big plus was a significant weight savings (around 3 pounds if I remember correctly) when the magneto was replaced with the E-mag. I like the form factor of the E-mag better than the Plasma III simply because everything is self contained in the unit. The Plasma units have a separate control box, not a big issue, just different.

Oregon Aero makes some very nice seats but when you get to that point take a look at Flight Line Interiors (Vans Airforce advertiser). They built up two of the most comfortable seats I've ever had. At the time they did not provide seat heaters but had no problem installing the ones I purchased from FlyBoys during the seat buildup. They also provide everything from side panel covers, to stick boot covers and aileron pushrod boots. At the time I ordered these, the price point was roughly 50% less than Oregon Aero.

Had my build site on KitLogPro back when I had a Windows computer. When I transferred everything to a Mac even though I was running Parallels, I was never able to upload my build log.
 
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