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Dual Pmag issues from owners?

S

Sig600

Well Known Member
Made the desicion/order to go with dual Pmags from Lycon.

Anyone out there with dual Pmags have anything to report as far as troubles or issues? Any issues with starting? Dangers cranking on less than a full battery? Anything you would change?


Unrelated, any reason to go with a dual alternator or dual battery setup with a G3X panel?
 
Sig600 said:
....Anyone out there with dual Pmags have anything to report as far as troubles or issues? Any issues with starting? Dangers cranking on less than a full battery? Anything you would change? ...
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I have had dual Pmags for about a year and a half now, and they work as advertised. No issues whatsoever. One unforeseen benefit was how smoothly it now idles at about 600 RPM - you can almost see the tips going around.
 
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Not a dual setup but I sure have enjoyed my single Pmag along with a Mag. Starts like a car every time...nuff said for me.
 
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Dual

Dual p-mag user for 300+ hours on O-360 firing NGKBR8ES auto plugs. Wouldn't change a thing.
 
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DeltaRomeo said:
I have had dual Pmags for about a year and a half now, and they work as advertised. No issues whatsoever. One unforeseen benefit was how smoothly it now idles at about 600 RPM - you can almost see the tips going around.
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+1

... and, when doing the mag check at runup, the only way I can tell one is shut down is the EGT change - RPM does not move one bit.

2 airplanes with dual Pmags... Very happy customer.
 
P-mags

Been flying 3 years with a dual p-mag setup, no issues what so ever, starts first time every time, runs smooth all the way down to 600rpm as Doug said. No way would I even consider anything else.
 
+1

was running last year when I bought my RV4 with one PMag, one EMag. I had PMag rebuilt and EMag rebuilt/upgraded to PMag. Started last weekend after sitting for seven months - first blade! Smooth as silk.

Brad was great to deal with too. I also bought the auto ignition wires from him, I'm switching to auto plugs.

Here's a pic - wiring not dressed yet so be nice :)

taq006.jpg
 
Sig,

I have 180 hours on my dual Pmag set up. I did have one of the screws that bind the wires come loose. I don't love how they have the wiring attach. at some point I would like to improve the connections. I don't know what solution I would use, but if anyone has any ideas I am all ears.
 
Can some of the existing users that moved from mag to Pmag provide some tangible data? Affect on fuel consumption, perceived power gain and perhaps temps.
I have heard that we should expect higher CHTs, if so by how much did your CHT raise compare to regular meg?

Thanks in advance for all info.
 
apkp777 said:
Sig,

I have 180 hours on my dual Pmag set up. I did have one of the screws that bind the wires come loose. I don't love how they have the wiring attach. at some point I would like to improve the connections. I don't know what solution I would use, but if anyone has any ideas I am all ears.
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Funny timing. I was talking to Brad today about the connector debate and he said the early series ignitions had a computer style connector and they got a lot of complaints about interferences with other engine components. Thus they went to the current connector because of its low profile.

allbee said:
I love mine. take your wires and solder the ends and than put into the connections worked for me.
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This is not a good idea. The hardened wire will vibrate and break. What you want to do is put two layers of shrink tubing around the bundle of wires and secure that with the supplied adel clamp. This will keep the wires from moving. 300 hours and the only broken wire I have had is the one I soldered. Clipped the solder off and haven't had a problem since.

Bavafa said:
Can some of the existing users that moved from mag to Pmag provide some tangible data? Affect on fuel consumption, perceived power gain and perhaps temps.
I have heard that we should expect higher CHTs, if so by how much did your CHT raise compare to regular meg?

Thanks in advance for all info.
Click to expand...
Check the E-mag web site. Typically you can expect ~1.5 GPH improvement at the same power settings with a dual P-mag setup. Or you can step up the power, go faster, and burn the same amount as you would with mags.

