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Grand Rapids EIS 4000

I have a Challenger II with a Rotax 503 two stroke two cylinder engine. I am running thier EIS system in it now. It monitors all of the engine parameters. It can also monitor altitude and climb rate with the added altimeter, fuel flow with added capacitive probes, OAT, and many other things.

Below is a link to the Grand Rapids website. As posted by other people on other threads they have a great product. Mine works great. For an engine information system it works great. I just plugged the appropriate leads from the various probes into the correct connections and viola it all worked.

http://www.grtavionics.com/model_4000&6000.htm

RVBYSDI
Steve
My RV9A project is officially adopting me tomorrow.
 
EIS-4000 highly recommend

I highly recommend GRT EIS-4000. The price is a little miss leading.

It is going to be a little more with all the options. The Spruce aircraft price they quote is out of date and I think only comes with 2 CHT/EGT probes. (one thing I dislike about Spruce is their advertised prices are lower than actual)

With the basic package and all the recommended options below total price (everything) $1392, add Fuel Flow $1767. The best deal around.

From GRT web site:

EIS-4000P Advanced EIS Model-4000 package (Save $145): Package for 4-cylinder Lycoming includes EIS Model 4000 Instrument, 4 EGT probes, 4 CHT bayonet-type CHT probes with adapters, Oil Temperature Sensor, Oil Pressure Sensor, and pre-wired cables $995.

Basic functions included :
4 Exhaust Gas Temperatures
4 Cylinder Head Temperatures
Tachometer
Oil Temperature
Oil Pressure
Voltmeter
Hour meter
Flight Timer with Interval Timer
Outside Air Temperature**
Carburetor Temperature**

6 Auxiliary Input s available user configurable provide:
(Typical use for Aux input)
Manifold Pressure **
Fuel Pressure **
Fuel Level (using capacitive or float-type sending units) **
Amp meter **

** Probes not included in basic package

Recommended OPTIONS:

Opt-FF-01 Fuel Flow Option ? Includes sending unit $375.

OAT-01 Outside Air Temperature Probe $24.

CARB-01 Carburetor Air Temperature Probe $28.

MAP-01 Manifold Pressure Sensor 0-31 in Hg $60.

LPS-02 0-28 psi fuel pressure sender $35.

CS-01 Current (AMPS) Sensor +/- 100 AMP $60.

FL-PE-01 Capacitive Fuel Level Probe ? Easy Calibrate $95 each (x 2)

That is all you need, for less than $1800. The wiring harness is included and is pre-wired for all 6 Aux inputs. :D Cheers George
 
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Grt Eis 4000

I have one for my 7A hooked up to an Aerosport O-360, w/ all probes (OAT,Carb temp, EGT-4, CHT-4, Fuel flow, MAP) Great price and dirt simple to hook up. Takes very little space. GRT will take good care of you too when you call them for support.

If you want to add full engine graphics later on, you can install a GRT Enigne monitor display that hooks directly to the 4000.

Also, you can buy several PDA palm size computers that interface with the 4000 to display the data as gauges for approx. $400 extra.

Jeff N247DE
 
I first called Grand Rapids and asked what sensors the EIS 4000 came with as a standard. It comes with exactly what is listed on their site.
-4 EGT Probes (EGT-HCS-01)
-4 CHT Bayonet-type CHT probes
-Oil Temp
-Oil Pressure

I then called Spruce to confirm what is listed on their site is actually an EIS-4000 pn 10-00285 complete with these sensors for $877 and they confirmed this.

I then mentioned I wanted to add the following sensors.
Priced from Grand Rapids site since Spruce did not have them listed.
OAT-01 Outside air temp probe $24
MAP-01 Manifold Pressure sensor $60
HPS-01 High pressure fuel sensor (IO-360) $35
CS-01 Current sensor $60

Maria checked and called me back with a quote.

$1060

They must have added $36 for the EGT-HCS-01 clamps.

I didn't question the quote and ordered it for that price.

She then called me back shortly after and mentioned that they do not stock these and that Grand Rapids would be shipping my order in 2 weeks. Business must be good ;)

-Jeff
 
No Fuel flow?

Spruce is cheaper? WOW that is a first. Let us know if they stick to that price. The old EIS units use to only come with 2 EGT/2 CHT. I would be mad if they jack you up. It has been over 10 years but it happened to me and a few friends. Check your credit card. Best of luck.

