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Anyone Try Dynon Pitot With G3X ?

R

rwagner24

Active Member
Hi I pretty much had my mind made up after OSH last year that my RV8 will have a Skyview system in it. I installed a Dynon heated pitot in my left wing. This year at OSH I'm thinking I might like to do a G3X system instead. I asked one Garmin rep if this pitot would work (aoa) with the G3X system and he said no you need our pitot. Another Garmin rep said is should because you have to calibrate it anyway. Just wondering if anyone has already tried this and knows for sure.

Ryan
 
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Hello Ryan,

What I have been telling people who ask this question (and there are a lot of them!) is that we have not tested this combination, so we have no way to say for sure if it will work. However, there should be no harm in trying the AOA calibration in order to determine if this combination will work for you. If you you decide you want to upgrade later, it should be very straightforward to retrofit the GAP 26 pitot/AOA probe and gain the benefit of a tested probe with an excellent heater.

- Matt
 
I have a Dynon pitot with a 10a and have just upgraded to a G3X. I have been to busy learning the system, and avoiding the heat to calibrate the AOA. I guess I will move it up on the priority list to see what happens.
 
It would just be nice to know. Easier to change pitots with the wing upside down on a bench instead of me upside down on a hangar floor
 
I will be trying it soon and will report. I have a Garmin probe on order and will be switching the Dynon one out as soon as I get it but I expect to have the GSU25 installed before I receive the Garmin probe.

I decided to switch to the Garmin one due to the strict standards they used in testing their heated version vs the reports of the Dynon one freezing up.
 
The Dynon probe is probably worth trying if all you are after is good airspeed and AOA indications. If you are planning IFR in freezing conditions the Heated Dynon probe is inadequate, due either to poor draining, or insufficient heating, or both. I will be changing my Dynon and a teammates Heated Dynon probes before winter, with the new Garmin probe.
 
jthocker said:
The Dynon probe is probably worth trying if all you are after is good airspeed and AOA indications. If you are planning IFR in freezing conditions the Heated Dynon probe is inadequate, due either to poor draining, or insufficient heating, or both. I will be changing my Dynon and a teammates Heated Dynon probes before winter, with the new Garmin probe.
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I would not be comfortable planning to fly an experimental aircraft similar to ours IFR in freezing conditions.

With this said, what makes you say the Dynon probe is inadequate? I was in hard IFR and inadvertently ran into freezing conditions. Ice was building up fast on the windshield and the wings. My Dynon heated pitot worked flawlessly. I took me about 5 minutes but I descended out of the freezing conditions without incident except for the pucker factor. I personally am sold on the heated Dynon pitot tube.

:cool:
 
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I agree with you 100%. Will never plan a flight into known icing. It dosent much matter if your pitot is ice free if your plane looks like a snow cone hanging in the trees.
 
GalinHdz said:
With this said, what makes you say the Dynon probe is inadequate?
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Not sure any of us plan to fly into known icing conditions with an RV. Pretty sure Jon was referring to flying when/where it is possible to get into some icing conditions with an RV.

For me it is the pireps of em freezing up here in the archives.

I actually had purchased one to install but saw a couple reports of em freezing up while it was sitting in the box so I decided to sell when Garmin announced their new one.
 
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Brantel said:
For me it is the pireps of em freezing up here in the archives.

I actually had purchased one to install but saw a couple reports of em freezing up while it was sitting in the box so I decided to sell when Garmin announced their new one.
Click to expand...

What do you mean freezing up while it was sitting in the box ?
:cool:
 
Bad grammar on my part....

There were a couple of reports of em freezing up while mine was still new in the box waiting to be installed.

Sorry for the confusion....
 
GalinHdz said:
I would not be comfortable planning to fly an experimental aircraft similar to ours IFR in freezing conditions.

With this said, what makes you say the Dynon probe is inadequate? I was in hard IFR and inadvertently ran into freezing conditions. Ice was building up fast on the windshield and the wings. My Dynon heated pitot worked flawlessly. I took me about 5 minutes but I descended out of the freezing conditions without incident except for the pucker factor. I personally am sold on the heated Dynon pitot tube.