As for the CHT's, you can program the P-mags to act exactly like a standard mag or modify the "B" curve to be anything you like. I suggest people start with the jumper in, forcing them to the "A" curve. Once the engine is broken in and they know what their CHT's are going to do, then you can remove the jumpers and run on the "B" curve.

I strongly recommend you bring the serial connection wires into the cockpit and terminate them in with two separate DB-9 connectors. That way you can plug your laptop into them and "tune" the P-mags, if needed. It also makes it easier to intall an EICommander later on, if you want one.
 
You guys with dual P-mags running auto plugs. Do you have an auto plug sized compression tester or do you remove the plug adaptors and use the standard aircraft compression tester fitting? How hard is it to remove those adaptors?

Im running 1 P-mag, 1 Slick and use the slick plugs to test compression and have not had to remove the P-mag auto plug adaptors yet. Just curious.

Thx
 
I'm at 810 hrs in roughly 4.5 years of flying... I like 'em. Dual Pmags on an O-360 with NGK plugs.

The first 250-ish hours were a pain in the butt; I felt a bit like a beta tester with numerous failures and returns to the factory. Brad and company took care of it and they seem to have found their happy place... the last 500+ hours have been trouble free.
 
Our aeroplane is the second in the UK with dual P-Mags - our LAA (EAA) have a hatred of anything new or different, however they were persuaded !

Having watched all the initial problems of E and P mags and having met and discussed things with Brad at Sun n Fun on several occasions, it is really good to see the product maturing and being lauded by more and more pilots.

Our installation and operation has been perfect - once I took the impulse spacer off - Doh !

Starts cold or hot without a problem, runs very smooth, idles well etc.

I just enjoy flying a wonderful aeroplane and am not interested in whether it does a tenth of a knot more, or sips a pint of gas less - I am looking at clouds whiz by, seeing them upside down as I roll over them, go out to get an expensive cup of tea and bacon sandwich etc etc.

To sum up

They are simple

They are cost effective

They are well supported

They run your engine smooth and sweet

What more could you ask for ?
 
I can give some comparison data. I started with two Slicks. I changed out one and saved 1 gph in cruise, got better starting and smoother idle, but the idle only improved when I shut off the remaining Slick! No real performance increase, however. Added the second P-Mag, now have smooth idle down to 450 rpm, saved maybe another .2 gph, and gained 4 mph in cruise. I had to send the first one back for upgrades, but no problems with either since then. They work as advertised and the support is great.

Bob
 
Remove adapters

RV8R999 said:
You guys with dual P-mags running auto plugs. Do you have an auto plug sized compression tester or do you remove the plug adaptors and use the standard aircraft compression tester fitting? How hard is it to remove those adaptors?
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Everything comes out. I use a larger deep-well socket that grips just the adapter for removal. Once out, I can easily separate the two.
 
allbee said:
I disagree. anyway on my whole airplane I soldered everything. I crimped a few things and the only wiring problem I've ever had was the crimped, done with the right equipment. I guess you need to know how to solder.

oh and I tinted the wire and let the solder go up inside the insulation. I also do soldering on wiring in cars. Never an issue, but the crimped, issues with corrosion like you wouldn't believe.
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This is exactly backwards with what every expert on the subject preaches. Crimped connections done correctly with quality terminals and proper crimpers are absolutely the most durable way to terminate wires for aircraft. Soldered connections are subject to breakage from vibrations and not recommended.
 
N520TX said:
Everything comes out. I use a larger deep-well socket that grips just the adapter for removal. Once out, I can easily separate the two.
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RV8R999 said:
ok so your remove the auto plug and adaptor as a unit... Thanks!
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Yes, use a socket on the adapter and remove both the auto plug and the adapter together. If you need to separate the adapter from the auto plug, use two sockets and all is good.

