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  #1  
Old 11-24-2016, 02:42 AM
CubedRoot's Avatar
CubedRoot CubedRoot is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ooltewah, TN.
Posts: 583
Default Should I drill this rivet out?

So I riveted my first actual structure of tail kit tonight, and things went pretty good, save for one rivet I am questioning.

I was riveting the HS-412PP to the rear spar assembly, and my squeezer must have been offset or something, and I ended up slightly denting the top of the manufactured head of the rivet:



I haven't drilled it out yet, so I figured I would ask the collective knowledge here on the forums if I should or not.

Should I attempt to drill this sucker out and replace it? Its a AN470AD4-7 rivet, and I don't have any "oops rivets" yet. I am semi-confident I could drill it out without enlarging the hole, but if there is no need to, I will leave it.

Here is a link to the full size photo for better resolution of the rivet:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/WG...w2532-h1898-no
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RV-7 Slider -
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  #2  
Old 11-24-2016, 03:26 AM
Hornet2008 Hornet2008 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 308
Default

For peace of mind, it takes only a moment to drill out and replace. Then build on without any worry.
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  #3  
Old 11-24-2016, 03:56 AM
WAM120RV WAM120RV is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Coventry. England
Posts: 616
Default Smiley

Hi

Rivets like this with a big smiley are very prone to cracking and breaking, as this is loaded not only on the spar stiffener but also on the bracket I would replace it.

Bear in mind that smiley has moved the centre dot on the rivet so this will need re aligning with a smaller drill. make sure you just take the head off and punch it out to avoid enlarging the hole.
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In completion stage of Loehle P5151
Built and now Flying G.BVLR Vans RV4
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  #4  
Old 11-24-2016, 06:46 AM
Marc Bourget Marc Bourget is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Stockton, California
Posts: 338
Default

MIL-STD-403C

Section: 5.2.7.5 [u]Marring of the manufactured head[u]. A cut or ring caused by the riveting equipment used shall be acceptable on non-flush rivets providing the depth of the cut is not greater than one-fourth of the head height. Cut or ringed flush rivets shall not be acceptable.

FYI (I'd replace the rivet)

Last edited by Marc Bourget : 11-24-2016 at 06:47 AM. Reason: corrected typo
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  #5  
Old 11-24-2016, 06:58 AM
Marc Bourget Marc Bourget is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Stockton, California
Posts: 338
Default

On upset head location.

MIL-STD-40007(1)

5.3.3.4 [u]Upset head location[u]. Unless otherwise specified in the engineering drawing, the upset head shall be located using the following order of precedence:

a. Against the thicker sheet.
b. Against the harder material.
c. On either side when thickness and hardness are identical.

FWIW

mjb

Last edited by Marc Bourget : 11-25-2016 at 12:39 AM. Reason: inserted omitted "d"
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  #6  
Old 11-24-2016, 08:25 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 6,322
Default practice, practice, practice, execute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CubedRoot View Post
Should I attempt to drill this sucker out and replace it? Its a AN470AD4-7 rivet, and I don't have any "oops rivets" yet. I am semi-confident I could drill it out without enlarging the hole, but if there is no need to, I will leave it.
Yes drill it out, but practice by seeing some rivets in a spare/scrap piece of .063 and removing per the section 5 instructions. They are pretty good. Now is the time to begin this skill development. Never do something like this the first time on the plane. Learn to walk the drill bit on the head. A few revs, then check, walk it a little check again. Many times the hole gets too big to snap off the head with the punch, but an automatic center punch from HF will do the trick. I took my HF punch and spun the tip with a drill against the grinder until it was #40 drill size. Happy Building.

Get an assortment of NAS rivets (aka oops) now, but I thought they were only flush style not universal heads.
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  #7  
Old 11-24-2016, 09:29 AM
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Louavul Louavul is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rio Communities, NM
Posts: 167
Default

Get some rivet "socks", https://www.usatco.com/item/SNAPSOC+...ivet-Set-Caps/
They helped me, especially when using an offset set.
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  #8  
Old 11-24-2016, 09:29 AM
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wirejock wirejock is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 4,774
Default Drilling rivets

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillL View Post
Yes drill it out, but practice by seeing some rivets in a spare/scrap piece of .063 and removing per the section 5 instructions. They are pretty good. Now is the time to begin this skill development. Never do something like this the first time on the plane. Learn to walk the drill bit on the head. A few revs, then check, walk it a little check again. Many times the hole gets too big to snap off the head with the punch, but an automatic center punch from HF will do the trick. I took my HF punch and spun the tip with a drill against the grinder until it was #40 drill size. Happy Building.

Get an assortment of NAS rivets (aka oops) now, but I thought they were only flush style not universal heads.
Agree. Practice. Search VAF for tips. Personally I prefer centerpunching the head then drilling about 50% with a tiny bit. Then I drill just the factory head using the correct bit in a drill stop so the bit can't go deep enough to hit any structural parts. After that, snap off the head. Use a backing bar with a hole in it (made a set) and punch out the rivet.
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I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
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  #9  
Old 11-24-2016, 09:34 AM
cmmguy cmmguy is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 25
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillL View Post
Yes drill it out, but practice by seeing some rivets in a spare/scrap piece of .063 and removing per the section 5 instructions. They are pretty good. Now is the time to begin this skill development. Never do something like this the first time on the plane. Learn to walk the drill bit on the head. A few revs, then check, walk it a little check again. Many times the hole gets too big to snap off the head with the punch, but an automatic center punch from HF will do the trick. I took my HF punch and spun the tip with a drill against the grinder until it was #40 drill size. Happy Building.

Get an assortment of NAS rivets (aka oops) now, but I thought they were only flush style not universal heads.
Good advice to practice. Does anyone make a drill guide that clamps over and centers on the rivet to be drilled out to error proof the drill out?
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  #10  
Old 11-24-2016, 09:38 AM
Mudfly Mudfly is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Alpharetta, Ga
Posts: 218
Default Would this work?

Looking at your attention to detail (painted hinge bracket holes after drilling...I can relate) , I don't think you will sleep well at night leaving this rivet as is.
However, due to the messed up rivet head, getting the bit centered and drilling through the middle of the rivet could be difficult. Like you mentioned, there is a possibility you may damage the surrounding material and end up with a hole that is less than desirable.
This idea is totally non-standard so hopefully more experienced builders can comment. Would it be possible to drill the rivet from the shop head side? (I haven't actually tried this). Possibly get the spar mounted nicely in a drill press, if available, and begin drilling with a small (1/16"?) bit. Once the bit broke though the factory head side, you would see where you stand regarding hole alignment. Then it may be possible to go back to factory head and use this hole (if close to center) to remove the head and continue to remove rivet normally.
Again, this is not standard, but though I'd put it out for discussion.
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