What keeps you from flying aerobatics? Really?

[Brantel]

Originally Posted by ronschreck

but I have seen several who are new to aerobatics freeze in the middle of an aileron roll and pull right into a split-S with a resultant high G pull-out

A million times yes! I think the aileron roll is one of the easiest (might be sloppy though) and most dangerous maneuvers for an inexperienced wanna be aerobatic RV pilot out there. When I was teaching myself how to do aileron rolls (don't do this! get some instruction!) I was fore warned about chickening out at the wrong time and prior to rolling my airplane for the first time I kept chanting to myself "keep rolling, keep rolling, keep rolling" until I knew for a fact that I was back right side up. I quickly realized how easy it would have been to chicken out at the wrong time and end up in a bad situation!

Also consider the fact that at least in the side by side RV's, rolling left seems more natural than rolling to the right. The feeling and experience is much different when rolling to the right! If you are comfortable rolling left, don't freeze up on your rolls to the right or you could also end up in a bad situation.

[flyinhood]

Thank you Ron. I am an active CFI and obviously love all things RV. I would love if training acro IN my RV-6 was an option, but I don’t see how. Does anyone know the useful weight up to Acro gross in a 7 or 8?

But the way. I highly recommend Rons EAA webinar about acro in RVs.

Hoody

[Ironflight]

Originally Posted by ronschreck

Sorry, I don't have your name.

Dick VanGrunsven has cautioned pilots about exceeding published limitations and I fully support that stance. Some will argue that if you are above the aerobatic weight limitation but below the normal max gross weight you could limit aerobatics to 4 Gs and still be safe. I disagree. A very experienced acro pilot may be able to do that, but I have seen several who are new to aerobatics freeze in the middle of an aileron roll and pull right into a split-S with a resultant high G pull-out. Stay within the published weight and CG limits and practice with enough altitude to make a successful recovery from a botched figure. PERIOD!

I know of no attempts to bail out of a RV. Anybody?

As far as I know, there was one bailout of an RV-8 to escape in inflight fire - but the pilot didn?t have a chute, so even though he got out, I?d have a hard time classifying it as a ?success?.

[Pittsartist]

Add another option to the poll

"I've been for an aerobatic ride as a passenger. The pilot scared me and / or I did not enjoy the sensation of not being in control"

..... I think a few slip through the net this way.

[luddite42]

Originally Posted by flyinhood

I would love if training acro IN my RV-6 was an option, but I don?t see how. Does anyone know the useful weight up to Acro gross in a 7 or 8?

More RV pilots need to realize that obtaining acro training in their RV is really not necessary. Learn the basics in a Decathlon and you will be good to go on our own to practice what you learned while keeping in mind that the RV is just a little cleaner. The overspeed issue is overblown and mostly only an issue for those who are literally teaching themselves. Just get some instruction in a trainer. The skills are perfectly transferable. There really isn't anything unique about RV acro.

[ronschreck]

Originally Posted by Pittsartist

Add another option to the poll

"I've been for an aerobatic ride as a passenger. The pilot scared me and / or I did not enjoy the sensation of not being in control"

..... I think a few slip through the net this way.

Richard,

You bring up a very good point, perhaps not in line with this thread but worth discussing.

I would not encourage anyone who is not comfortable and quite experienced with aerobatics to take a passenger (other than an aerobatic instructor) along while doing aerobatics. Having a second person in the airplane causes weight and CG issues which you may not be ready for.

For those of you who are experienced aerobatic pilots, you are doing a disservice to the aerobatic community if you are anything less than completely professional while flying with a passenger. Remember, FARs require that both parties must be wearing a parachute (FAR 91.307(c)) and the minimum altitude for aerobatics outside of waivered airspace is 1500 feet AGL, not over congested areas, not within class B,C,D or E airspace designated for an airport, not within four miles of the center line of a Federal airway nor when visibility is less than three miles. (ref: FAR 91.303)

I often introduce passengers to aerobatics and want to make it an enjoyable experience for them. I tell them what to expect prior to getting in the aircraft and brief them on exit procedure, the use of the parachute and let them know that we can stop what we are doing and land at any time they feel uncomfortable. I limit aerobatics to positive G barrel rolls and other low-G maneuvers. It doesn't take multiple snap rolls and negative G pushes to give someone the ride of their life. Make the experience so enjoyable that they will want to come back for more or even take up aerobatics themselves!