No FF - not a must have but nice. Make sure the unit can be used with a fuel flow transducer down the road. I have been with GRT as a customer for some time and upgraded my unit to the latest unit twice. I think all the units accept the FF transducer and requires only a special code to be entered to turn the feature on. Cheers George

PS you will love it. Takes a little work to program the aux input scale factors and custom pages to the format you want, but no big deal. :D
 
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Spruce cheaper?! I know, I thought the same thing. Thats why I asked a jillion questions before ordering. Not to mention I got the ladys name and extension that relayed all the answers to me. We'll see what happens. I wont eat this doo doo if the wrong product comes my way.

-Jeff
 
"Cheap" and "Value" aren't always linear.

Try calling one of the people at that any of the huge super supply places and ask them about installing the thing......the people who generally answer the phone usually don't know a file folder from an flap.

As far as ACS being the cheapest, you simply didn't shop around. GRT has a lot of dealers that sell the EIS's...all are competitive, and none of them are in stock as they are usually setup for your particular engine install.

Once again, apologies for the rant, but remember, the absolute lowest $$ isn't always your "best buy". The $15.00 you save buys a lot of support from dealers who'll spend many hours with you on the phone helping you answer wiring questions, installation questions, etc..

Interesting fact to note....Notice what "they" don't sell....the GRT EFIS. Wonder why? Because dealers are expected to provide a certain amount of expertise, experience and support to the end user.

Just keep that in mind before you go shopping to save a few bucks on your $70K plane.

Cheers,
Stein.
 
LOL! I dont think I'll be calling Spruce for support on my EIS. Grand Rapids is the manufacturer so they are who I will call. Whether they sell their product directly or through any of their other dealers for a cheaper price, they will always be the point of contact for support. That goes the same for any warranty claims. Thats a given. Did I save money ordering from Spruce as opposed to buying it directly from Grand Rapids? ... YES about $130. Did I save the most I possibly could have? ... Who knows. Did I sacrafice my $70K planes integrity by buying a quality EIS for cheaper than list price? ... NO. Thats why I started this thread. Nice thing is now, Im 2 days closer to installing it!!! :) :)
 
I'm with Stein on this one. The lowest price is not always (and usually isn't) the best value. I would rather pay a few extra bucks and purchase from a vendor who is going to give me excellent customer support. Yes, you can get support from the manufacturer, but another source of support is never a bad idea.

In the case of the EIS, it comes pre-wired which makes installation easy. This is not always the case with other types or brands of equipment. Depending on your wiring abilities this may or may not be an issue. However, I feel buying from a vendor (such as Steinair) who can supply harnesses as well as the product is a plus for me. :)

my .02
 
Is there some reason why a guy like Jeff can't use the $130 he saved to buy a harness and some advice from a guy like Stein? I gotta say that giving someone a hard time for tracking down a good price is bad form, especially for a competitor. I live near Spruce and probably visit there once a week and have always found them to have excellent customer service. Obviously they're not going to know how to wire up my plane, but who would expect that.

Steve Zicree
 
My inention wasn't to knock ACS, because I still actively spend a bunch of money with them, buying things that you can't get elsewhere and frankly, it's just easy for me. Contrary to many peoples experience, I have pretty good luck with them, and get along with Jim Irwin well. I think he's a decent guy running a decent business.

My point was that there are other alternatives and that absolute cheapest $$ isn't always the best. For example, Fabian at Affordable Panels also does a remarkable job with many products and is able to support them to his customers (which you'll find he has an excellent record).

Moreover my point was this....yes, you can get support from the mfgr after you buy it somewhere esle, but the whole darned purpose for a dealership network is to martket, sell, install, and SUPPORT the products for the mfgr. That's why there is margin on products. If mfgrs didn't care about dealers supporting things, they'd allow everyone to sell things at cost, and when someone calls me for support, I'd just tell them to call the mfgr. Put yourself in their shoes, yes they will support you, but as their products grow and the compay grows the formula of buying one place and getting support in another just won't work too well. When you call the mfgr after buying it somewhere else and Joe Bob who bought it from the mfgr both call them for support, who do you think is going to get better support? As an example, If you buy from a good dealer and manage to screw up some connectors, pins, etc... and call them, they almost always will just send you some replacements for free. That's what a few extra bucks buys you.