As posted on a prior thread, when installing the adapters, put anti-seize on the threads of both the auto plug and the adapter, hand thread the auto plug on the adapter and start the adapter in the cylinder. Then torque the auto plug per the instructions. Do NOT try to torque the adapter with or without the auto plug installed. Torqueing the adapter without the plug installed will crush it.
 
tmbg said:
This is exactly backwards with what every expert on the subject preaches. Crimped connections done correctly with quality terminals and proper crimpers are absolutely the most durable way to terminate wires for aircraft. Soldered connections are subject to breakage from vibrations and not recommended.
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Yep, you rarely see a ring terminal or Cannon plug with solder cups anymore. Crimping is the aviation standard.

For the wire terminations at the Pmag connectors, I used a small ferrule fastened with a crimper used on cannon plug pins - the type that crimps from 4 sides... This gave the setscrew in the connector something to bite into.
 
Toobuilder said:
Yep, you rarely see a ring terminal or Cannon plug with solder cups anymore. Crimping is the aviation standard.

For the wire terminations at the Pmag connectors, I used a small ferrule fastened with a crimper used on cannon plug pins - the type that crimps from 4 sides... This gave the setscrew in the connector something to bite into.
Click to expand...

That's probably the best way to terminate these... good thing I have a DMC crimper :D
 
Fuel consumption data

Bavafa said:
Can some of the existing users that moved from mag to Pmag provide some tangible data? Affect on fuel consumption, perceived power gain and perhaps temps.
I have heard that we should expect higher CHTs, if so by how much did your CHT raise compare to regular meg?

Thanks in advance for all info.
Click to expand...

I flew round trip to OSH from Seattle with my friend, both of us in RV7s with O-360 with Harzell BA prop and one person on board. We flew virtually together the whole trip. He has Fuel injection and two Slick Mags. I have a Carb and two Pmags. I stay rich of peak with my carb. The net difference after 25.5 hrs of flying was that I burned 19.9 gal less with a carb and dual Pmags. We cruised at about 160mph. He ran some lean of peak and some rich of peak.
On a previous trip when I had Slick mags I flew with a friend who had an RV8 with fuel injection and LightSpeed Ignition I believe. I do not have data from this trip but at all the fuel stops he burned less fuel than I did with a Carb and two Slicks.
Regarding CHTs, I have not noticed much difference. Regarding power, it feels more powerful on take off with dual Pmags but that may be because I just spent a bunch of money on them :)
 
John - this is a good example of mission representative operational data. Did you fly the same altitudes? What is the difference in GW of the two planes as you were both loaded for the trip? Any significant modification or configuration differences between the two airplanes other than ignition source such as wheel pants, cowl, wingtips, fairings, etc..?
 
RV8R999 said:
John - this is a good example of mission representative operational data. Did you fly the same altitudes? What is the difference in GW of the two planes as you were both loaded for the trip? Any significant modification or configuration differences between the two airplanes other than ignition source such as wheel pants, cowl, wingtips, fairings, etc..?
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The planes are identical except one is a slider and one a tip up. We were loaded similarly and flew together the whole trip except one leg where we seperated due to poor visibility but had the same target destination. Oh, we also have differnt paint jobs:)
 
The take home message for me is that the claims for a reduction in fuel burn with EI over standard Mags are probably real in a long cruise. YMMV.
 
I Had a Problem - But I Love Them

I had a problem the first summer with mine. I put another cooling tube to that pmag and really sealed up my plenum - which lowered my already good CHTs another 20 degrees.

Haven't had a problem since. I've been running an experiment where I ran the NGK Iridium (EIX) plugs on one and regular NGKs on the other - amazing difference when running lean. I am looking forward to running both pmags on EIXs.

In my opinion running auto plugs is a huge advantage.

Hans
 
nucleus said:
I had a problem the first summer with mine. I put another cooling tube to that pmag and really sealed up my plenum - which lowered my already good CHTs another 20 degrees.

Haven't had a problem since. I've been running an experiment where I ran the NGK Iridium (EIX) plugs on one and regular NGKs on the other - amazing difference when running lean. I am looking forward to running both pmags on EIXs.

In my opinion running auto plugs is a huge advantage.

