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  #31  
Old 03-20-2019, 10:47 AM
David Paule David Paule is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 5,063
Default Survival Kit Architecture

You're probably thinking, huh? Architecture?

Read on.

I've got a four seat airplane in addition to the single seat RV-3B that I'm building. When I was putting together a survival kit for the four-seater, it ws clear that I only needed one of some things, but for other things, I needed more as the number of passengers increased. Think survival mirror and water as examples.

This led to having a base kit that pretty much lived in the plane, good for me. Then I'd have a separate kit for each additional passenger. What would be nice would be a survival vest for everyone, but I don't have that.

Dave
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  #32  
Old 03-20-2019, 10:48 AM
flybill7 flybill7 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Severna Park, Maryland
Posts: 454
Default Personal Locator Beacon (PLB) - SPOT

I always fly with my SPOT breadcrumb tracker on. The wife loves it - she can see where I am via an online map. It costs $150/year and is worth every penny. I also fly with the aforementioned ACR RESQLINK 406 PLB. It costs $289 with no subscription fee. Less than the cost of gassing up the RV-7 twice. I may not survive the forced landing but at least they'll know where to find me.
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Bill Cloughley
Severna Park, Maryland
RV-7 Builder and Pilot (1,700 hours on RV-7)
http://www.pilotbill.com
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  #33  
Old 03-20-2019, 06:39 PM
Canadian_JOY Canadian_JOY is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 219PB View Post
Just a thought, has anyone ever discussed activating the ELT once you know that you are going to ditch prior to the impact? That way you have some altitude for better range, and in the event it is destroyed in the crash, at least some signal got out. With the new ELT's a lot of info can be transmitted prior to the downing.
I'll take a crack at your question, Paul.

Let's talk 406MHz ELTs to start with... They have a 50 second warm-up time. Yes, that's right. 50 seconds before the first valid 406MHz transmission burst. In a crashed aircraft with a fuel-fed fire, a lot can happen in 50 seconds. With this in mind, if you know you're headed for the cabbage, activating the ELT prior to impact is a good idea. These ELTs are monitored via satellite, and the transmission is quite powerful, so getting through to the satellite is reasonably likely. It may take a while for a satellite to pass overhead if in very rugged terrain, but you'd have to be in a pretty nasty spot for the 406MHz signal to not been heard by a satellite.

Now let's look at the 121.5MHz ELT situation. No satellites are looking for them so you are totally dependent on overflying aircraft to hear your ELT's distress warble. With this being the case, activating the ELT in flight would once again seem like a good way of increasing your odds of being heard. Unfortunately the 121.5MHz ELT's transmit at low power (100mW vice the 5W burst of the 406MHz ELT) so it doesn't take a lot of things working against you before that little signal can't be heard.

In both cases, activating the ELT prior to crash gives at least some probability that a valid distress signal will be transmitted before impact, an impact which might destroy the ELT, its mount, the antenna or its interconnecting coax cable.

There is one caveat that I would throw in here, and that is that some jurisdictions were discussing putting a limit on accepting the validity of moving 406MHz beacons in an attempt to cut down on the number of UPS trucks or similar modes of conveyance setting off resource-wasting false alarms. I don't remember whether this motion was adopted. Suffice it to say that if you've got altitude for a 20 minute glide, it might be a wise thing to leave the ELT activation until the last couple of minutes.

Also be aware that movement of the 406MHz ELT causes the signal to be received by the satellite with some Doppler shift. Since the satellites use Doppler shift (from their own movement across the sky) to triangulate the position of the beacon, movement of the beacon messes with the ability of the satellites to produce an accurate position estimate.

Hope this info helps inform your decision-making process.
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  #34  
Old 03-20-2019, 08:28 PM
219PB 219PB is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Victoria, Tx
Posts: 519
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_JOY View Post
I'll take a crack at your question, Paul.

Let's talk 406MHz ELTs to start with... They have a 50 second warm-up time. Yes, that's right. 50 seconds before the first valid 406MHz transmission burst. In a crashed aircraft with a fuel-fed fire, a lot can happen in 50 seconds. With this in mind, if you know you're headed for the cabbage, activating the ELT prior to impact is a good idea. These ELTs are monitored via satellite, and the transmission is quite powerful, so getting through to the satellite is reasonably likely. It may take a while for a satellite to pass overhead if in very rugged terrain, but you'd have to be in a pretty nasty spot for the 406MHz signal to not been heard by a satellite.

Now let's look at the 121.5MHz ELT situation. No satellites are looking for them so you are totally dependent on overflying aircraft to hear your ELT's distress warble. With this being the case, activating the ELT in flight would once again seem like a good way of increasing your odds of being heard. Unfortunately the 121.5MHz ELT's transmit at low power (100mW vice the 5W burst of the 406MHz ELT) so it doesn't take a lot of things working against you before that little signal can't be heard.

In both cases, activating the ELT prior to crash gives at least some probability that a valid distress signal will be transmitted before impact, an impact which might destroy the ELT, its mount, the antenna or its interconnecting coax cable.

