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RV-9A Andy C. Kalamazoo, Mi

KazooRV-9A

Well Known Member
Patron
Hello and just beginning a thread on an RV-9A project that I am working on in Kalamazoo Mi.

I found this plane not far from me, it was an unfinished kit that another builder began in 2000, the build number is 90072. The picture is the project as I found it, in a Garage about 8 miles from my home.

This is my first Van's build and I am excited with the project! I currently fly a 1946 Cessna 120 that I restored over the last 3-1/2 years.

Looking forward to posting updates as we go,

Andy C.
KazooRV-9A


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Congrats! The more time I spend with my project, the more I seem to enjoy it. Hope you will find the same. Look forward to updates.

Lars
 
Great choice and you will love flying it.

Check out my build log link and don't be shy about asking questions as you progress through the build.
 
Since I've just learned how to post URL links to pictures from Google photo's, here's some more of the items I got with the project.

In basic, there were assembled slow build empennage and wings, and a QB Fuse that had some additional work done to it. Also, there is a rebuildable O-320, and the finishing kit. And about the best part, a panel from Aerotronics with GR Sport display.

Aside from those, I found seats, an exhaust, autopilot and numerous other items.

There was a downside though, in that the wings and empennage are unairworthy.... We pretty much suspected this going into the project, and it's hard to understand how a builder goes this far with such poor assembly, but it was what we found. I didn't get a chance to meet the man, he passed away and never completed his project. I donated the empennage to the Kalamazoo Air zoo for young high school age students there to practice with, and will also do so with the wings at a later date. I've since found other wings and another empennage.

Similarly with the fuse, I had to sort of un-do what extra had been done on it, and am now moving forward again with that portion.

So I'm having a great time working on this kit, which is alot different than the restoration work I did on the C120.

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So here is how it sits today in my shop. We've been working on the baggage area floor and the seatbacks, as well as the electric flap drive. I have new top skins that will go in later and as I mentioned, I had found a complete Empennage that was assembled, and a set of wings with one done except for the top and bottom skins, and the other in the crate.

A side story, I found the empennage for sale down in Florida near my mothers house in Port Orange, and we brought it back to Michigan. Turns out you can get an entire assembled RV-9 empennage, suitcases, and a wife in a Buick Regal!

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Welcome to the RV world Andy! Looking forward to seeing the progress.

John von Linsowe
Hadley, Michigan
 
Andy,
Good luck with the project. Good to have another project going in MI

Gary Kremers
RV10
Highlander

Zeeland, MI

Z98
 
Very nice! All primed inside and there is a motor already. Spring 2018 is perfect time to call a DAR. Congratulations Andy!
 
I must say, Andy, that wing riveting is some of the ugliest I have seen. But no matter, as long as you knew it going in. 😊

Welcome aboard VAF and the RV-9/9A bunch!!!!
 
Funny

I bought a 9a nearing two years ago in grand haven started back in 2000
I flew up and looked it over with another ia AP sn 90024 I've converted to a 9.
Hoping you didn't give a lot for it as I must agree the riveting looks bad as not likely airworth.
Keep us posted
 
Best of luck with the build! I'm up in Grand Haven and building a 9A as well (rather slowly). Hope to see you around.

Good Luck,
Ethan
 
Well we've been busy doing a few more items to the plane. And bought a couple more things for the shop. I seem to always need more table top space, so I headed to the local Harbor Frt and bought an x-frame stand. Also bought a cart to wheel tools to the work area. Items for ease of manufacture.

And while not an RV, here's a couple of pictures of the C120 I restored and learned to fly. I didn't have my PPL when I started the project, just the voices in my head that said, "Restore an airplane, learn to fly". We did just that and have enjoyed the challenge ever since! https://www.cessna120-140.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=11526

AC

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look forward to following your thread... leaning hard on the 9A to start soon..

Great find!! did i see a Michigan plate with go Buck Eyes!!
 
Yes, I'm a Buckeye transplanted to Mi for the last 30 years. I notice that people up here seem to cheer at the wrong times during our big game....

Somehow the C120 even turned out Scarlet and gray. My friend Victor G. from the type club and I, lined up the planes one day preparing for the annual rivalry. What kind of crazy person, paints their plane in school colors anyway??