[Saville]

Nothing keeps me from flying aerobatics in my RV-8. I so so just about every time I fly unless it's a cross country.

I have about 60 hours aerobatic training and experience; trained in a Super Decathlon, soloed that plus a Citabria and then my RV-8. Loops, rolls, Cuban 8's, reverse Cubans, lots of spins. In fact I got spin training before even getting my PPL.

I also have about 25 hours formation training and experience. I have upset/unusual attitude training as well

I have a chute and wear it.

I have a helmet and wear it.

But I get the sense that the poll is more asking why people don't compete. That's an entirely different issue from whether or not people fly acro.

[sandifer]

Originally Posted by Saville

But I get the sense that the poll is more asking why people don't compete. That's an entirely different issue from whether or not people fly acro.

To me, there is a more underlying question associated with Ron's poll, and that is why more RV pilots are not MORE interested in acro and hanging out with like-minded folks who can help them significantly increase their skills and knowledge. I've always encouraged folks with cautious interest to come out and practice, improve, learn, make new friends, etc. Whether they actually choose to compete is secondary in my mind. I get the impression that many RV pilots do not recognize the world of possibility that exists beyond lazy fun flopping around, while equating "competition" style acro to Sean Tucker's airshow routine. Competing for most is simply a byproduct of having a natural interest in precision flying and the learning process and satisfaction that goes along with seeing your skills and ability pushed far beyond what you'd achieve just wallering around by yourself without any real dedication.

And don't tell me that most RV pilots are only interested in being solo free form non-precision artistic graceful Bob Ross' of the sky or whatever....because I sure see RVers flock to formation clinics and groups. There are way too many engineer types among the RV crowd to not be interested in precision flying and the study and camaraderie that goes along with learning to do it well.

[Saville]

Originally Posted by sandifer

And don't tell me that most RV pilots are only interested in being solo free form non-precision artistic graceful Bob Ross' of the sky or whatever....because I sure see RVers flock to formation clinics and groups. There are way too many engineer types among the RV crowd to not be interested in precision flying and the study and camaraderie that goes along with learning to do it well.

I wouldn't dream of telling you RV'ers want to be Bob Ross's of the sky.....

Thomas Kinkaid's maybe

But you say there are "way too many....not to be interested..." But yet that's what seems to be the case...hence the poll to find out why.

I can think of a lot of reasons. Firstly, there's lots of types of "precision flying" and acro is only one of those types.

Secondly: sure the Primary sequence and lots of maneuvers don't require direct injection nor inverted oil. But lots of people don't want to clean up the oil off the bottoms of their plane very flight nor pump in more oil after each flight.

Next: not everyone has the time for the sorts of flying hours it takes to get to "precision". Or even to get to "comfy". Heck in the Winter I'm lucky if I can get in the air twice a week given the weather...whole weeks can go by without flying weather.

Next: Camaraderie...like "precision" there's all different kinds of camaraderie in the flying world and acro is only one of them. So that is going to siphon people off.

Same is true for "study"...lots of different things to study in the flying game and acro is only one of them.

Going to IAC meetings (as well as EAA) does take time and effort. Lots of us lead busy lives. Time has to be allotted judiciously.

There's a million reasons, I think, because people are different.

[sandifer]

Originally Posted by control

To get high scores you need to make aggressive start/stop on rolls and other maneuvers, I like to fly barrel rolls where the ball is more or less centered, not the competition style and so on.... I want smooth, the competition rules want distinct, completely different

Hel|, RVs don't roll fast enough to start "aggressively". To each their own, but anyone who thinks competition acro is all about jerking the airplane around as abruptly as possible doesn't really understand the goals and judging criteria, and has never seen Ron, Bill, or Jerry fly a sequence in their RV.

And also, you can be into 'precision' acro without being into competition. Check out this herky jerky maneuver I shot in the Pitts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdMWcQYZXsU