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  #21  
Old 05-22-2022, 11:54 PM
Jim Frisbie Jim Frisbie is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Canby
Posts: 60
Default

I have used a diluted phosphoric acid wash with scotch brite pads, rinse, let dry then prime.
For small parts I use Alodine 1/1 bath for 5-7 minutes
I have never had any problems with flaking.

Jim Frisbie
RV 9A 950 hrs
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  #22  
Old 05-23-2022, 06:22 AM
eric.the.blonde eric.the.blonde is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Ann Arbor
Posts: 50
Default Lacquer Thinner & Bonderite

I'm very satisfied with the results on the 6061 and select alclad items:

1) Clean d/o/g with acetone or lacquer thinner.
2) Bonderite alumniprep
3) Bonderite 5700 conversion coat, which is a non-chorme alodine I'm comfortable using at home.
4) SES self-etching primer.

Doesn't take long at all.
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Ann Arbor, MI
RV-9A under construction (QB fuse)
President, EAA Chapter 333 Flying Stinkers
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  #23  
Old 05-23-2022, 09:09 AM
wirejock's Avatar
wirejock wirejock is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 5,489
Default Process

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulvS View Post
There should be no need to use anything as strong as acetone for degreasing kit parts. The vapours are also bad for your health.

My suggestion to prep for priming is as follows:

1) Deburr holes and smooth/round edges as per normal practice.

2) Degrease using a specific wax/silicone/grease remover, this may be naptha based. It is friendly to nitrile gloves. Use a clean cloth or paper towels, not scotch brite. Scotch brite at this stage will spread the dissolved oil and grease into the scratched surface.

3) Remove the oxidation using maroon scotch brite with water and a few drops of mild detergent. The water will sheet off when the oxide is removed. Rinse and dry the parts.

4) Within six hours (to avoid re-oxidation) wipe down the parts with methylated spirits and clean towels just before spraying the primer.

Clean gloves should be used to handle the parts through all of the above so as to avoid contamination with body oils.
Whatever primer, this is a good environmental and human griendly prep process. I tried several processes and a simple scuff with a soap works. I did find Alumiprep seemed to work better for Alodine prep. I may try that new Alodine 5700. I really hate using that other stuff.
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Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
E-mail: wirejock at yahoo dot com
Builder Blog: http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
Donated 12/01/2021, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV reserved
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
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  #24  
Old 05-24-2022, 06:28 AM
Southern Pete Southern Pete is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: England
Posts: 190
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulvS View Post
There should be no need to use anything as strong as acetone for degreasing kit parts. The vapours are also bad for your health.
You should qualify that statement, I agree Acetone is an aggressive solvent. It is an eye irritant, should not be ingested and may cause drowsiness or dizziness (in my experience needs large concentrations) also repeated exposure can cause skin dryness or cracking. But it is one of the least hazardous of the solvents. Can be used in small quantities (such as the uses suggested here) with only hand protection, normal splash precautions and some ventilation.
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  #25  
Old 05-24-2022, 07:26 AM
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PaulvS PaulvS is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 1,192
Default acetone makes me dizzy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Pete View Post
You should qualify that statement, I agree Acetone is an aggressive solvent. It is an eye irritant, should not be ingested and may cause drowsiness or dizziness (in my experience needs large concentrations) also repeated exposure can cause skin dryness or cracking. But it is one of the least hazardous of the solvents. Can be used in small quantities (such as the uses suggested here) with only hand protection, normal splash precautions and some ventilation.
I agree Pete that there are more hazardous solvents, e.g. MEK, and that the hazards you've listed for acetone are as per the MSDS. When it comes to health and safety in the shop, I simply believe that it is worth minimising exposure by avoiding or choosing safer alternatives and wearing protective gear, according to the level of risk that we are personally prepared to take. If I ingested enough of any solvent to feel dizzy, I'd be concerned about the damage that's being done to my remaining brain cells!
Cheers,
Paul.
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Paul vS (yes I'm also a Van)
Building RV-6A #22320 O-320 FP. Wings and tail complete, fuselage almost done, working on canopy.
Flying my Aeroprakt A-22 STOL and the aero club's RV-9A while I build
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  #26  
Old 05-24-2022, 07:57 AM
wirejock's Avatar
wirejock wirejock is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 5,489
Default Nail salons