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Does anyone have an idea as to why I can't insert an image from Google photo's?
It worked fine on the previous posts I've made here, but now when I paste in the URL address, it doesn't upload the single picture I'm wanting to place in the thread. It uploads a link to all the pictures in that file I think I saw.
I just want to upload a single picture....
Must have some sharing option wrong.
It was working fine up until this time that I'm trying to post.
Any thoughts?
Thank you,

Andy C.
 
Back on now with a different photosharing site. Google photo's quit working to upload pictures.

We fabricated an engine stand for the O-320 we're about to start overhauling. And the Fuse is in the paint booth for some preliminary interior painting.

IMG_27322_zpsmehnt5yc.jpg


IMG_27581_zpsqvrgtudo.jpg
 
I must say, Andy, that wing riveting is some of the ugliest I have seen...
Can you explain what's wrong with it?

I'm pretty sure I can see what's wrong (skin damage etc) but a full rundown from those in the know would be instructive!

I wonder if the guy even knew that he had to deburr the rivet holes after he drilled them... :eek:
 
Rob I wish I could tell you what had gone so wrong with the wings and empennage that the original builder had worked. Many many rivets were over-bucked or essentially hammered into the skins. Numerous rivets were smiled or bent over. Holes were drilled oversize and ragged. The fuel tanks were unusable and other assemblies were unairworthy.
I knew nothing of the original project owner, save that he was older and had been in the local EAA chapter. He passed away which is how I came to obtain the project.
Maybe he lost focus on things, or was in such failing health that he couldn't manage the tools. Maybe he had no help.....
We'll take it from here and make him proud, hope he's watching!
A.
 
Great job on the 120 it looks amazing.

And looking at the second set of skins its amazing how much better the workmanship was......
 
Last night we masked the fuselage to do some interior painting.
The booth is just one bay of my shop, that has Visqueen that I roll down and an exhaust fan.
Even though it's cold out up here in southwest Mi, we can shoot paint for this portion of the project. I run a 150,000 btu kerosene heater while we're spraying, and things come out just fine. Good friend, painter Greg H. will do the spray work here, he is a pilot, owns a body shop, and paints every day. You can't beat a man at his trade! (I paint things that don't matter....)

IMG_2782_zpsfj0sqdvj.jpg


IMG_2785_zpsdtg7emos.jpg


IMG_2787_zps1vkz6o7r.jpg


IMG_2784_zps83fjkqyo.jpg


IMG_2786_zpsvcuzbruc.jpg
 
Hey hold off on the engine O/H until you completely mock up the cowl and all the engine accessories including exhaust. that will save a lot of dust and scratches on that new engine. Just my thought. Keep in touch Jeff
 
Completed a good portion of the interior painting this past weekend. Parts were primed, sealed and color coated, came out great. Had to use low temp reducer, but painter Greg does this every day.
Now we can continue more of the fuselage assy!

This was the primer stage

IMG_2788_zpszv7zmoy5.jpg


In the paint booth, you can see the exhaust fan in the background

IMG_2793_zpst2k3wbrk.jpg


Heater/Poor man's make-up air system! It was about 35 Deg F outside Saturday.

IMG_2791_zps2yfuf30p.jpg


Completed initial paintwork, ready for continued assy.

IMG_2798_zps7j1b96xw.jpg
 
This past weekend we started into an exciting phase for the build, the overhaul of the O-320-D3G engine! The core engine had come along with the entire project purchase, and I've been patiently waiting to do the teardown to see what we have.

It was a rare January thaw up here in SW Michigan, the thermometer topped 60 degrees last Saturday and we even opened the shop doors for a bit to let some of the sunshine and outside environment in. You can get cabin fever up here this time of year and this was a day to ward that off. RV building it turns out, is a great cure for cabin fever.

With the help of our local EAA Chapter 221 Tech Advisor, we tackled the complete disassy of the engine. Things look pretty good overall, no visually severe corrosion or damage, however as always, the NDT and other checks at the repair stations will tell the final tale on what we have.

