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Elevator fiberglass tip options

Rick6a

Rick6a

Well Known Member
How are people dealing with the elevator fiberglass tip as it wraps around the lead weight? Glassing in the end seems problematic without removing some of the lead to allow capping the tip. I thought about simply tapping a sheet metal screw through the top and bottom of the tip penetrating into the lead to hold the forward end of the tip down securely but among other things, am not sure how paint would adhere to raw lead. Ideas please.
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Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
RV-8A empennage
 
I put a little bit of flox into the gap and a thin layer of glass over the lead & flox.
 
I would Epoxy the tip in place to the aluminum skin and lead counter balance weight mixed with some flox first.

I used glass beads and flox mixed and poured a layer over the lead area. Sanded it down and shaped a slight radius on it so it passed by the HS nicely.

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-Jeff
 
RV_7A said:
I would Epoxy the tip in place to the aluminum skin and lead counter balance weight mixed with some flox first.

I used glass beads and flox mixed and poured a layer over the lead area. Sanded it down and shaped a slight radius on it so it passed by the HS nicely.
-Jeff
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Jeff,
Your work looks superb. I should have mentioned that I install all tips with screws and nutplates for easy removal. Of course, this is not necessary but down the road, if I choose to paint the tips a different color, their easy removal will greatly ease painting chores. Yesterday, I removed the left forward horizontal stab tip from my flying 6A for review and lo and behold a (wasp?) decided to make a nest and was firmly bonded to the inside of the tip, the kind made of mud with a tunnel through it. Apparently all the insect bombs we have set off in the hangar have done little good.
Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
RV-8A empennage
 
The Final Fix

This is how I finished the fiberglass elevator tips. I removed just enough counterweight lead to allow clearance for the .063 aluminum caps I bonded to the elevator tip fairings. The quick and simple technique of bonding aluminum to the tips has worked very well on my 6A. The elevators are perfectly balanced (for now, before paint) by installing a stack of area washers into a 1/4" nutplate. Thread protrusion can be easily observed during preflight by simply sighting the nutplate. In the highly unlikely event the bolt holding the counterweight washers somehow works its way loose, it would simply be contained inside its removable tip fairing.
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Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
RV-8A empennage complete
 
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I'm curious, not knowing much about these yet. Do they come prebalenced? or do you have to do it yourself after paint?
 
osxuser said:
I'm curious, not knowing much about these yet. Do they come prebalenced? or do you have to do it yourself after paint?
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They are "ballpark" balanced. That is, the counterweights are generally heavier than what is ultimately required. Simply drilling holes into the lead weights is the common way of lightening, if required. But Van's has no way of knowing what the builder intends......that is ......will the skins ultimately be polished aluminum surfaces, or dents and blemishes covered with a heavy body filler then painted...how much paint (and primer) etc. Even placing the electric servo in the left elevator (as opposed to the manual trim) effects balance. All these variables can and do effect balance, but the design makes it simple to achieve proper elevator balance given any builder result. In my case after painting the surfaces, adjusting elevator balance will be simplified by merely adding or removing a washer or two as required.

Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
RV-8A empennage complete
 
Elevator tips

I used epoxy to cover up the end of the elevator tip, but now that I've got it on the aircraft, I can see that I made it too fat. I need to re-do it. Ugh.

Quick question - I understand the older models had a different placement of the counterweight. Did they have different tips, as well? I'd like to buy some tips that are closed in the front, like the upper rudder tip. Does anyone know if this is available?
 
Mickey,

This thread is a little confusing to me because the counterweight set-up doesn't look anything like mine. Has Vans changed the way the counterweights are designed? Sure looks that way. Here is what my elevator counterweights look like:

http://www.geocities.com/scottka70/Relevator.html

My fiberglass tips are closed at the front if I recall correctly. I made my own so maybe my old ones will work for you?

Kelly
 
elevator tips

kasTX said:
Mickey,

This thread is a little confusing to me because the counterweight set-up doesn't look anything like mine. Has Vans changed the way the counterweights are designed? Sure looks that way. Here is what my elevator counterweights look like:

http://www.geocities.com/scottka70/Relevator.html

My fiberglass tips are closed at the front if I recall correctly. I made my own so maybe my old ones will work for you?

Kelly
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Kelly, This is exactly the info I'm looking for. Can you check to see if your elevator tips are closed? I called Van's and spoke to "Scott", and he said they have always been open, like the first picture in this thread. I found that kind of unusual, since why would you have them open if the counterweights are like yours? If yours are closed, I'll be happy to take them off your hands. If you're not interested in selling them, can you let me know the part number they've got, so can try to get Van's to sell me some?

One thing I just thought of - it is possible that Van's made the length of the counterweight arm a bit longer when they went to the new method. Of course, that would make it kind of hard to use the old elevator tips. If you can find yours, can you measure the length?

Many thanks!
 
The tips HAVE changed, Van's is wrong

My friend is building a 7A like mine, but his is an earlier release. His elevator counter weights are like the -6, Mine are the new kind as illustrated, with the end of the lead exposed and the fiberglass tip wrapping around, but not around the forward part. The newer one has more leverage and either balances better or takes less lead - not sure. His was so early that he had the older, smaller rudder.
h
 
Mickey,

I just dug out my old tips and, unfortunately, they are open on the forward end so they are the same as yours. Sorry for the confusion, but it has been a while since I looked at them. :( Also, I found the following text in my builder's manual at the end of the empennage section:

"The forward ends of the E-612 fiberglass elevator tip and the R-809 rudder tip are open. These must be plugged or capped, both for appearance and to close them to the oncoming airflow. This may be done in a variety of ways, as shown in Figure 6-14PP. A balsa or softwood plug may be fashioned and bonded into place; a foam plug may be inserted and sealed with a layer of fiberglass, or a soft aluminum cap fashioned and pop riveted in place."

The new design is interesting, probably done to lessen the amount of lead required to do the job.
 
kasTX said:
The new design is interesting, probably done to lessen the amount of lead required to do the job.
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Or perhaps just a lot easier to install. Trimming and drilling a hole through that big hunk of lead was a pain. Your's look like it was a breeze to fit. My Emp is less than a year old and uses the old style lead. I don't remember any mention of having to close the tips (most people did anyway) but with these new weights I can see why you would need to now. Vans just keeps getting better and better.

Rat
 
Elevator tips

kasTX said:
I just dug out my old tips and, unfortunately, they are open on the forward end so they are the same as yours. Sorry for the confusion, but it has been a while since I looked at them. :(
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No problem. Thanks for checking it out for me.
 
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