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  #11  
Old 11-05-2022, 09:11 PM
Piper J3's Avatar
Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Hinckley, Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everwild View Post
I think the doors and glass are in the finish kit? Those items would give builders a big chunk of work if they were sent with the fuse, or just sent to builders who needed the parts to keep working.
RV-12 doesn't have doors.... at least mine doesn't.....
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Jim Stricker - EAA #499867
PPL/ASEL 1970 - Sport Pilot since 2007
80 hrs Flying Aeronca Chief 11AC N86203
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Bought Flying RV-12 #120058 Oct 2015 with 48TT - Hobbs now 830

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  #12  
Old 11-05-2022, 10:00 PM
Scott Hersha Scott Hersha is online now
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 2,430
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I’ve been reading these posts for a long time, and fortunately they don’t affect me because with my latest build - I bought a used kit that was mostly complete - didn’t involve as much kit component parts. I’ve built 4 of these RV kits and mostly didn’t have to deal with these unusually long delays. What bothers me is that the quality of this company seems to be ‘tarnished’. I never had to deal with these kind of delays with the kits I’ve built before. I spoke with Abby from Flightline Interiors yesterday and she said she is not accepting orders for her interior parts until she hires enough qualified people for her to meet demand. She said her orders were approaching a year out, and that is ridiculous, and she didn’t want to run her business that way. One of the things I wanted from her was her aileron control tube boots, and she has them in stock. Anyway, I commend her for having a business standard that doesn’t keep her customers waiting for something that they may need much sooner.
I don’t understand why Vans Aircraft doesn’t just stop accepting orders for new kits and subkits until they can get this under control. They are sacrificing their excellent reputation as a kit supplier with delivery dates they know they can’t possibly comply with, evidenced by their track record over the past year or so. The reputation of Vans Aircraft has been the best of any kit aircraft company for a long time, and that’s one reason why many of us chose to go with this kit decision. They are burning that loyalty that has been created over the last decades with quality parts and honesty with their business.
I ordered some subkits for my RV6 last year in February. Part of the order was my baffle kit. There were two parts on the baffle kit that was on back order, but they sent me the rest of the kit (plus an exhaust system and other parts on the order). Well, in May I called Vans and asked about the remaining baffle kit parts delivery status and they said they were still looking for some vender to supply these parts, and that they estimated it would be at least three months later. I told them to cancel the back order, and that I would just make the parts myself. These were parts that are flat aluminum that I made myself in maybe 1hour, and that they should have been able to pop out of a CNC machine at 1,000 an hour. Anyway, I canceled the back order. I’ve done that twice over the last six months, but the order is still open. The total order was over $2000, less the non-delivered BO parts, and it is still open….. 9 months later.
Don’t get me wrong. I think Vans Aircraft has the best series of EAB aircraft there is. I just think they have lost it when it comes to supplying kits in the way the company was created. I have many local friends that have ordered parts, been given delivery dates, and have not gotten them - months later. One of my local friends, 5 time RV builder, ordered parts for an RV7 aileron last winter. He was told to expect delivery in May. No word from Vans, nothing, even with inquiries, so he built the part himself, and finished the aileron for the customer. He just finally received the aileron rib part from Vans yesterday. No explanation about the delay - nothing. This is not an isolated story. I hope they can get their delivery problems straightened out, because this company is the lifeblood of GA in my opinion.
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RV6/2001 built 2000/sold 2005
RV8 Fastback/2008 built/sold 2015
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RV8/2018 built/Sold(sadly)
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Cincinnati, OH/KHAO
JAN2022

Last edited by Scott Hersha : 11-05-2022 at 10:04 PM.
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  #13  
Old 11-05-2022, 11:13 PM
CessnaTPA CessnaTPA is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Riverview
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Ordered the finishing kit July 5th 2021 received it Nov 4th.
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  #14  
Old 11-06-2022, 11:40 AM
Paul Thomas Paul Thomas is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fort Myers, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsr3 View Post
Meanwhile our deposits languish in Van’s bank account. I do hope the despondency being shown here doesn’t come back to bite Aurora on the arse…
I was told by Van's that the 25% deposit is used as operating cash flow... I really didn't like that answer given the lead times.
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  #15  
Old 11-06-2022, 12:17 PM
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rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Thomas View Post
I was told by Van's that the 25% deposit is used as operating cash flow... I really didn't like that answer given the lead times.
Seems pretty reasonable I think - some of Van's suppliers are not huge multinationals that can afford to float months of stock before they get paid. This money has to come from somewhere.

Imagine the other way - 100 finish kits on order, COGS is $10k each, Van's needs to pay for all these parts while they pull together all the components and package them into your finishing kit. That's a cool million they need to pay out while waiting for all the parts to come together. Van's is doing well, but that's a lot of money out. And the number might be higher than 100.

Another option is that they can borrow money to pay these suppliers, and increase kit prices to cover these costs - which just make some lucky financial institution richer using your money.

Since you are going to pay the money anyway, and what interest rate would you get from your bank if the money stayed there? Probably less than the increase due to borrowing money.
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  #16  
Old 11-06-2022, 12:40 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
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Originally Posted by Paul Thomas View Post
I was told by Van's that the 25% deposit is used as operating cash flow... I really didn't like that answer given the lead times.
Why do you need cash when your supplier won't ship you a part for 16 months and won't receive an invoice for it until a month after that. Makes sense if they wait until 3 months before anticipated ship date before collecting it though. Understandable for parts they make, but I sure hope it is not taking them 16 months to make a part once they paid for raw materials; Likely all supplier issues.

I do understand taking a deposit to hold a slot for you though. Given the expansion necessary to meet the current demand, that seems fair.

Larry
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Last edited by lr172 : 11-06-2022 at 12:52 PM.
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  #17  
Old 11-06-2022, 12:46 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by rv8ch View Post
Seems pretty reasonable I think - some of Van's suppliers are not huge multinationals that can afford to float months of stock before they get paid. This money has to come from somewhere.

Imagine the other way - 100 finish kits on order, COGS is $10k each, Van's needs to pay for all these parts while they pull together all the components and package them into your finishing kit. That's a cool million they need to pay out while waiting for all the parts to come together. Van's is doing well, but that's a lot of money out. And the number might be higher than 100.

Another option is that they can borrow money to pay these suppliers, and increase kit prices to cover these costs - which just make some lucky financial institution richer using your money.

Since you are going to pay the money anyway, and what interest rate would you get from your bank if the money stayed there? Probably less than the increase due to borrowing money.
Given that nobody can seem to get anything from Vans in less than 6 months, it seems unlikely to me that they are sitting on parts for 16 months to ship your complete order. If they are, they need to hire a financial guy. Industry kinda cracked the code on inventory management in the 80's. According to posters on this thread, even after 16 months they are seeing significant BO quantities.

Larry
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Last edited by lr172 : 11-06-2022 at 12:48 PM.
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  #18  
Old 11-06-2022, 01:14 PM
rsr3 rsr3 is offline
 
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I don’t disagree that a deposit is sensible, but with such long lead times and the price increases on all components and fuel, who is to say that the “good times” that Van’s experienced over the last two years don’t very quickly change for the worse and people stop building? It wouldn’t take long before a lack of income stream means our deposits are at risk.

Irrespective of the deposits, I feel your pain. I’m awaiting a 7 finish kit and I’ve only been waiting 9 months… waiting is boring!
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  #19  
Old 11-07-2022, 04:45 AM
N661DJ N661DJ is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Winter Haven
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I waited 23 months for an RV-6 finish kit, received with numerous backorders. After a conversation with Greg at Sun n Fun all I got were excuses, Its time for Vans to stop the excuses and start solving the problem. Every problem has a solution and excuses are not the answer. If the management at Vans can't solve this issue, perhaps someone else can.
I have been a loyal Vans customer, having built several airplanes, bought, sold, enjoyed many more.
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  #20  
Old 11-07-2022, 06:26 AM
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MacCool MacCool is online now
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: central Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hersha View Post
I’ve been reading these posts for a long time, and fortunately they don’t affect me because with my latest build - I bought a used kit that was mostly complete - didn’t involve as much kit component parts. I’ve built 4 of these RV kits and mostly didn’t have to deal with these unusually long delays. What bothers me is that the quality of this company seems to be ‘tarnished’. I never had to deal with these kind of delays with the kits I’ve built before. I spoke with Abby from Flightline Interiors yesterday and she said she is not accepting orders for her interior parts until she hires enough qualified people for her to meet demand. She said her orders were approaching a year out, and that is ridiculous, and she didn’t want to run her business that way. One of the things I wanted from her was her aileron control tube boots, and she has them in stock. Anyway, I commend her for having a business standard that doesn’t keep her customers waiting for something that they may need much sooner.
The original builder of my airplane used Flightline Interiors 10 years ago. When I bought it, I noted that the quality of the leather seating was excellent but I never cared for the seat style and the foam was at EOL. I called Abby in early May of 2021 about new seats and she was very helpful but very clear that she had a 10 month backlog. She was very apologetic. I didn't have a pressing need so I went ahead. The seats and carpet that she built for me were excellent, and delivered exactly when she had predicted. Interesting to note that the backlog problem has been getting so much worse. I was frustrated with the seats and I'm sure the delays would be far worse if I was building an airplane, but given how little I know about the manufacturing process, I certainly don't blame Abby, nor could I entirely blame Van's, for the delays.
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Last edited by MacCool : 11-07-2022 at 06:54 AM.
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