Hans
Click to expand...

There are a lot of stories regarding P-mag issues early on and a number of the early adopters were very lucky. The good news is that the root cause of the issues were identified and resolved. E-mag (the company) has not made a change to the P-mag software or hardware in over two years (or is it now three years?) and the reported issues have dropped off to the point where it is unusual if someone reports a problem.

Hans, I look forward to hearing about your experience with the EIX plugs! I?m still running the cheap NGK?s and simply replace them every year.
 
nucleus said:
I had a problem the first summer with mine. I put another cooling tube to that pmag and really sealed up my plenum - which lowered my already good CHTs another 20 degrees.

Haven't had a problem since. I've been running an experiment where I ran the NGK Iridium (EIX) plugs on one and regular NGKs on the other - amazing difference when running lean. I am looking forward to running both pmags on EIXs.

In my opinion running auto plugs is a huge advantage.

Hans
Click to expand...

Been running EIX plugs since Feb 2009, about 100 hrs a yr, ZERO wear, still cheap enough to toss a new set in once a yr. :)
 
RV7AV8R said:
Regarding CHTs, I have not noticed much difference. Regarding power, it feels more powerful on take off with dual Pmags but that may be because I just spent a bunch of money on them :)
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I had my right LASAR magneto fail back in June, and decided to replace the LASAR system with two P-Mags.

I have the same "feeling" and think I am getting a little better power on take off. I've also been tracking the centerline better too, but maybe that's not the Pmags.:D

So far I like them a lot.
 
Any issues for those of you running auto plugs? Heard stories of the plug wires coming off in flight. Like the idea of cheap plugs with a hotter spark, but I like the magneto wires being screwed on even more.
 
no problems here

Sig600 said:
Any issues for those of you running auto plugs? Heard stories of the plug wires coming off in flight. Like the idea of cheap plugs with a hotter spark, but I like the magneto wires being screwed on even more.
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I have auto plugs on top with my light speed EI. I always check at oil change, but have not found a wire moved in 150 hrs. Some people talk about 'burping' them when you put them on. I don't do anything fancy, just wiggle it around as I press it on. No issues.
 
The devil is in the details

Sig600 said:
Any issues for those of you running auto plugs? Heard stories of the plug wires coming off in flight. Like the idea of cheap plugs with a hotter spark, but I like the magneto wires being screwed on even more.
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Hey Space Man Spiff, [love the avatar]
Like Steve mentioned above, the secret to getting automotive spark plug wires to stay on is to provide an escape path of the air which gets trapped inside the boot of the plug wire. [aka burping] If you do not do this, air gets trapped [under pressure] inside the boot. Time and vibration will cause the boot to slowly work it's way off of the spark plug.
Just had to deal with a customer who did his own "tune up" on a 1995 Ford van. 3 of his 6 spark plug wires had come loose because he did not know to do this.
Charlie
PS Watch out for the dreaded Gurl!
 
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ok so how did you provide an escape path? I have not heard this was a problem with auto-plugs..which I am using.
 
Auto vs. Aviation plugs

Hey SIG600,

I went with the aviation plugs thinking the me thing - screw on would be better because of the security.

During the build process for one reason or another I had to remove and replace the plug cap many times.

Well, fast forward to about 20 hours of flight time....I go out for my engine run up before takeoff and find that I am dropping a cylinder! Scrub that flight!

I take the cowling off, start to remove the cap on the #1 cyl and what do I find? The cap cut the outer shield of my plug wire like a pipe cutter!

I plan to run aviation plugs until I have to replace them and then I will switch to auto plugs.

Other then that I do love the pmags.

Regards,
 
Sig600 said:
Any issues for those of you running auto plugs? Heard stories of the plug wires coming off in flight. Like the idea of cheap plugs with a hotter spark, but I like the magneto wires being screwed on even more.
Click to expand...

No issues in over 300 hours with dual P-mags. They clip on and seem to stay on, even with burping them.
 
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