VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

-POSTING RULES
-Advertise in here!
- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

Keep VAF Going
Donate methods

Point your
camera app here
to donate fast.

  #81  
Old 03-29-2018, 04:48 PM
RV7ForMe RV7ForMe is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Europe
Posts: 647
Arrow #49

I was really wishing I never started this whole mess and just ordered the wings from vans and payed the full price. I then politely asked the seller if we cancel the deal. Well, he didn’t want to do that. I guess I can’t really blame him but it really sucked. Any savings I had thought I can make here went overboard and it really looked like I was going to be paying more than new price for old stuff I have never even seen.

In hindsight I am glad that I found out about all of these issues before the crates were picked up. The sea shipping business was HeII for me and I cannot recommend any of it. Most of them simply do not want to deal with small shipments and individuals. The problem is that most of their fees are per ton. So even 400lbs of aluminum will cost the same as the first ton.

Based on this information I went out and asked the guys to ship it via Air-freight to a small regional airport about 20 miles from my house. Sure, it was more money than I had planned with but at this point it was less expensive than sea freight and I had very little alternatives.

I had signed and paid for everything and was just waiting to hear from the shipping guys. I must admit I was very impatient during this process because they went radio silent for a good 10 days after they told me they picked up the crates and had repacked them. I remember when I ordered my first kit from Vans. It was at my door within one week. Just no comparison.

The excuse was that the shipping company’s internet provider was acting up and they couldn’t get back to me. Sure these things happen but it was hard be on the waiting end. What happened then while being good news made my life a bit difficult. I received an email at 11pm my time on a Monday with the shipping itinerary. WHAT?

My crates were already in the country and were arriving at the pick-up airport the next morning at 6am. Essentially I got a 7-hour notice. To my further amusement the final paperwork from the airline said “insurance value: XXX” what apparently means 0$. As you may imagine I barely slept that night. I am certain I paid for full insurance of the value paid.

Next day I had to fill out the customs online form to declare my crates myself. I couldn’t do that before because I needed the paperwork that they had send me only a few hours ago.

As it turns out the smaller the airport and custom office with less volume the better chance you have of dealing with somebody that understands that this is your first time doing any of the paperwork and may be more inclined to help you out with the process. I got really lucky here and the lady at customs explained a few things to me and walked me through it. I came as best prepared as I knew how with the application all filled out and ready for her. She changed a few things and got the bill ready. I paid the taxes and got the stamp saying that I can pick up my crates.

With that paper and stamp in hand I went next door to the airport cargo company. They asked me to sign a paper in English. He said it is just so we can give you the paperwork. However, I read it and it said that I agree that the crates are undamaged and in good order. I politely refused to sign in without seeing the crates. He got a little mad for causing him work but in the end they had to escort me to the crates. They were without any visible damage. So back to the office to sign the paper. After paying an airport fee of 20$ I was ready to pick up the crates. But I was no were close to organizing any kind of pick up so I now had 48 hours to figure that out before they were going to charge me daily storage fees. This would have been much easier if I had known when the scheduled arrival was going to be.


Legally I am not allowed to drive a trailer long enough, nor drive a truck long enough for the crate. Most of them were about 10 inches to short. I found a rule that says I can let something stick out the back with the door open. So that was the plan. I was having a real hard time booking anything close to the size needed because most of them seemed to be booked out but at midnight I found one booked it.

The next day I picked the rental. I was able to convince a friend to come with me on short notice and help me carry the crates. This day everything went smoothly. We secured the load and drove the crates to my airplane factory. FINALLY, home and undamaged! Let’s hope I didn’t buy any bricks…


Everything secured ready to leave the airport.


Arrival. Nothing moved. Just a few more feet to the shop.


Final destination for the crates. They don’t even fit into the shop.


I went to get some dinner before unpacking everything. I really wanted to get this part over with to make sure I have all the parts and in the process check for damage and corrosion that might have occurred from storage / transport.

After opening the long crate. Moment of truth! I SEE AIRPLANE PARTS! YAEHHHH


Everything that was in the long crate.


Oh shoot are these first signs of corrosion? Na Turns out just the paper stained with god knows what.


Big crate open.


As you can see the used kit includes the Newton Deluxe Fuel caps. Nice!


In the end it all worked out. I was able to find all parts listed on the shipping list. I didn’t count rivets and hardware in the bags. I assume it is all there. I pulled off some of the blue film of the skins to see if they would come off. No problem with that. So far I only found corrosion on the steel parts and the fuel level sensors float assembly. But I need to look closed I really only did inventory so far. The spars are still sealed in plastic. Will open that soon.