:cool:
Click to expand...
You personally can be sold on your Dynon, but I'm not! The Dynon probe is probably adequate for anti icing of the probe. It is not adequate for flying in rain and then flying in prolonged freezing temps. It has poor draining capabilies that allow water past the heating element where it subsequently freezes and causes loss of airspeed indications!
 
Brantel said:
Bad grammar on my part....

There were a couple of reports of em freezing up while mine was still new in the box waiting to be installed.

Sorry for the confusion....
Click to expand...

OK, now it makes sense.

jthocker said:
You personally can be sold on your Dynon, but I'm not! The Dynon probe is probably adequate for anti icing of the probe. It is not adequate for flying in rain and then flying in prolonged freezing temps. It has poor draining capabilies that allow water past the heating element where it subsequently freezes and causes loss of airspeed indications!
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Well, I don't fly any non FIKI aircraft in humid/prolonged freezing temp conditions but to each his own. The Dynon has proven to me in real life, not just in theory, that it is more than adequate to get me out of inadvertent icing. That is the reason I installed it and why I am sold on it.
:cool:
 
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GalinHdz said:
OK, now it makes sense.



Well, I don't fly any non FIKI aircraft in humid/prolonged freezing temp conditions but to each his own. The Dynon has proven to me in real life, not just in theory, that it is more than adequate to get me out of inadvertent icing. That is the reason I installed it and why I am sold on it.
:cool:
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I hope your ability to accurately predict what the weather is going to do in front of you never let's you down. Lets keep in mind though that your real life testing of a heated pitot flying out of Florida may not be giving it quite the workout as someone flying where ice often exists on the ground. The Dynon Popsicle issue has been discussed in here more than once by those who experienced it. They were considerably north of you though.
 
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It is not adequate for flying in rain and then flying in prolonged freezing temps.
Click to expand...

I think this statement applies to every part of any RV, not just the pitot tube. I would counsel someone who thinks that flying through rain into prolonged freezing temps is a good idea, regardless of what pitot tube or EFIS they have, to bring the idea up with their CFI at their next flight review.
 
ColoRv said:
I hope your ability to accurately predict what the weather is going to do in front of you never let's you down. Lets keep in mind though that your real life testing of a heated pitot flying out of Florida may not be giving it quite the workout as someone flying where ice often exists on the ground. The Dynon Popsicle issue has been discussed in here more than once by those who experienced it. They were considerably north of you though.
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Icing is icing is icing just like a rose is a rose is a rose and it is irrelevant where you experience it. Ice forms at the same conditions in Tahiti as it does in Colorado.
FYI: I just moved to Florida in June of this year.
;)
 
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GalinHdz said:
Icing is icing is icing just like a rose is a rose is a rose and it is irrelevant where you experience it. Ice forms at the same conditions in Tahiti as it does in Colorado.
FYI: I just moved to Florida in June of this year.
;)
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I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Freezing at 30 degrees F is a helluva lot different than freezing at -30 if you're the pitot trying to warm itself into the unfrozen temps. It's a heating element....the delta in temp it is asked to deliver is certainly relevant as is how far back on the pitot is heated and whether or not moisture can escape from the back once melted.

As I recall, one problem was moisture getting into the pitot on the ground, then freezing...and the Dynon doesn't get hot enough to clear down inside the pitot. That can't happen in Florida, but it surely can here.
 
ColoRv said:
I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Freezing at 30 degrees F is a helluva lot different than freezing at -30 if you're the pitot trying to warm itself into the unfrozen temps. It's a heating element....the delta in temp it is asked to deliver is certainly relevant as is how far back on the pitot is heated and whether or not moisture can escape from the back once melted.

As I recall, one problem was moisture getting into the pitot on the ground, then freezing...and the Dynon doesn't get hot enough to clear down inside the pitot. That can't happen in Florida, but it surely can here.
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If icing conditions exist, I don't launch. Unless your airplane is certified FIKI, the tube is to get you OUT of inadvertent icing not to go flying where there might be icing. Icing is not just about temperature as I think you know. Now, if you are talking about launching into -30 weather then we are talking apples and oranges.