For now it looks optimistic that we have a good core, I'm doubling my knowledge of this Lycoming powerplant and how to orchestrate its overhaul, every day. Lots of good advice coming in.

Just have to be brave when the repair invoices show up! I'm fastening my seatbelt...

Andy C.

Here's our starting point
IMG_2810_zpsg9bdijoh.jpg


Pistons and Cyls removed
IMG_2825_zpsfqvcjlsw.jpg


The case
IMG_2824_zpsy6l4xolw.jpg


Parts to be organized
IMG_2826_zpsjay8mxmq.jpg


And the work area. It took another few hours to organize the parts and bag things up. Soon we'll be sending parts off for component level overhauls!
IMG_2822_zpslhxkq1ma.jpg
 
Looks like a great engine. The pistons look really good, no evidence of harsh blow by on the piston skirts. The inside of the rear case,crank case and the rocker box areas of the cylinders indicate the engine is either very low time or has had frequent oil changes.
 
Some evenings are a riot on this project, more head scratching than a Laurel and Hardy movie.
I bought another set of wings to replace the un-airworthy ones that came with the project, and one of those wings was nearly complete and the other in the crate. So we've been working on the one we have to fully build and it was pretty funny trying to figure out where the ribs go on the right wing. The left wing is easy, looks like the drawing, but you have to figure out that the right wing is mirrored. We couldn't exactly find that tidbit in the written instructions. it's probably there somewhere.
Three reasonably intelligent men trying to figure out where these aluminum puzzle pieces go. You experienced builders would have been laughing at us! (as was the wife, all parts look alike to her she says)
I'm pretty sure you could build these planes in a fraction of the time, but for the time spent wondering what the heck..
Onward through the storm....!

IMG_2895_zpslpjgnvza.jpg
 
Hi Andy,
Once you put the top skin on, you'll know if the rib flanges are set the right direction.
 
Some more work this past weekend. Riveted the ribs to the spars on the right wing, and put the top skins on for match drilling. Lots of holes I'm starting to realize! I find I will need more silver Cleco's....

Wife made some RV builder brownie's for the group of us, which powered us through the day. (there's a few of the local EAA Chapter members that I suspect like to escape Saturday honey-do's, to work on an RV)

Right wing in the holding jig:

IMG_2907_zps5iztwboi.jpg


Top Skins in place for drilling:

IMG_2908_zpsqkt2huqm.jpg


Then also more work on the top turtledeck. Finished match drilling at some new J-Stringers I had to re-make. Now just need to debur and dimple and the top skins can ne riveted later on. Wife says it looks like a porcupine. Turtles, porcupines, what other animals are in this plane she asks.

IMG_2905_zpsfwlk9jis.jpg


IMG_2906_zpsbmw19uog.jpg


Here's the setup we made for dimpling, works OK.

IMG_2909_zpspm3avhsk.jpg


Here's the crank from the 0320-D3G that we're preliminarily inspecting before sending out for full checks. People seem to have all kinds of trepidations about these hollow cranks, we're hoping that it's still serviceable. Advice to me has been, "If you don't have a crank, you don't have an engine". We'll see what happens.

IMG_2911_zpszb98l6xl.jpg
 
Last weekend was a good one for RV building. Snowed all day here in Kalamazoo and after having about a week of 50-60 degree weather, it looked like the middle of winter again. So turned up the oil burner in the shop and set to some building, with help from a couple of guys who were surely escaping honey-do's back home.

The goal was to do something that would provide some measure of visual progress. So the fuselage was targeted and we managed to:

Install the landing gear mounts
Installed the flap drive
Temporarily installed the fuel selector valve
Installed the Aux fuel pump
Moved the brake reservoir to the right for dual setup
Bent/formed the vent lines
Began to form the fuel lines

I'm beginning to realize that the hard part is keeping parts on the plane. Seems like everything has to come back off 3 times before they stay on for good!

Gear mounts and fuel valve

IMG_2942_zpsi0kju6fu.jpg


Flap drive. I couldn't resist hooking up a battery and actuating the drive, and on the first transit it unscrewed from the rod end and I had to pull the actuator back out and screw it back in. it isn't lockwired yet. (Don't tell me you haven't done it!)

IMG_2941_zps9s7ifzp4.jpg


Vent lines.