There is one caveat that I would throw in here, and that is that some jurisdictions were discussing putting a limit on accepting the validity of moving 406MHz beacons in an attempt to cut down on the number of UPS trucks or similar modes of conveyance setting off resource-wasting false alarms. I don't remember whether this motion was adopted. Suffice it to say that if you've got altitude for a 20 minute glide, it might be a wise thing to leave the ELT activation until the last couple of minutes.

Also be aware that movement of the 406MHz ELT causes the signal to be received by the satellite with some Doppler shift. Since the satellites use Doppler shift (from their own movement across the sky) to triangulate the position of the beacon, movement of the beacon messes with the ability of the satellites to produce an accurate position estimate.

Hope this info helps inform your decision-making process.
Was not even aware of the potential delay. OK, short final, turn on ELT.
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RV-6A Flying
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  #35  
Old 03-21-2019, 11:34 AM
sandpiper sandpiper is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Independence, OR
Posts: 317
Default

Most of my life, and most of my flying, was in Alaska.

Attended a survival course at one time where the emphasis was on winter survival.

The instructor asked "what would be your most important survival item if you went down and it was 40 degrees F below zero and you knew you were going to be there for awhile"?

Everyone had excellent ideas but nobody came up with the answer he was looking for. He said that nothing mentioned would do us any good if we were not dressed for the temperature including a good pair of mittens and gloves.Without being dressed properly he felt we would not be able to use our other survival gear.

I agree with him. I've never been in a survival situation but have been outside for periods of time in those temperatures. It only takes a few minutes and your bare hands become useless. Starting a fire, for example, would probably not be possible.
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LSRM-A, CFII
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Building an RV-12, N7878H reserved
Flying a Flight Design CTSW
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  #36  
Old 09-23-2019, 09:50 PM
sibriggs sibriggs is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Concord, NH
Posts: 230
Default RV 6 Down

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/r...s-trauma-alert
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  #37  
Old 09-25-2019, 09:23 PM
togaflyer togaflyer is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Fl/Ga
Posts: 766
Default

Get a high visibility vest (orange hunting vest) from Walmart or a sporting good store, a bright LED flashlight that has a blinking mode, and a signal mirror. These items are inexpensive and are very functional. A medium size dry bag is handy to carry all your gear and as a survival bag. Wal-Mart has cheap decent ones. They can also be used as an emergency flotation device, a water carry bag, etc.
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  #38  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:02 AM
Canadian_JOY Canadian_JOY is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,474
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Question for the brain trust... does anybody make/sell a moderately-priced dry bag (for survival kit, first aid kit etc) in a VERY bright color so it is easy to find in the post-crash debris field?

I've been looking for one of these for quite some time and all I can seem to find are dry bags in drab colors.

Thanks!
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  #39  
Old 09-26-2019, 08:47 AM
Ironflight's Avatar
Ironflight Ironflight is offline
VAF Moderator / Line Boy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,830
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_JOY View Post
Question for the brain trust... does anybody make/sell a moderately-priced dry bag (for survival kit, first aid kit etc) in a VERY bright color so it is easy to find in the post-crash debris field?

I've been looking for one of these for quite some time and all I can seem to find are dry bags in drab colors.

Thanks!
Sure - Google “Caving Supplies” - cave explorers use bags that need to keep things dry when completely submerged in muddy water, and they need to be able to find them in muddy caves, so they are often quite bright.

However, I subscribe to the maxim that :if you aren’t wearing it, you don't have it” in a crash. Your first instinct in a crash is to get out of the airplane. If it then catches fire, your survival gear is gone. Of course, you can only wear so much, so a separate “supplemental bag” isn’t a bad idea...just think about having the essentials (like a PLB and other signaling equipment) on your person when flying over wild country.

Paul

[ed. What Paul said!!!! On me over wilderness,etc: https://dougreeves.smugmug.com/Hardw...Survival-Vest/ v/r,dr]
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RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
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Last edited by DeltaRomeo : 09-26-2019 at 08:52 AM.
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  #40  
Old 09-26-2019, 09:31 AM
pvalovich pvalovich is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ridgecrest, CA
Posts: 439
Default Survival Situational Awareness

I have been doing solo 2+ week backpacking trips in the Sierra Wilderness for over 30 years. I've also attended survival training courses in Cold Lake Canada and Death Valley, CA.

Survival priorities are situationally dependent.

In extreme cold your first priority is warmth - first build a fire. You must keep your hands from freezing. After your fire is raging, relax and sort things out. If you have snow/water, you aren't going to die anytime soon.

In the summer desert, first find shelter from the sun (even elemental shelter) and collect a survivable water supply. If you don't have water, you have to decide on whether to set off in search of water, or stay put and bank on a timely rescue.

In most situations where you are uninjured, you can survive for weeks with no/limited food if you have water. Shelter can be built from just about anything (check out the shelters used by the desert Indians).

The ultimate long-term survival tool is your brain and your attitude - you have to want to survive and deal with the hardships of living in the wilderness until rescued.
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