My icing happened north of Meridian Mississippi (KMEI) several years ago when the forecasted icing level was way off of the actual. Besides, -30 happens all the time over Florida at high enough altitude but at those altitudes there is rarely enough moisture to form ice.
:cool:
 
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GalinHdz said:
If icing conditions exist, I don't launch. Unless your airplane is certified FIKI, the tube is to get you OUT of inadvertent icing not to go flying where there might be icing. Icing is not just about temperature as I think you know. Now, if you are talking about launching into -30 weather then we are talking apples and oranges.

My icing happened north of Meridian Mississippi (KMEI) several years ago when the forecasted icing level was way off of the actual. Besides, -30 happens all the time over Florida at high enough altitude but at those altitudes there is rarely enough moisture to form ice.
:cool:
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So, once again the Dynon Pitot is a perfect VFR pitot tube.
Last Christmas Eve I flew from Charlotte, NC to Pontiac, Mi. IFR departure, flew thru moderate rain (yellow ADSB) for about an hour. Landed in Pontiac, put plane in heated hangar. Next day Flew home to Cincinnati in VFR conditions mostly, pitot line froze at altitude and gradually lost airspeed indications as I descended. Thankfully my G3X/GX pilot worked flawlessly on the ILS without any airspeed.
I never encountered ICE either day!
 
jthocker said:
So, once again the Dynon Pitot is a perfect VFR pitot tube.
Last Christmas Eve I flew from Charlotte, NC to Pontiac, Mi. IFR departure, flew thru moderate rain (yellow ADSB) for about an hour. Landed in Pontiac, put plane in heated hangar. Next day Flew home to Cincinnati in VFR conditions mostly, pitot line froze at altitude and gradually lost airspeed indications as I descended. Thankfully my G3X/GX pilot worked flawlessly on the ILS without any airspeed.
I never encountered ICE either day!
Click to expand...


Is it possible the blockage happened somewhere else in the system? Could moisture have propagated past the tube? Moisture in the pitot/static system outside of the pitot tube and mast isn't unheard of with Pipers, for example.

Also, I've seen folks happily enter IMC without flipping on pitot heat. Pitot heat, at least on all the piston singles I've flown, has been an anti-ice system and not a de-ice system. If you turn it on after ice has started to form then it may or may not work - it's purpose is to prevent ice from forming not to clear it once it has formed. From the stories I've seen here on VAF, it's not clear that the anti-ice/de-ice difference is well understood but it is an important distinction to be aware of.

I guess what I'm getting at is that anecdotal evidence, while certainly cause for investigation, would not cause me to publicly condemn a product unless there was substantial hard evidence that supported the claim.
 
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ChiefPilot said:
Is it possible the blockage happened somewhere else in the system? Could moisture have propagated past the tube? Moisture in the pitot/static system outside of the pitot tube and mast isn't unheard of with Pipers, for example.

Also, I've seen folks happily enter IMC without flipping on pitot heat. Pitot heat, at least on all the piston singles I've flown, has been an anti-ice system and not a de-ice system. If you turn it on after ice has started to form then it may or may not work - it's purpose is to prevent ice from forming not to clear it once it has formed. From the stories I've seen here on VAF, it's not clear that the anti-ice/de-ice difference is well understood but it is an important distinction to be aware of.

I guess what I'm getting at is that anecdotal evidence, while certainly cause for investigation, would not cause me to publicly condemn a product unless there was substantial hard evidence that supported the claim.
Click to expand...

ChiefPilot said:
I think this statement applies to every part of any RV, not just the pitot tube. I would counsel someone who thinks that flying through rain into prolonged freezing temps is a good idea, regardless of what pitot tube or EFIS they have, to bring the idea up with their CFI at their next flight review.
Click to expand...



Both statements VERY well put.
:cool:
 
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And conversely... anyone tried a Garmin pitot with a Dynon EFIS? That would be more that way I'd be leaning. If I were leaning either way, mind you.
 