Here is my Packing list. I color coded it by crates. Before I received the crates I thought this would be of value. So here it is.



To sum this up: I had a very rough time dealing with all of this and I am so very glad it is over. The seller held up his word and the shipping guys did a real good job re-crating everything without any damage. I am happy it all worked out.
Would I do this again? **** NO !!!

- - -

So if you think about saving on buying used: Think about it long and hard. My 0,02 cents are:
I suggest only doing it if you can inspect and collect the kit yourself. Anything else is quite a gamble and you don’t even know what kind of surprises you are in for. I was in over my head and didn’t know what I didn’t know. One thing came after the next. Not a really pleasant experience but it all worked out in the end so I will take it as a win with a lot of learning experiences along the way. I suppose that is what it is all about. I will stay clear of any sea freight in the future for sure!
__________________
VAF dues paid for 2021
RV7-A (N137MX Reserved) - Wings Started...
RV7-A - Rebuild Done - Flying!
Cessna Rocket 210HP - Best dang 172 Ever made! (sold)

Last edited by RV7ForMe : 03-31-2018 at 02:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 05-12-2018, 05:19 PM
RV7ForMe RV7ForMe is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Europe
Posts: 647
Arrow #50

Day one of wing construction!

It has been a while since I worked on anything. I have been at a halt since sometime in October. The empennage was done besides some fiberglass work and after my last application that didn?t dry due to low temperatures I quit working with fiberglass.

After getting my used wing kit into my shop I spend about 4 hours inventorying everything and labelling the hardware containers. Boy that took for ever!

I had some other things to do with school work and wasn?t able or didn?t allow myself to start build anything because I knew it would only distract me.

However last week I decided to start working on the flaps. The plans say it in the manual ?it is the easiest control surface? I figured due to space issues in my shop starting here would be a good idea.

I read some build logs and noticed most guys only take like 10 -15 hours to finish the flaps. I must be really slow because I think it will take me way longer. I already spend about 10 hours and I have only finished all the drilling and fabricating all the parts required.

But let?s start at the beginning. I looked ad DWG 14A and got out all required parts. I deburred all the parts before assembly to make sure I won?t cut myself.


Next step I fabricated the FL-708. 4 of these are required.


I marked the one whole with an ?x? figuring the second whole doesn?t need to be marked as long as I have the center line.


After putting togeter the skeleton of the left and the right flap I spend about 20 minutes looking for the orientation of the right flap (not shown on the plans). Specifically the the FL-705 ribs? But it was very clearly on the drawing. I just didn?t see it right away.


After clecoing the bottom skin I drilled the most aft whole using the skin as a drill guide.


After that I drilled the whole into the ribs from the aft side with a shim made from the trim bundle. I had to pay attention while drilling this to stay within edge distance. It helped me to clamp everything down while drilling.


The plans call for a number 30# whole in this place so I drilled the whole again with a number #30


After that I drilled all the rest of the wholes of the bottom skin and the skeleton.

After fabricating the FL-706B I attached it to the FL-704 end rib. One whole, the one shown in this picture is already pre punched. With that I lined it up and drilled the rest of the wholes.


Here all wholes drilled.


Drilling the top row of wholes that goes through the end rib, spar and the FL-706A was a bit tricky because it was hard to aligning the wholes and clamping everything down and drilling the wholes, but I got it done.
__________________
VAF dues paid for 2021
RV7-A (N137MX Reserved) - Wings Started...
RV7-A - Rebuild Done - Flying!
Cessna Rocket 210HP - Best dang 172 Ever made! (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 05-12-2018, 05:22 PM
RV7ForMe RV7ForMe is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Europe
Posts: 647
Arrow #51

Now that the FL-706B wholes are drilled I enlarged the one originaly prepunched whole to ? in.


Now that the whole is big enough I used a bolt to secure the platenut and aligned it to my liking. Then drilled the 2 rivet wholes with a #40 drill bit.


I cut the angle pretty conservatively so they didn?t match 100%. I clecoed it to the FL-706B to the FL-706A and sanded them down until they were flush and nice looking. Edge distance wasn?t a problem with these parts.