IMG_2943_zpsmkv25rw4.jpg


Aux pump and main line to selector valve

IMG_2944_zpsmihkbopv.jpg


Back to the right wing, we continued with the assembly. We had placed the outer leading edge on, and were on to the fuel tank assy. We have the fuel tank assembled to the point of back drilling the attach brackets, it was a good afternoon of work.

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And then came Monday and I'm back at work toiling, and a text comes in from Annie, would I like to fly with her after work in her beautiful RV-9A! I had met Annie across the T-hangers at KBTL (where I keep my C120), and she had bought the 9A last summer. She's a CFI and accomplished pilot, and this was my first chance to fly a 9A.
What a thrill, this is going to be quite something!

N747RT
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Transition lesson #1
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And of course,,, The Grin

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Repeat offender starter plan ..?

"I'm beginning to realize that the hard part is keeping parts on the plane. Seems like everything has to come back off 3 times before they stay on for good! " ;)

That's the first step in the 'repeat offender introductory plan' ... make it twice, then install and remove it 3 times. Then when you finish and get the Special Airworthiness you find that you don't have enough screws to assembly everything at the same time.

Start making that list of SB's early and do them as you go, or you get a 4th chance to remove and replace when finished.

Good looking progress. Keep in mind that all the fasteners under the forward skin will probably need to be maintained from the inverted position (on your back upside down) so make them easier to manipulate from that perspective (ask me how I know).

That vent line may be in the way of the bucking bar along the top Adel clamp area, for example. Keep the end in view.:cool:
 
Moving onward to the fuel tank assembly! Was looking forward to the wet riveting that I've read so many nice builder reports about.

All in all not that tough though. The worst part so far, is my stupid Harbor Freight digital scale, it turns off automatically in about 10 seconds.... I guess they figure that you can weigh a letter in that amount of time. So have to work around that little nuisance.

So yea, it's messy and you have to clean tools up constantly, and the sealant is sticky, but this isn't the hardest job I've done so far on this project.

Note that if your glove tears and you get the fuel tank sealant on your thumb, and it turns sort of black locally, it does wear off no problem (in about a week).

Andy C.

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Nice going. Have you run out of clean clecos yet? By the way, Proseal comes off the skin with rubbing alcohol really easy and doesn't irritate the skin (at least not my skin).

Speaking of adventures with harbor freight: I tried to clean Proseal off clecos using a HF ultrasonic cleaner. It works great, but beware that acetone will melt its plastic bits. I ran it with acetone. Came back a few hours later and found the plastic lid had dissolved and melted the unit shut. Also my clecos were coated in melted plastic goo. I pried off and discarded the lid, replaced the goo with with fresh acetone, and cleaned the clecos again. That got most of the plastic goo off. Ironically, cured proseal was still stuck to the clecos.
 
I had the same problem with the resetting scale, build a simple 10:1 balance. It is extremely accurate and easy to use.
 
Fay Sealing

Andy, have you heard of the "fay sealing" method of doing your tanks? I learned about it after doing my first tank, and tried it on my 2nd tank, so I've done it both ways. I would HEARTILY recommend the fay sealing method. It's much less messy, easy to do, and the results are outstanding.

Basically, you proseal and cleco the parts together. Use a cleco in every hole. Then wait to do the riveting until the next day or two. I liked it best when the proseal was rubbery firm. Not solidly cured, but can still be pushed around a bit.

Here are a couple links. The first one is my own log on my website, with my experience and lots of pictures.

Fay Sealing my Tanks

Here's an excellent thread right here on VAF, talking more about it:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=7602

Hope this helps. Good luck!
 
Andy, have you heard of the "fay sealing" method of doing your tanks? I learned about it after doing my first tank, and tried it on my 2nd tank, so I've done it both ways. I would HEARTILY recommend the fay sealing method. It's much less messy, easy to do, and the results are outstanding.

Basically, you proseal and cleco the parts together. Use a cleco in every hole. Then wait to do the riveting until the next day or two. I liked it best when the proseal was rubbery firm. Not solidly cured, but can still be pushed around a bit.

Here are a couple links. The first one is my own log on my website, with my experience and lots of pictures.