Here's a phenomenon that happens even to lowly dealers like me on a regular basis - I'll just pick one of many products. I spend many hours on the phone each week with people who call and say "I'm trying to put in my TruTrak servos (or Dynon or GRT, et.al)".....and have some questions I need your help with (since we've installed a number of these things and also make the harnesses for them). How excited do you think I am when the guy tells me he bought them somewhere else because they were a few $$'s cheaper than what I sell them for? Yes, I'm glad to help, but if there are two people waiting that want help or even advice, and one bought the stuff from me, guess who gets first priority? - or - when guys ask if I can just "throw a couple pins" (or BNC, etc..) into an envelope for him since it's only a few pennies.

Anyway, if you think I was "giving someone a hard time" about my "competition", you'r way off. I'm not even in the same league as ACS, barely a speck on the windshield to them. I respect the hell out of Irwin and I don't consider them my competition at all. I was merely trying to make a point, since the mantra of the posts was "xxx is cheapest", I was trying to make the point that whoever "xxx" ends up being, "Cheapest" may not always be best. As usual, I'm sure I've managed to lose some future potential customers with my "advice", but that's all it was....advice. I wasn't ragging, flaming, or giving anyone a hard time. If it came across that way, I apologize.

All these posts that I make are as a fellow RV builder giving advice...NOT to stump. Unlike some of the businesses or people out there offering advice, I have built and fly more than one RV of my own, hence the ability to give at least a little insight from both sides.

Cheers,
Stein.
 
Making full circle back and somewhat related to my original question. I obviously was asking if $877 was what the EIS 4000 was selling for at Spruce. I thought that was a low price for the product. Forget about support, I can get that from the manufacturer on this product regardless of what distributor I buy it from. I don?t know about everyone else but there are things we need to buy during construction of our planes that are worthy of doing a little price comparing and then there?s the small things that no one cares about saving $2 on. Things like mood, finances, urgency, ease of ordering, availability, delivery time and a few others that push towards a certain supplier at that particular time. Big ticket items $250 ~ $5000 items always seem to prompt me shop around.

I did a little internet browsing and found a fairly low price and was amazed.

That?s all. I already ordered it from Spruce.

I love this board and Thank Doug everyday!
:p
 
I agree? What?

Mr. Stein:

I did not take your comments as negative at all. I have e-mailed you before and appreciate all your expertise, quality harness & products. Look forward to doing business with you soon.

Aircraft spruce has given me many a free catalog that I have spent many enjoyable hours reading. I also have participated in a few of there x-country races they sponsor. Thanks ACS. :D

Obviously a large company like ACS with a long history is going to have some mistakes. Also, I was not blasting ACS either, but I have had the experience that they did not publish accurate pricing and it was always more when you ordered it. Again this was in the late 80's. Now with the web may be they are keeping it updated better? "Prices subject to change?"

When I heard they offered the best price I was surprised, support or not. I would not be surprised if they did not update the current price and may be eating it. May be Greg at GRT forgot to tell ACS of a price increase and he will eat it? I am not sure what the mark-up is or what GRT sells the units to dealers for, but let us know if you get it for this price. Check you credit card. Good Luck George
 
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Advice

As usual, I'm sure I've managed to lose some future potential customers with my "advice", but that's all it was....advice.
That's it, Stein. I'm never buying anything from you again!

BTW, when will you have the vertical compass cards back in stock - I need one! :)
 
I'll go with Stein

I have been following this thread with intrest, since I plan to use the EIS 4000 in my RV8A. The Spruce price at $877 is $23 less than the price Stein advertises on his website. I'll pay the extra $23.

A few months ago I had a problem and needed advice. I calles Stein, who took his valuable time to share his expertise with me at some length.

I was impressed with his knowledge and his honesty in discussing the issue. I did not buy anthing from him, and he made no effort to "sell" me. I have not forgotten his kindness and willingness to help an RV guy understand the issues in planning a panel.

My Scottish decent has prepared me to pinch a penny until it squeals. I love to save money. In my view, the extra $23 is well spent. The advice he gave me was worth more than that, and he gave it for free and not as a sales pitch. I also like to support small business people, as well as other RV guys.

I know that if I have the slightest problem with a product I buy from Stein, he will make it right. He will even take the time to explain to a goober like me how I screwed up the install or read the directions incorrectly.

I must confess that if Stein was selling the 4000 for the list price, which would mean my paying $130 more, I would buy from Spruce. Steins price is fair enough, and his support is worth it. When I am ready to order the EIS 4000, I will order it from Stein.

Tony Johnson
RV8A (fuselage)
Orlando
 
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