No Paint! Queries about bare aluminium RVs

Hi Guys, looks like I might consider doing a shiny RV.

I have a couple of questions:
1) What product & method do you use as polish for your Shiny RV?
2) How do you polish where you?ve added paint trim details? Use the same product over the paint details?
3) Does the polish offer corrosion resistance?
4) Is it possible to paint later if you started out with a shiny RV using the polish?
5) Is it really such an effort to keep it shiny?
6) Is it worth it? Did you start shiny and then opted to paint?

If you can answer any of these questions or offer an opinion it would help.

Thanks in advance.

Kind Regards

Rudi

Rudi,I'm sure you'll be hearing from people who have actually polished their planes, which I never have. Until then, here are a few thoughts:

1. There are a number of polishing products on the market, but Nuvite seems
to be widely used in general aviation: http://www.nuvitechemical.com

2. Polishing in and of itself does nothing to protect the metal. In fact, by
definition polishing removes a small amount of material; think of it as
sanding through successively finer grits. You start with a "rough" surface
and gradually knock off the high spots until you have a surface which is
theoretically flat at a microscopic level. That's when you get that beautiful
shine.

3. You will definitely have to work at maintaining the shine. You'll at the very
least need to keep it waxed. The various polishing systems usually include
some sort of protectant that you apply after polishing. The period for
which the protection lasts varies, but none seem very long-lived.

4. After a few polishings, you WILL have removed the alclad, at which point
maintaining the gloss becomes even more difficult, because the underlying
alloy tends to corrode (dull) more rapidly than the near pure aluminum clad.

5. You can paint after polish. It just requires scuffing the surface thoroughly,
then using normal paint prep techniques.

6. In short, polished aluminum looks great but is very labor intensive to
maintain. I say this after years of watching my company's efforts to keep
the leading edges of our wings looking good. If you're building a show plane
that will always be hangared and/or have plenty of time for maintenance,
polishing is great. But for real-world aircraft, I'd go with paint.

Ben R.
RV-9A #90217
Left wing top skins on!

no paint ,polishaircarft

US Airlines have been polishing their aircraft for years, no corrosion problems! suggest you look at SPCE Distribution Inc. webb site, you will find all the information on how to polish your aircraft.
www.aircraftpolish.com hope this helps and best of luck!
remeber when you have finished polishing, to use a good sealer (wax)

regards don

Hi Rudi

If you must use polish best to stay away from silicone based products. Otherwise should you decide to paint later you are going to have a heck of a job to get it to stay on.
Yes there are silicone removers but they don't work very well.
Regards
Peter Oz

Fly First

Rudi,

You'll find out soon enough during test flights that unpainted wings make for a blinding reflection. While building, think in terms of eventually painting.

John Siebold

I was considering doing the same thing; maybe painting most and leaving some parts polished.
It is a lot of work, from what I hear. I have old timer friends at the airport that used to have a polished prop (yeah, just the prop) who said it was just too much of a pain to keep it looking good (anf these guys are not lazy, either - Stu's RV 6 never has a bug or spot on it anywhere). Think about your control surfaces after you finished them - just carrying them a few feet results in fingerprints, smears, etc.
Not trying to discourage you, as I think a polished aluminum airplane looks great -but it will be LOTS of work - and probably take away from flying time.

Thomas
-8 ailerons

Rudi, like a lot of things we have people with all kinds of opinions and no personal experience. It reminds me of flying a tail dragger, you hear the same things: too hard, too dangerous. too etc. etc. etc.. I have a polished RV6.
I have flown it and polished it for 10 years. Let me share my personal experience with you and any others reading this post.
Question #1) I would reccomded you only use NuVite polish. Go to www.perfectpolish.com and read the informtion provided.
#2) I use an auto polish for the painted areas. The NuVite does not work as well on paint and it cost too much when you can get a great result with regular auto wax.
#3) The polish does offer corrosion resistance as long as you continue to keep the surface polished. If you stop polishing and leave the bear metal it will corrode just like any other bear metal.
#4) It is possible to paint later but you will have an extra effort to get all the old polish away from the rivet heads.
#5) I give my RV6 a good polish usually twice a year. Once in the spring and once in fall. Now if you fly in or leave your plane out in the rain you will have to repolish.
#6) For me it is worth it. I always wanted a polished airplane. I think there in nothing more beautiful than a hightly polished airplane. I have no plans on painting it unless I get to a point where I am unable to physically do it, which at that time I will have to sell the plane because I would be unable to fly it.
Now for some personal advice. Paint the wing leading edges. This will make it a lot easier to clean off the bugs after each flight and you don't have to polish that area. Paint the bottom of the aircraft. It is hard to polish the underside and with the paint under there you can just wash it off.
Sorry for the long post but I hope this helps. If you do decide to go with the polish and you want advice as to how I do it let me know.
Shine'r (now you know why)

+1 on the NuVite polish. That's good stuff.

