Just a data point here. I was in Davis, CA two days ago.
At the airport (EDU) the price of 100LL was $4.07 ($4.02 if pre-paid), and the price for 87 at the pump was $3.87.
I was suprised at only a 20 cent spread between the two.
Wow...100LL is $4.50/gallon here in North Texas.
Interesting data on what happens to "old" fuel from the Project Farm guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvS_D4_lF5U
I have no plans to run fuel with ethanol, but i included all the right kinds of rubber in my system that "should" handle ethanol. I was not expecting what he saw with respect to aluminum corrosion. Can't imagine this is good for our fuel tanks.
I am guessing he meant this.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/John-Dow-Industries-JDI-AFT58-58-Gallon-Diesel-Carry-Tank/536931984
It says for diesel, what is different for holding gas?
I do admire the true Experimental guys. Their innovation has truly helped move General Aviation forward. But I’m not that guy. I don’t know enough to experiment with something that might force a return to Earth at a time and place not of my choosing. For me personally...Experimental aviation stops forward of the firewall. I’ll switch to mogas just as soon as an alternative that is approved by Lycoming for my engine is available on the fuel truck at my airport.
Here's all the places in Minnesota where you can buy non-ethanol unleaded gas. https://www.pure-gas.org/extensions/maps.jsp?statecode=MN
A fuel injected engine is a plus and 91 Octane E10 is perfectly good to use.I have a fuel injected engine (strike 1), Pmag (strike 2), best around me is 91
summed it up nicely, lead is pure evil in a Lycomingtgmillso
No it doesn't, not in my airplane after10 years of using 91E10,Automotive fuel (from the corner station) can have ethanol and do nasty things to aircraft seals
A fuel injected engine is a plus and 91 Octane E10 is perfectly good to use.
Don't know anything about P-mags and why those would be a strike??
Hi Manfred, this is a common technique for running mogas, and allows the best of both - safety and cost savings. I personally use only UL91 at this time, but might try mogas sometime in the future. I ran one tank of 100LL just for testing to see if there was any difference between 100LL and UL91, but they seemed almost identical in my application (RV-8, IO-360, AFP FM-200, PMAGS, red/silver paint )Hello,
i fly since aproxx.. 3 Years, one Tank 100LL, and the other Tank Mogas (EN228) i have, and see no bad reactions also on warmer Days....
I Change every year Mogas and Avgas between the Tanks....(no Mix!)
Start and Landing always with Avgas, Cruising and further Cruise climb with Mogas....
Engine, Sparks and Oil Analyze shows no issues... (but i hab only 170 H Hobbs)
Maybe the leaning is a bit different.. during Leaning Process, EGT's comes a little bit earlyer with Mogas, and the CHT's are a few Degrees higher after Level Off with same Controll Levers Positions in higher ALtitude between the both Fuels....
what are your perceptions on this subject?
Greetings
Manfred
Fuel injected is a strike in my mind because of their ability to "run" on the ground while heat soaked on a hot day. Auto fuel will make it worse.
If you install the SDS or EFII systems that has the fuel constantly circulating back to the tank, the vapor lock issues are non-existent. I meant zero. My engine starts even better when it is warmed.
I also run 93 mogas with 10% ethanol in my aircraft. No issues what so ever. I used to run Avgas on one side and mogas on the other. Made several tests and I cannot tell the difference between the two. It is probable that the mogas will make less power at 10K+ altitude. Have not been there yet.
I did run teflon lined hoses for all of my flex lines and all elastomers are viton to be compatible with the ethanol.
Yes, with those systems/setup I could see how this problem would disappear.
Related to start-up = big yes.
Related to other operation = big unknown. A lot would depend on overall fuel system configuration/variables. Unless I'm not understanding the intended statement/idea above.
Did I say impossible? Nope. You just made a strawman argument. Just a hassle and loss of margin of safety. The savings is not worth it to me. I have read dozens and dozens of accident reports over the years caused by using Auto gas. You save what? A few bucks. Some run one tank Av gas for takeoff and landing, and switch to auto gas tank for cruise. That shows me how confident they are. I have seen it all. No thank you. CheersIt can be done, it's not impossible and it's not even as difficult as you make it out to be.
Those who say something is impossible should not mess with those that are doing it.
Some run one tank Av gas for takeoff and landing, and switch to auto gas tank for cruise. That shows me how confident they are.
I recently experienced a stuck exhaust valve on mogas. Above in this thread it was proposed that some lead does help lubrication. Yet, others share how they run TBO on mogas with no issues. Any comments to share ?
Each to their own of course cause that's what Experimental is all about BUT unlike a vehicle you just cant pull over when the engine fails or starts acting up. I value my life a lot more than saving a few bucks here and there for cheap fuel in my Lyc!
I was using E0 91 octane in my carbed 0-320 with no problems for a couple hundred hours until I got a tankful of what i surmise to be winter fuel in May. Engine stalled and wouldnt start so i pushed it of to the side, pointed it into the wind and 25 minutes later was good to go. Kind of put me off using mogas though.
Have had vapor lock issues with 100LL on the ground in hot southern Kalifornia during initial flight testing with oil temperatures over 230.
I was using E0 91 octane in my carbed 0-320 with no problems for a couple hundred hours until I got a tankful of what i surmise to be winter fuel in May. Engine stalled and wouldnt start so i pushed it of to the side, pointed it into the wind and 25 minutes later was good to go. Kind of put me off using mogas though.
The reason that there is not a simple answer is that every engine and aircraft is different, and of course every pilot is different....
I am less concerned with saving the money - but interested in a cleaner engine and dont know if it is worth any possible issues.
I read this entire thread and I am more confused than ever.
Here's how I get MOGAS to the airport. Ironically, the current 100LL price at my home airport is actually less than 91 octane pump gas nearby. And fuel price is my driver for hauling fuel. Prior to the last year, it was generally over a $1 a gallon more for avgas, so it's interesting times here is Wackifornia.
It's the same thing in Wackytexas, non-ethanol 91 is more expensive than avgas in my area.
Thanks Gary for the info and for resurrecting this thread. Were you getting all the mogas from one source? I'm wondering if that was some or all of the cause of your issues, i.e. just some bad gas. From what I've read there can be a lot of variation in quality.
This topic intrigues me and I've considered similar experimentation with non- ethanol premium from a local station but lately the price is more than 100LL. Though cost is only part of it, I just wish I could get the lead out -- of my exhaust valves, and spark plugs, and the tailpipe.