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-   -   Poll, What do you want the 15 to be? (https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=198185)

FresnoR 08-12-2021 04:15 PM

Poll, What do you want the 15 to be?
 
So many threads out there, let's take a poll:

Jaypratt 08-12-2021 04:44 PM

4 seats?.
 
You rarely see a C180 land with 4 people.. the cabin usually has 1 or two people, and their gear..
The 180 is the standard to go by. If Van’s takes a look at the C180 and improves on it. They will have a great airplane.
Let it lose 2 cylinders, and ,, 400 pounds. Keep the size and looks. It will still load 1000 pounds. 60 gallons of gas. 2 people and gear. Winner!

tgmillso 08-12-2021 05:07 PM

“Some people say, "Give the customers what they want." But that's not my approach. Our job is to figure out what they're going to want before they do. I think Henry Ford once said, "If I'd asked customers what they wanted, they would have told me, 'A faster horse!'" People don't know what they want until you show it to them. That's why I never rely on market research. Our task is to read things that are not yet on the page.”
-Steve Jobs


I guess we all get a kick out of speculating, but frankly this type of market research is akin to populist politics rather than having leadership that history will look back on as being visionary.

Tom
RV-7, that wishes it was a zero emissions battery electric derivative.

wirejock 08-12-2021 06:18 PM

Poll
 
Sorry, but I suspect the decisions have been made.

Brian_G 08-12-2021 06:30 PM

I wonder how representative the current Vans Air Force population is of the market for the RV15 anyway. Most of us here have already self selected into fast sport planes vs big tire high wings, so do they try to appeal to their current customer base or expand into the STOL crowd that would otherwise be over on the Kitfox and Rans forums about now?

BillL 08-12-2021 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgmillso (Post 1547579)
“Some people say, "Give the customers what they want." But that's not my approach. Our job is to figure out what they're going to want before they do. I think Henry Ford once said, "If I'd asked customers what they wanted, they would have told me, 'A faster horse!'" People don't know what they want until you show it to them. That's why I never rely on market research. Our task is to read things that are not yet on the page.”
-Steve Jobs

This was my experience completely!! Steve Jobs got it right, why haven't others?
People don't buy things - they buy functionality. Add functionality at lower total cost and you have a replacement product. It is not the magic people might think, nor is it quick. Not even electronics.

The average life of a car is 18 yrs. So, if one wanted California to be an all electric car population on the roads, and only electrics were sold beginning today, 50% of cars would be electric in 18 yrs.

Utah-Jay 08-12-2021 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian_G (Post 1547589)
I wonder how representative the current Vans Air Force population is of the market for the RV15 anyway. Most of us here have already self selected into fast sport planes vs big tire high wings, so do they try to appeal to their current customer base or expand into the STOL crowd that would otherwise be over on the Kitfox and Rans forums about now?

You expand business by reaching to new customers, so reaching beyond the typical RV crowd would be expanding the business I should think. Some of the RV crowd will buy into the 15 though for sure. I registered for the site because of the RV-15

Grum.man 08-12-2021 07:42 PM

Logic would say it will be a 2 place and not a stol plane. Now it's just a matter of how big of an engine they feel is right and how fast. My guess is they will skip the Rotax size for 150+ hp based on the bulk of their current customers. Probably start with a 2 place to feel the market out then bring a 4 place later.

scsmith 08-12-2021 07:50 PM

A poll of extremes makes it hard to get a good measure of how people feel.

Instead of just '2 seat' vs '4 seat', what about 2+2, meaning back seat big enough for 2 kids, but easy to take out to put lots of gear in instead?

Instead of 'as fast as the rest' vs 'low and slow', what about an in-between? Fast enough to be able to get to the back country efficiently from some distance away, and slow enough to be able to use a lot of the back country once you get there, but probably not gravel bars and sand dunes? So, something in the 130 kt range for cruise, and under 50 for landing.

It is this middle ground that seems to me to fill a niche that is not well served right now. Want a super-capable big hauler? Buy a C-180. Want to land on gravel bars? Buy one of the multitude of cub-clones.

But, what do I know?

Toobuilder 08-12-2021 07:57 PM

I "want" the 15 to be a faster, easier to build Rocket...

But thats irrelevant. The 15 is whatever it is.


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