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  #11  
Old 03-02-2021, 06:13 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,818
Default Misplaced

That happens - and when it does I can look right at it and not see it, so my procedure for Misplaced items is to clean up and organize. That makes my brain open to seeing what is there until I run across the (not invisible) item.

Sometimes it takes a while, but always works, and man does stuff get organized.

Good Luck!!
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RV-7
Lord Kelvin:
I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.
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  #12  
Old 03-02-2021, 06:32 AM
jeffw@sc47's Avatar
jeffw@sc47 jeffw@sc47 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Simpsonville, SC (SC47)
Posts: 372
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillL View Post
That happens - and when it does I can look right at it and not see it, so my procedure for Misplaced items is to clean up and organize. That makes my brain open to seeing what is there until I run across the (not invisible) item.
Bill, I will claim to be a card carrying member of the Clean Up and Organize Club, I have been practicing the 'getting organized' merit badge requirements for years - some days the magic works and on others it doesn't; no matter how many times I learn new lessons. I still don't have the merit badge, still have a way to go.
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1946 Bellanca Cruisair 14-13-2 (74 YRS OLD 8/1/20)
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Contribution made 12/2/20 (USArmy 2/67-2/70)
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  #13  
Old 03-02-2021, 08:06 AM
calpilot calpilot is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Independence
Posts: 101
Default

Jeff, you are spot on! I am a DAR in the Northwest, and yes, these documents get audited, and if the -88 appears to be false, the local FSDO
may get involved to nullify the C of A.

Regards,

Gary
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  #14  
Old 03-02-2021, 10:59 AM
RV10Pilot RV10Pilot is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Medford, NJ USA
Posts: 354
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffw@sc47 View Post
Yesterday an FAA rep in the Registration Branch told me that it is a requirement for registration of a kit built airplane to submit FAA Form AC8050-88 (Affidavit of Ownership for A-B Aircraft . . .) with the second box checked (built from kit parts), along with an attached Bill of Sale, AC8050-2.

And, that it is not correct and is unacceptable to submit AC8050-88 with the first box checked (built from miscellaneous parts) for a kit built. It may slip through the registration process, but if anything occurs in the future where the registration is an issue you might have a big problem.

AC8050-88 requires your signature and notarization, it needs to be factual. Checking the first box claiming that your complete Van's aircraft kit was built from miscellaneous parts would be false and is not a work-around for a lost BOS.

This also, the FAA rep I spoke to told me that a kit manufacturer is not prohibited in any way by the FAA to reissue a Bill of Sale, and that if the kit manufacturer wants to provide me with a scanned (.pdf), or copy of the original BOS that they could have on file - that is acceptable. A copy of the BOS (that does not have an inked signature) is acceptable for registration for a experimental aircraft (from plans or kit); an inked original is required for a certified aircraft.
I don't understand why vans will not send you a copy of the bill of sale. If you need a FAA publication to help support your position with Vans it is here https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certifi...0Processes.pdf Section 3.4 page 126
In response to a request by the National Transportation Safety Board, effective October 1, 1998, the builder of an aircraft built from a kit must also submit a bill of sale from the manufacturer of the kit. The serial number on the kit bill of sale can be different than the serial number listed on the -88 and the application. Signatures on the kit bill of sale do not need to be signed in ink or be a printed duplicate of an electronic document that displays an acceptable legible digital signature. Photocopies are acceptable since a kit bill of sale is not recordable.

There is a process in section 3.3 of the document above Affidavit in Lieu of Recordable Evidence of Ownership but unfortunately it applies to "Aircraft" never registered and not a kit. But, there must be a process to register a kit if you cannot get a bill of sale. What if the kit manufacturer no longer exists or is out of business.
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  #15  
Old 03-02-2021, 11:41 AM
wilddog wilddog is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: va.
Posts: 617
Default

See p84 of that massive document for what to do when Bill of Sale cannot be obtained.
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  #16  
Old 03-03-2021, 02:26 PM
MGR1977 MGR1977 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Seattle
Posts: 34
Default You can get a copy

They can issue a copy. Jasmine Garcia of Van's told me last year that they lost some Bills of Sale in the post because of the pandemic. Contact her at jasmine@vansaircraft.com See the e-mail she sent me below after mine got lost.

Hello Martin,

Thank you for sending in this statement. We have issued a new 8050-2 for you and were able to get it signed today. Unfortunately my President was quite busy today and I was not able to get that done early enough to get it included in todays mail. However, it will be shipped out to you via Priority Mail tomorrow.

Best Regards,

Jasmine Garcia
Account and Documentation Specialist, Vans Aircraft, Inc.
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  #17  
Old 03-08-2021, 07:41 PM
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Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,969
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I have a friend who is trying to get a bill of sale from Vans. He was told that he is not eligible because he did not buy "all" the kits from Vans.
This can't be right. I know lots of people who bought kit projects from other people and did not buy all the kits from Vans.
Also there are other people who had their own materials such as FWF stuff and did not need those parts from Vans.

There has to be some kind of miscommunications here. What does he need to do to get a BOS for registration?
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EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
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USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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  #18  
Old 03-08-2021, 09:44 PM
PhatRV PhatRV is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Buena Park, California
Posts: 420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
I have a friend who is trying to get a bill of sale from Vans. He was told that he is not eligible because he did not buy "all" the kits from Vans.
This can't be right. I know lots of people who bought kit projects from other people and did not buy all the kits from Vans.
Also there are other people who had their own materials such as FWF stuff and did not need those parts from Vans.

There has to be some kind of miscommunications here. What does he need to do to get a BOS for registration?
This is going to be a problem if you purchase a partial RV4 so you can build a F1 or a Harmon rocket.
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  #19  
Old 03-09-2021, 05:54 AM
Mel's Avatar
Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhatRV View Post
This is going to be a problem if you purchase a partial RV4 so you can build a F1 or a Harmon rocket.
Nope, it's an RV-8. The only change he's made is the "ShowPlanes" fast-back mod.
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Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century. Over 1,000 certifications accomplished.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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  #20  
Old 03-09-2021, 06:08 AM
engineerorange engineerorange is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Catawba, NC
Posts: 200
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
I have a friend who is trying to get a bill of sale from Vans. He was told that he is not eligible because he did not buy "all" the kits from Vans.
This can't be right. I know lots of people who bought kit projects from other people and did not buy all the kits from Vans.
Also there are other people who had their own materials such as FWF stuff and did not need those parts from Vans.

There has to be some kind of miscommunications here. What does he need to do to get a BOS for registration?
This sounds like someone has confused the rules for ELSA with EAB. You do in fact have to buy all the parts from Vans for an ELSA. For an EAB you should only need a builder number to get a bill of sale.
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