All that was left to do was to attach the top skin and make sure everything is straight. It is. Not sure what I would have done if it wasn?t. So I went ahed and final drilled all the remaining wholes. Disassembled everything. That was it for now. Next step is to deburr all the wholes and dimple as required. Then prime?. Urg I haven?t primed anything in over half a year!
__________________
VAF dues paid for 2021
RV7-A (N137MX Reserved) - Wings Started...
RV7-A - Rebuild Done - Flying!
Cessna Rocket 210HP - Best dang 172 Ever made! (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 05-31-2018, 06:05 PM
RV7ForMe RV7ForMe is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Europe
Posts: 647
Arrow #52

Here we go!

I finally had some time to do a lot of deburring after final drilling al the wholes on both flaps. Bah. Deburring sucks! I totally forgot how time consuming and tedious it is. Anyway, once that was done I had to find a day with good weather and relativlely dry weather for my first priming sessions in a very long time. First I had to get the shop ready and do all the "safety" things related to priming. New filters and such. I also got some new gloves specially for the use with aceton as I wipe the parts with aceton I noticed that I go through gloves pretty quickly even the thicker ones that are not nitril. The chart said they will take 120 min of aceton. I felt the cold through them after 1 minute so I am not sure if that is just the chemical nature of aceton vaporizing making my hands cold. If any of you want to chime in I would welcome it.

Ok back to the flaps. I was running low on light and my priming session didnt go as smooth as the last one I remember. I had the fan ope to wide and used a lot of paint in the beginning. So I ran out and had to mix up some new paint. All in all was ok. Slight orange peeling and ran out on the outside skin but that is not that big of a deal as I can alway paint that later. I just made sure I hit where the rivet wholes are.

Note to self. I will never again rush paint prep. It just wont turn out as nice as I am used to and will bug me later...

Here is picture.


Since I still don't have one of these vice grip style dimple tools that are almost 100? I do this...


Works fine. Just a little more work.


These were the last dimples and really anything before starting to rivet.
I had not set any rivets since the empennage was done. So I wasn't sure if I still knew how to but as it turns out this skill is like riding a bike. I did start with pretty low air pressure and worked my way up.

Ready to start Riveting!


Looking good if I may say so myself...


I dimpled the rib and the nutplate and installed the rivet. Worked great.


Next was the doubler FL-706B with the long flush rivet that goes into the other side of the nutplate. No problem for the hand squeezer


Closeup of me riveting the rest of the universal head rivets on the FL-706B to the FL-705 end rib


I kind of debated if If I was putting the shop head on the wrong side with this angle being the thicker material. I decided to do it this way. If I ever need to unrivet anything drilling these rivets from the outside will be easier. If anything I also like the looks better and maybe even aerodynamics. airflow will flow over most of these rivets at some point...


Moving on to the bottom skin and the inner ribs FL-704 with the spacers.
__________________
VAF dues paid for 2021
RV7-A (N137MX Reserved) - Wings Started...
RV7-A - Rebuild Done - Flying!
Cessna Rocket 210HP - Best dang 172 Ever made! (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 05-31-2018, 06:44 PM
RV7ForMe RV7ForMe is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Europe
Posts: 647
Arrow #53

Here is a close up of the rivet holding the shimm


The plans are a little vague on what to do and in what order so I decided to put the whole flap except for the rear spar together with a clecoe in every whole to prevent any room for twist due to movement.


Spend the next 3 hours on the floor because that is where I decided to put the Jig and used my flush rivet set to rivet the line of rivets that on the under side of the flap that has the overlap of the bottom and top skin.


I used the 3' Yoke as the many builders do as a bucking bar. Worked great.


Then I went up the ribs on both sides. According to my rivet checker the rivet called for in the plans for the wholes that are both skins and a rib are to short. I went half a size longer. Somewhere here I had to drill out my first rivet due to overdriving the rivet... Drilling out rivet also still works. I am happy!


Opened up the last two wholes for a MK-319BS rivet as called in the plans.


The top side of the inboard end rib is no problem. The bottom however is really tight due to the nutplate and the FL706B. I dinged the bottom skin here. I am pissed but there was nothing I could do about it. I think I made the mistake before even shooting the rivet. I guess there is a bit of space between the FL-706B and the skin and while hitting that with the rivet gut I just had to mark it up. Well It is the bottom side and this can be filled. But I still dislike it.

The outboard end rib is much easier as the rib are facing outward. This is an easy job with the squeezer. Except for the really last ones. A no whole yoke would be nice. Since I do not have one I will use the indirect rivet method once the rest of the flap is complete.


Rivets set and done.