Fay Sealing my Tanks

Here's an excellent thread right here on VAF, talking more about it:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=7602

Hope this helps. Good luck!

Please reconsider letting sealant partially cure before riveting. Good discussion of riveting within the sealant work life:
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=413564

A good quote from that:
WARNING.
IF structure is assembled 'wet with [fay/fastener] sealant' that is poorly applied, IE: applied too thick for adequate settling/squeeze-out; or too viscous for efficient squeeze-out; or the sealant begins to transition to a semi-solid before full squeeze-out can occur; etc... and there are built-in gaps exceeding 0.002-inch 'shimmed with rubber'... then the degradation in static-strength/stiffness and fatigue durability can be dramatic! Some researchers have claimed up-to 90% knockdown is possible [~10% residual strength/stiffness and/or fatigue durability]. This can also occur when fasteners holes are not mate-drilled when the structure is ?dry?? the drilling/reaming process being ?too intense? to integrate into the assembly process with ?wet-curing-sealant?.
 
Back to work on the RV-9A project here in wintry Kalamazoo Mi. Took a bit of a break from building, but managed to retire in the meantime so the project is taking a decided leap forward.

Ill be dropping off all my engine parts that I've been gathering and refurbing, to Poplar Grove Airmotive for assy and run-in. Great shop up there in Ill.

And have been working on the right fuel tank, I think I'm done with the Pro-seal work. Best thing was the use of a Semco potting gun, vs. squeezing pro-seal out of a baggie!

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So it's been really cold up here in Michigan lately, and the shop's been pretty chilly, and I don't heat it when I'm not out working on the RV.
So after 4 days or so since closing up the right fuel tank, I notice that the Proseal sealant isn't curing very well.
...So I figure that bringing it into the warm house is probably a good plan and the heated mattress pad seems like an even better idea!
(Hope the wife doesn't mind sleeping on the couch for a few nights...)

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Working on the right wing top skins. The Blue stuff has been on the skins for years, so was really tough to remove. One of the local EAA members who has been helping me, saw this broom trick for removing the protective film. Gives you leverage over it.
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And just assembly work on the outer leading edge. Lots of holes to final drill, debur, and dimple. Ready to rivet here.

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Continued working on the right wing leading edge. Had a couple of days last week in the upper 50's here in SW Michigan, worked with the shop door open for awhile!
Leading edge now on, finally something permanently installed!

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I have a question... I'm not a builder. I see the blue protective film on the skins and wonder how you cut the film to expose the bare aluminum for riveting. Do you use a razor blade, and if so, wouldn't that make a scratch and potential stress riser?
 
As Eric said, use a soldering gun with rounded tip, along a straight edge (I used a 1" wide piece of flat alum). Then peel off where desired. No marks on skin.
I don't have any razor blades in the shop, for the reason you noted.

AC
 
I found using the soldering iron on the plastic worked great. You don't need much pressure at all, and you can polish the tip which will prevent any scratching of the underlying aluminum. I did however, use a wooden yard stick instead of any metal ruler to make the lines. The metal ruler would suck just enough heat out of the tip to no longer melt the plastic. The wooden ruler worked much better.

Also, if you are going to prime your skins, you can run the soldering iron along the overlaps and leave the plastic on as a mask for the places where you want to prime just the underlying area.
 
Finished up riveting the outer leading edge. Then time to pressure test the right fuel tank.
The wife had a bicycle pump, but it seemed to only fit a 1980's Cannondale tire tube,,, so no joy there. But I found my trusty Mastervac and pumped things up sufficiently to soap up all the seams and rivets, and no leaks indicated, Yay!
Installed the tank and now onto riveting the top skins.

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Tank test.

Do your self a favor. Put a half gallon/gallon of av gas in the tanks and let the tank rest horizontally with the rear baffle downward. Put it on the garage floor.
If you have a leak it will most likely come from the rear baffle area. You will see spots on the concrete if it leaks. I pressure tested mine with soap and there was no sign of bubbles. Yet both of my tanks had small leaks discovered when mounted on the plane. I would have saved a lot of time if I put fuel in the tanks when they where not mounted to the wings. The true test.
 
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