DaleB said:
And conversely... anyone tried a Garmin pitot with a Dynon EFIS? That would be more that way I'd be leaning. If I were leaning either way, mind you.
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We personally have not on our own planes, but we do have a customer who has and claims it to be ok (same with the other way around). Since we sell a whole pile of both companies products I'm not necessarily going to take any particular side here, other than to say both folks will likely recommend their own products to interface to their own devices and the resultant support of said installation will likely reflect that....even though it's possible other products would possibly work.

Cheers,
Stein
 
The DYNON Pitot can be used even without a DYNON EFIS system. My DYNON heated Pitot was on my airplane while it still had all steam gauges and, except for no AOA indication, it worked perfectly. It is a completely independent heated pitot and only connects to the DYNON EFIS for AOA information.
:cool:
 
Does the Dynon AoA and the GAP26 work using the same principle?

I think I understand how the Dynon one works, but I can't figure out how the Garmin probe works with the current batch of photos on the interweb.

Any clues?

I'd like to make a decision on the pitot so I can get my project out of neutral and back into top gear!
 
Oh, and also, regulated or unregulated? The Garmin comes in two flavours, but is there a pocket guide to what the differences/advantages are between the two?

If I chose the unregulated one, would I need an extra box somewhere to do the regulating, or is it just let rip and waste amps?
 
Andy_RR said:
Oh, and also, regulated or unregulated? The Garmin comes in two flavours, but is there a pocket guide to what the differences/advantages are between the two?

If I chose the unregulated one, would I need an extra box somewhere to do the regulating, or is it just let rip and waste amps?
Click to expand...

Hello,

You do not need an extra box somewhere if you choose the heated, unregulated version of the GAP 26 (010-010704-10). Like most heated probes, the heater runs full tilt anytime it is turned on.

The heated, regulated version of the GAP 26 (010-010704-20) has a small box with the regulating circuitry that is mounted near the probe. This version of the GAP 26 probe is also equipped with an internal temperature sensor which the regulating circuit uses to only supply as much current as the probe needs to remain ice free. This current, of course, varies with the operating conditions.

The heated, regulated version of the GAP 26 also provides an output discrete that G3X uses to provide alerts related to the heated probe. The alert configuration is configurable in several ways, but one configuration is described below.

You get in your plane on a cold day when the temperature is below 7 degs C (45 degs F) and power on your avionics with the pitot heat switch turned off. A yellow "PITOT TEMP" alert message pops up on your PFD reminding you that it is cold enough that you might want to turn on your pitot heat. You turn your pitot heat on, and as soon as the pitot probe temperate rises above approximately 25 degs C (77 degs F), the yellow "PITOT TEMP" annunciator goes away, and you are ready to fly. If you are flying along and experience a problem with your pitot heat and the probe gets too cold, the yellow "PITOT TEMP" annunciator will pop up on your PFD as a warning that your pitot probe heat is not working.

Let us know if you have additional questions.

Thanks,
Steve
 
Steve,
Does this pitot heat alert require a Garmin probe? I don't see a reference in the install manual as to the setup of the alerts you described. Sounds like a nice feature
 
Bill.Peyton said:
Steve,
Does this pitot heat alert require a Garmin probe? I don't see a reference in the install manual as to the setup of the alerts you described. Sounds like a nice feature
Click to expand...

Hello Bill,

To have the same capability, you would need a heated probe with a similar discrete output to the Garmin GAP 26 probe that changes state depending on probe temperature.

I sent you an email containing the new GAP 26 installation manual section which also describes the new configurable pitot probe alerts and the behavior of this output discrete. This alert capability is already supported in the V8.30 G3X software that has been out for a while.

If anyone else needs a copy of this manual section before the next installation manual version is released, please send an email to [email protected].

Thanks,
Steve
 
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g3xpert said:
Hello Bill,

To have the same capability, you would need a heated probe with a similar discrete output to the Garmin GAP 26 probe that changes state depending on probe temperature.

I sent you an email containing the new GAP 26 installation manual section which also describes the new configurable pitot probe alerts and the behavior of this output discrete. This alert capability is already supported in the V8.30 G3X software that has been out for a while.

If anyone else needs a copy of this manual section before the next installation manual version is released, just let us know.

Thanks,
Steve
Click to expand...