I've polished several planes or parts of planes. I've also talked to alot of people who have done it. It's a lot of work. Not only to do it the first time but to keep doing it. Most owners will only polish an entire plane one time.

half and half?

What about a mixture of paint and bare? Can you use polishing products w/o damaging a painted area?

Thanks.

srv said:

What about a mixture of paint and bare? Can you use polishing products w/o damaging a painted area?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

Doing that might cause a rip in the fabric of time and space or cause you plane to explode! One of the two, I can't remember which.

greylingr said:

Hi Guys, looks like I might consider doing a shiny RV.

I have a couple of questions:
1) What product & method do you use as polish for your Shiny RV?
2) How do you polish where you?ve added paint trim details? Use the same product over the paint details?
3) Does the polish offer corrosion resistance?
4) Is it possible to paint later if you started out with a shiny RV using the polish?
5) Is it really such an effort to keep it shiny?
6) Is it worth it? Did you start shiny and then opted to paint?

If you can answer any of these questions or offer an opinion it would help.

Thanks in advance.

Kind Regards

Rudi

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Hi Rudi,

Though "Darla" is still unpainted, I am "reasonably" certain she will eventually sport some combination of polished aluminum and trim color(s). So sure am I of this that I recently purchased a Cyclo...http://www.topoftheline.com/aircraftpolishing.html and its required aluminum polishing accessories. The Cyclo is generally recognized as about the best polisher available. I believe some people's comments on how hard it is to keep a shine maintained are part urban myth and a reflection (no pun intended) on how much effort a given owner is willing to devote to superficial cosmetic attention. Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. My DAR has a polished aluminum and red trimmed Cessna 180 that he washes only occasionally and has not polished for well over a year yet the beauty of that airplane will turn your eye. Much of "Darla's" surfaces have only seen one hand polishing in over a year yet she looks just fine to me. I seriously doubt I will expend the effort to work for and maintain the extreme brilliance exhibited by many polished show planes, but who cares? For the occasional effort, I'll have a lighter weight and silvered bird that suits my purposes just fine. Besides...."Darla" has no dents I'm trying to hide so in my view.... if you've got it.....flaunt it!

Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"

Take two asperin, go to bed, and hope that you've forgotten about conversation in the morning. That will be $70.00.

Polishing notes from a newbie

Shine'r said:

..........people with all kinds of opinions and no personal experience................For me it is worth it. I always wanted a polished airplane. I think there in nothing more beautiful than a hightly polished airplane. I have no plans on painting it unless I get to a point where I am unable to physically do it...........

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As a newbie to the world of aircraft polishing, to date I have found the content of your message (severely excerpted above) to be accurate in every way. Here are my personal observations. It takes a considerable investment in tools and materials to do the job right and as efficiently as possible. I am using the Nuvite system exclusively and its materials are rather expensive compared to other polishing alternatives. No way would I even attempt to polish an airplane without power tools! Following Nuvite's suggestions, it is best to compound the surface first. My heavy duty 10" Dewalt polisher is fitted with a wool bonnet and set to 1000 RPM. I had some deep scratches and factory produced milling marks in several places that blended out well enough using coarser grades of polish like F7 or G6. This is followed up with the legendary dual head Cyclo polisher to remove the inevitable swirl marks. While I don't follow Nuvite's suggestions to the letter, I am quite happy with the results. To keep from getting lazy, I simply set a bite size goal for each work session and goes something like this. In one session, I'd mask off and do the fuel tanks. Next session, I worked the horizontal stab.....and on and on. The resulting patchwork of polished and unpolished areas is a striking look in itself. Polishing is not for everyone. It is an intensive labor of love. Just as one becomes quickly familiar with the location of potholes that lurk in the roadway in your daily commute, I have become intimately familiar with every blemish on every inch of my airplane worked with buffer and polish. Polished airplanes always draw attention not just because of their inherent beauty, but partly because as airplane owners we know how difficult it is to get there. It is a process the majority of fliers will never undertake because it does speak of a significant commitment in time and labor. We all prioritize. Some of us are fortunate to have more elective time than others. Recently, as I witnessed the steady drizzle and low visibility of the IFR environment outside the hangar door, I couldn't have been any happier, polishing away on "Darla" knowing that the sun will surely reflect off her brilliantly polished skin soon and in the days to follow. This photo illustrates 30 minutes of work this morning using the tools shown on the wing.

Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" 106 hours

Go polished - monkeys like shiny things.

The alclad provides good corrosion protection - it's a very thin layer of pure aluminum (non so strong) on top of the aluminum alloy (structural). Think of it as aluminum paint. So long as you don't feel you need to maintain the highest level of shine, it's really not much more work than keeping a painted surface clean and shiny.

[img=http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/3571/silverbaysmall9sh.th.jpg]

This one was polished maybe three years ago. I wash the leading edges with soap and water to get the bugs off after flying before I put it away.
It lives in the midwest so corrosion isn't much of a problem. If I lived on the Florida or gulf coast I might reconsider painting with a periodic treatment of ACF50 or CorrosionX.

Metalwork Mastery

If I may resurrect this thread for a bit, if you're interested in a bare, polished RV, check this out:

http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/tvrvbg/barn.htm

This gentleman has produced work I would have thought nearly impossible. I stand in awe.

Ben R.
RV-9A #90217
Aft fuselage

Amazing Metalwork

Red Voodoo said:

http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/tvrvbg/barn.htm

This gentleman has produced work I would have thought nearly impossible. I stand in awe.

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That's no exaggeration! Wow! Does anyone have any other pictures of Clyde Stanfield's work? Is his plane finished? What about the cowl? I've seen great metalwork, but this is really amazing.

all-aluminum RV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Voodoo
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/tvrvbg/barn.htm

This gentleman has produced work I would have thought nearly impossible. I stand in awe.
That's no exaggeration! Wow! Does anyone have any other pictures of Clyde Stanfield's work? Is his plane finished? What about the cowl? I've seen great metalwork, but this is really amazing.

Click to expand...

I can address this question since I wrote the article.

Clyde's metalworking handicraft is even more impressive in person than in the photos. However, it seems that due to family matters and other things Clyde's project has been put on the back burner. No significant progress has been made since the article was written.

I really hope Clyde decides to get back on his project at some point. If he ever completes his plane, especially with the aluminum cowl, it will be one of the most stunning RVs ever built. Think in terms of an RV that is on the same level as the Hughes racer of a couple years back.....

Sam Buchanan
Tennessee Valley RV Builders Group

polished, invasion stripes

I'm considering polished-style, ala the WWII fighter style with Invasion stripes that a couple of builders have adopted. Have assumed the stripes would cut down on the wing-glare issues others have noted with bare wingtops. Is that a bad assumption?

Also, would it be possible to use vinyl decals for some/all of the stripes?

Sam Buchanan said:

I really hope Clyde decides to get back on his project at some point. If he ever completes his plane, especially with the aluminum cowl, it will be one of the most stunning RVs ever built. Think in terms of an RV that is on the same level as the Hughes racer of a couple years back.....

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Thanks for the info, Sam. I also hope he finishes, just so I can see it at a fly-in.

Reasons to paint

Well here goes, I'm braced for the flaming that is coming from this but...

Reasons to paint instead of polish an RV:

1. I've heard of one canopy being destroyed by the sun reflecting off of the shiny wings. There is a plane in the Central Valley of CA that was parked outside in the summer sun for a few hours and the canopy had to be replaced before the airplane could fly again. This might be a fluke, but would probably have been prevented with paint. There have been other stories I've heard with similar results, but know of none specifically other than "They said" type of information which may or may not be true.

2. Prior to painting my 9a every time I parked outside a stream of fuel would come from the vents as the wings heated up. (Again, summer time) It was always a game when filling the tanks to stop at a level that would not belch fuel onto the ramp. Opening the fuel caps when the tanks are full and the weather is hot outside caused gas to shoot out and onto me. Again, could be fixed by not keeping your tanks full.