Next step I kind of deviated from the plans. They call for putting in the rear spar and first attaching the blind rivets and then the hinge rivets and the end ribs last. I saw no advantage to that. The contrary. with the hinge, spar and skin being countersunk with dimples they are to me the ones that requiere perfect fit. If I leave those to last I run the risk of pillowing. I had some of that on the much smaller hinger of the left elevator at the trim tab attach and it didn't make me happy. So for me it was first make sure the dimples are resting nicely in the countersinks and the hinge and then I went ahed and used one clecoe in every remaining whole.


My knees hurt. Not sure why It took me this long to lift up the flap jig onto a table. Used the squeezer to rivet these rivets real nice and slow making sure I did not ding the very soft hinge. This is where I called it a night at right around midnight. Almost 5 hours of riveting... Yea I know I am slow!
__________________
VAF dues paid for 2021
RV7-A (N137MX Reserved) - Wings Started...
RV7-A - Rebuild Done - Flying!
Cessna Rocket 210HP - Best dang 172 Ever made! (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 06-01-2018, 07:01 AM
AndyRV7's Avatar
AndyRV7 AndyRV7 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hudson County, NJ
Posts: 1,092
Default

Looks like very nice work!
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 06-01-2018, 09:50 AM
RV7ForMe RV7ForMe is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Europe
Posts: 647
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRV7 View Post
Looks like very nice work!
Thanks Andy
__________________
VAF dues paid for 2021
RV7-A (N137MX Reserved) - Wings Started...
RV7-A - Rebuild Done - Flying!
Cessna Rocket 210HP - Best dang 172 Ever made! (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 06-09-2018, 04:13 PM
RV7ForMe RV7ForMe is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Europe
Posts: 647
Arrow #54

When I got back to the factory I first finished up all the rivets along the hinge (bottom side of the flap).


I purposely changed the order of when to rivet the ribs with the pop rivets. I decided to do this after the hinge was riveted on because I had such a hard time with the 3 layer sandwich on the empennage. So far so good.
Now, in oder for the top pop rivet to get in there I had to bend ou the curled FL-701 skin for my pop riveter to reach in there. For that to not cause any bending marks in the skin I took off all the clecoes from the FL-701 to the FL-703 front spar.


- - -
I did all the pop rivets, or so I thought...
- - -

Turn it around and put all the clecoes back in there...


I used this bucking bar and made it better suitable with the sticking rubber parts to make sure no marks on the material.


Actually I over drove the very first rivet I set... So that one had to come out. I had the pressure on the gun a that to hight.


Not sure how I missed this... but I did. I really thought I had all the pop rivets in there but I missed the rivets attached to the FL-705. But since I had already put in there the solid rivets mating the FL-706A/B getting the pop rivets in there would be complicated.


YAP. That totally could have been avoided. I managed to pull the rivet but it wasn't all the way down.


So I had to drill the rivet out. Pop rivets are kind of hard to drill out especially this one because I didn't have straight access from above because the skin was over the top of the rivet. I had to use a very long #40 drill and work really slow. I finally got it but I had to push it out bending the corner lip of the FL-705.
Note that the rivet was just stuck in there but it wasn't pulled yet.
__________________
VAF dues paid for 2021
RV7-A (N137MX Reserved) - Wings Started...
RV7-A - Rebuild Done - Flying!
Cessna Rocket 210HP - Best dang 172 Ever made! (sold)

Last edited by RV7ForMe : 06-09-2018 at 04:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 06-09-2018, 04:18 PM
RV7ForMe RV7ForMe is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Europe
Posts: 647
Arrow #55

So on the second attempt I had to push the lip up while pulling the pop riveter.

Worked out in the end but cost me about 30 min and was completely unnecessary. Wont be doing that again on the right flap!


Other view


The last few rivets were to tight for anything but the indirect riveting technique. This is my version and it works well for me...


LEFT FLAP DONE! Also first part of the wing kit!
__________________
VAF dues paid for 2021
RV7-A (N137MX Reserved) - Wings Started...
RV7-A - Rebuild Done - Flying!
Cessna Rocket 210HP - Best dang 172 Ever made! (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 06-17-2018, 11:54 PM
jcarne's Avatar
jcarne jcarne is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Worland, Wyoming
Posts: 1,983
Default

Your work is looking great! Keep up the good work!
__________________
Jereme Carne
PPL
RV-7A Flying as of 03/2021
Exempt but gladly paying!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:04 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.