I want a copy
 
Anyone tried a Dynon Pitot with a G3X?
This for me is really a question of how well the AoA function works with this mix of equipment.
I can't see an answer to that original question in this thread.
John
 
I am about to find out this week. I'm in the process of adding a GSU 25 to my current system, which uses the Dynon heated pitot with AOA port.
 
Bill
looking forward to any reports.
Brian - no need to be sorry. Busy schedules are the bane of our lives. You seem to get a lot done on so many fronts, from where I stand.
 
While I don't have a report yet, I did get the GSU 25 backup AHRS installed and ready to fly. All that's left is to calibrate the AOA with the Dynon heated pitot tube. If the wx cooperates I will have a report back today on the compatibility.

Edit: I was able to fly, but conditions were too rough to calibrate. Hopefully next week
 
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I finally was able to get some time in the air to perform a calibration of the GSU25 ADAHRS AOA with the Dynon pitot tube.

There are 4 calibration points that are required.
1. Full Stall AOA
2. Imminent Stall AOA
3. Target Approach Speed 1.3 VSO (or whatever you desire it to be)
4. AOA at which the AOA window appears on the G3X PFD display

After calibration I re-checked the stall warnings and displayed chevrons with actual stall conditions. The first three AOA cal points appear to operate with repeatable results.

The 4th calibration point is aircraft AOA trigger (not speed) for the AOA window to appear on the G3X display. I chose 95kts as it is also Vfe for 15 degs of flaps, and it is the same speed that I have set in my Vertical Power VPX for max extension speed. The procedure I used to calibrate this value was essentially power on, level, slow flight at 95kts.

To verify this cal point was acceptable, I performed an actual approach to landing, the AOA window did not appear on the G3X until I had reached ~85kts. I have surmised that this is due to the fact that the AOA for slow flight, with power on, holding altitude at 95kts is completely different than 95kts descending into the pattern. What I plan on doing is repeating the calibration simulating the actual AOA that one would expect when descending into the airport environment.

The good news is it appears that the Dynon heated pitot will function properly with the GSU 25 AOA feature. It's going to take a little more tweaking, but I believe it will end up being acceptable.

Whether or not I choose to keep the Dynon heated pitot for other possible icing issues being discussed in other various threads, is a different story.

I will post a follow-up after some more testing over the weekend.
 
So what is the story on the Garmin heated pitot that was supposed to be available 6 months ago. It would be nice to get an update from Garmin on this. Are they still planning on making it or not?

I was expecting Santa to bring me one of these.
 
rapid_ascent said:
So what is the story on the Garmin heated pitot that was supposed to be available 6 months ago. It would be nice to get an update from Garmin on this. Are they still planning on making it or not?

I was expecting Santa to bring me one of these.
Click to expand...

As far as I know and last I heard they were shipping and have been for some time. Do you have one on order with a dealer? There still may be a backlog of orders...
 
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My understanding is there were to be 2 models: one that is unregulated and one that is regulated. The regulated one doesn't appear to be available yet. I just did some checks at ACS and etc. looking for it recently.
 
They are indeed shipping. From John's post in another thread.....

"I just received my Garmin GAP Pitot tube kit.

You will need the latest manual from there web site for the install.

It is 20 X the quality of the Grezt I hate to say.

I am way impressed with the kit. The control box is a completely enclosed unit.

Will worth the wait to get.


__________________
John Cumins A & P for way to long
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Emp complete , slow build Wings Fuel Tanks Finished, and working on bottom wing skins...
My Build log http://websites.expercraft.com/jcrv10"



Maybe Santa will leave one under the tree tonight!
 
rapid_ascent said:
My understanding is there were to be 2 models: one that is unregulated and one that is regulated. The regulated one doesn't appear to be available yet. I just did some checks at ACS and etc. looking for it recently.
Click to expand...

I think they both are. I am going to switch to the regular on off heated model. For the limited times I will ever use it, it makes no sense for me to put in the regulated one. I love technology but the regulated pitot's are a bit over the top to me. As long as it gets hot when I want it to and it does not freeze in normal RV capable IMC conditions I am happy.
 
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Bill
Thanks for the report. Very good to have you in Test Pilot mode, and a very informative report. Great help.
Merry Christmas
John
 
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