3. Corrosion- could be prevented by constant work

4. Heat inside the airplane while flying. I know of no way to quantify this, but an example of what I'm trying to say is: Landing at Saint Johns, Arizona for gas in early April enroute to have the airplane painted on the home field of VAF in Texas. After shutting down the engine near the fuel pumps another RV'er that had just filled up to continue on his way to Sun N Fun came over to say hello. He casually put the palm of his hand on the top of my wing skin and commented on how hot it was. Remember, I fly a 9A and this was not from friction while flying in the Mach + ranges. We then walked over and felt his plane and came back and compared it to mine. His was cool, or slightly warm at best compared to mine which was very warm to down right hot. Riding long distances in a heated can, plus heat coming from the engine through the firewall and one seems to fly very thirsty on long trips.
Also the sun has a way of reflecting off of those shiny wings and into your eyes.

5. Little mistakes that you make while building are easy to spot. Don't believe this is an issue? Go to a large fly inn and watch how everybody scrutinizes all of the airplanes. When your stretching your legs and getting ready to tie down after arrival the inspection is already beginning. Once after eating lunch at Monterey which is a secure class C airport we found two people under our airplane looking at the tail area. They were a student and an instructor just looking the airplane over, but they were pointing and nodding their heads as if saying no and seemed pretty happy. Frankly I didn't know whether to approach my own airplane or not. What I'm saying is that since painting this kind of scrutiny has completely changed. Now the rivets that might stand a little proud of flush are not magified by the shiny skin. Questions are now about where I got my airplane painted rather than having somebody walk up to an inperfection and run their finger over it to let me know that there is something that is not worthy of what they would do if they were to ever build an airplane. Surely you know this from your neighbors who would drop in while you were building and would go to an area that is not finished, or not perfect, or something that you are planning to do over, or whatever. Remember those times when they could not see the 10,000 or so rivets that you have set perfectly, just the ones that have circles around them with a sharpie to remind you to replace them. They would always feel them with a look like I'd never fly in this thing with this kind of workmanship. Just think, you have spent countless hours polishing your pride and joy and some idiot walks up and notices where the skin is pulled down slightly at a rib from the rivets. Something happens in this persons mind where they need to feel it, and they commence to rub their finger accross this area. Now there is a smudge on your shiny wing that helps to draw attention to others to do the same. Soon just fingers gliding lightly over your wing skin has taken that beautiful shine away. Now there's more work for you to correct it. Who needs this?

6. Letting your spouse design the paint is a great way to let them put their stamp on the project and they have a way to feel pride when traveling. Nobody notices things that I did while basically living in the garage, but they do notice and comment on the part my wife put her stamp on. She gets to hear it every time we fly and has made the airplane something that she has personal pride in similar to how I feel about it. My wife also picked the interior colors for our plane.

Regards,

Bryan - number 5 is pretty funny! I havent seen Dan reply to this one yet, but I remember him posting when he finished his plane, his "friends" went around his plane with a sharpie and circled and commented on every single blemish they could find! BTW - he still flies unpainted.

Can you spray a layer of clear-coat on top of polished aluminum?
Would that not keep it shiny for quite a long while?

I want to keep mine shiny but there is one part of the plane,
besides the fiberglass, that I most definitely will paint; the
tops of the wings. Man is the sun glare nasty on the eyes.

Baja_Traveler said:

Bryan - number 5 is pretty funny! I havent seen Dan reply to this one yet, but I remember him posting when he finished his plane, his "friends" went around his plane with a sharpie and circled and commented on every single blemish they could find! BTW - he still flies unpainted.

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Ehh, screw 'em. They're just getting you wherever they can, since you're always outrunning them or burning less fuel or outclimbing them or not busy wiping the hangar queen down with a diaper.

But Walter is right about the glare. It's only at some angles, but when it's there it's there.

I thought I could live with it (glare) until I was on final and the left side of my
head caught fire from the sun's reflection.

Lets face it guys (gals) its always like this on such a subject: The men will polish the boys will paint........
Go fly have fun...........
Shine'r

With only the information from this thread a reasonable person could only come up with one conclusion. If you polish it to much you will go blind!

The "Boy" in me just couldn't resist.

On a semi-related note:

Is there any issue with glare from the skin in front of the canopy, whether painted or unpainted?

I've been thinking about paint schemes and colors (yeah, I know... get a PPL and the plane built first!) the past few days, and been wondering if anyone has problems with it. The vast majority of my flying has been in aircraft with flat paint, so no glare issues to speak of...