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulvS View Post
I agree Pete that there are more hazardous solvents, e.g. MEK, and that the hazards you've listed for acetone are as per the MSDS. When it comes to health and safety in the shop, I simply believe that it is worth minimising exposure by avoiding or choosing safer alternatives and wearing protective gear, according to the level of risk that we are personally prepared to take. If I ingested enough of any solvent to feel dizzy, I'd be concerned about the damage that's being done to my remaining brain cells!
Cheers,
Paul.
Walk into a nail salon sometime. Wow! Talk about fumes. Some nail polish remover is Acetone based. I wonder about the Cosmetologists working in there all day.
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Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
E-mail: wirejock at yahoo dot com
Builder Blog: http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
Donated 12/01/2021, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV reserved
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
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  #27  
Old 07-25-2022, 10:10 AM
imrah6 imrah6 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lynnville, Tennessee
Posts: 29
Default Pre-RV-10 Empennage Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotjohnS View Post
I tried rattle can primer but was never happy with the adhesion. I bit the bullet and went with Sherwin Williams P60G2. I thought it would be a hassle to mix, spray, and clean up. Turns out it is really easy to use. The hardest part is putting on the respirator ( buy a good 3M one from Home Depot).

My opinion is that rattle can is good for a small quick repairs, but it wont take the building abuse I subject my parts to. It seems others have good success with rattle can primer, but the stuff I was able to buy in Southern California were really worthless, in my opinion.

I hope you have better luck.
I just received my empennage, well, most of it, 2 weeks ago and am now really digging in to the primer issue. I had planned from previous reading to just use P60 as I figured if it's good enough for Vans then it's good enough for me.

I read elsewhere that it is hard to get a decent coat with an HVLP gun so was wondering about an auto paint sprayer ? I don't own either at this point and would probably purchase from Harbor Freight...but they seem a lot cheaper than I am used to seeing.

Any comments anyone ?

Thanks in advance.
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I should go back to work. Even as an entrepreneur I never was as busy as I am now that I am "retired"
First time builder but hope it won't be the last !

RV-10 Empennage received mid July 2022
Workshop almost ready July 2022
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  #28  
Old 07-25-2022, 12:24 PM
PhatRV PhatRV is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Buena Park, California
Posts: 859
Default

I find that the primer sticks best to the aluminum that has been scruffed with the red scrotchbrite pad, etched, and alodined. My experience with self-etching primer is it will stick well to a surface that has been scruffed and cleaned with a solvent such as acetone or denatured alcohol (or isopropyl alcohol in CA). No alodine is needed. However, it's expensive to use it on the entire airplane.

I also used 2 part epoxy primer for exterior surfaces. This stuff sticks to almost anything, plastic, metal, fiberglass, and more. The surface to be primed still must be scruffed and cleaned with strong solvent to clean off an oil residues. Every paint supplier has its concoction of this 2 part epoxy primer, usually it is rebranded from a well known international paint company.

For the HLPV gun, I bought an inexpensive Eastwood brand gun which is probably a Chinese copy of a popular gun. It has two tips, one for primer and one for paint. It worked well for me in the last three years. I am in the final stage of painting my plane. The paint quality is actually dependent on the guy that shoots the paint, and not on the gun. My neighbor bought an even cheaper gun from Home Depot and the quality of his painted car is better than the paint quality on my flat surface airplane skin.

I try not to overthink it because my RV won't win any Lindy.
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Days to AWC: 999
Days to First Flight: 999
Painting: 85% completed
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