Van's Air Force
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PIC Aviation
- Thread starter Jackm
- Start date
I'm a cfii with a RV10 with glass, but not looking to spend two weeks in WA so instead I'll put in my two cents.
In the ideal world you'd want a cfii with RV10 experience, and not just glass but your glass, experience. That will be hard to find. I feel comfortable behind GRT and a Trio autopilot but no experience at all with AFS and a TT autopilot.
IMHO: Having RV time is the least important. After all, you should be doing all the flying. You should expect your cfii to be competent on G430(W) and GTN650/750 equipment. They're everywhere now. That leaves the other glass. Ideally at least one of you will be very familiar with the panel. I have to say that I never cease to be amazed at how many pilots are flying behind nice equipment but they only know how to use 20% of it. This can all be done on the ground. Do yourself a favor and 'fly' in the hangar until you can use every aspect of every device. If necessary get someone (need not be a cfi) to help you. Then you're ready to start instrument training, and it can be with any decent cfii.
In the ideal world you'd want a cfii with RV10 experience, and not just glass but your glass, experience. That will be hard to find. I feel comfortable behind GRT and a Trio autopilot but no experience at all with AFS and a TT autopilot.
IMHO: Having RV time is the least important. After all, you should be doing all the flying. You should expect your cfii to be competent on G430(W) and GTN650/750 equipment. They're everywhere now. That leaves the other glass. Ideally at least one of you will be very familiar with the panel. I have to say that I never cease to be amazed at how many pilots are flying behind nice equipment but they only know how to use 20% of it. This can all be done on the ground. Do yourself a favor and 'fly' in the hangar until you can use every aspect of every device. If necessary get someone (need not be a cfi) to help you. Then you're ready to start instrument training, and it can be with any decent cfii.
dmaib
Well Known Member
Like Bob, I am a CFII with glass in my airplane and I completely agree with Bob. An instructor with RV experience is not really necessary for you. A good instrument instructor should be able to help you. Also agree with Bob that you should be very familiar, competent, and comfortable with your avionics package when you start your instrument training.
Another $.02 worth.
Another $.02 worth.
Mike S
Senior Curmudgeon
OK, other side of the coin here.
I am familiar, competent and comfortable with my panel-------as I currently utilize it, which is for VFR only.
I am totally NOT familiar or competent or comfortable with its IFR capabilities----------which is EXACTLY the reason I want a double I who flies a plane configured similar to mine.
BillL
Well Known Member
I will be in the same boat after getting airborne.
So - question - Flying IFR is a challenging situation where one must know their plane and panel at several levels. Knowing what is happening in adverse circumstances of partial failure seems like something unique to EACH RV.
Maybe, you could simply sit with the CFII and go over the potential failure modes so that you would know what they are ( and any tricky interactions)before embarking on the training.
Aren't RV panels like DNA ? - just a little difference behind the panel can make a big difference on the working side wst partial failures.
How have others handled this training?
So - question - Flying IFR is a challenging situation where one must know their plane and panel at several levels. Knowing what is happening in adverse circumstances of partial failure seems like something unique to EACH RV.
Maybe, you could simply sit with the CFII and go over the potential failure modes so that you would know what they are ( and any tricky interactions)before embarking on the training.
Aren't RV panels like DNA ? - just a little difference behind the panel can make a big difference on the working side wst partial failures.
How have others handled this training?
dmaib
Well Known Member
Mike, I suspect that because you are very comfortable with your glass and it's capabilities for VFR, you might find that you are already most of the way home as far as using it for IFR. Certainly if you have a CFII that is experienced with your system, that is a nice +.
Bill's suggestion to sit in the cockpit with the instructor and go over the system and potential failure modes prior to flying is a great idea. The cockpit is a lousy classroom when airborne, so learning as much as possible before flying is generally a good thing.
Mike S
Senior Curmudgeon
More than just a great idea, I consider it to be mandatory.
Thanks for input
I agree 100 percent with comments. In my situation , I am comfortable with my glass panel and all its functionality...that being said I learn something everytime I power it up and fly behind it.
My concern is because I choose to do the 10 day course, I don't want to spend the first day and a half teaching a CFII how the AFS system and backup Effis work. I also would prefer not to have a CFII who has zero RV experience even though they should not be flying the aircraft. I want him to be comfortable flying with me from minute one. There is a reason why insurance companies only require 10 hours with someone like Mike Seager or David vs any CFI. Mike has a way about him that for me is instructing with no drama and insurance companies know this. Example, On the first flight with our RV10, on take off, the TT auto pilot engaged at about 50 feet off the ground...Mike, being who he is and knowledge of the TT AP calmly reached up and disengaged ( caught on GoPro). A Cfi with limited knowledge would most likely have strong armed the controls till safe altitude and then worked his way through how to disengage.
I have flown with a good friend of mine that has shown me how a full IFR approach works and the different variables and if I remember right (he has 650) entering the approach into the 650 is probably the simple part... reading and understanding what it all means on the EFFIS is interesting and a education.
I agree 100 percent with comments. In my situation , I am comfortable with my glass panel and all its functionality...that being said I learn something everytime I power it up and fly behind it.
My concern is because I choose to do the 10 day course, I don't want to spend the first day and a half teaching a CFII how the AFS system and backup Effis work. I also would prefer not to have a CFII who has zero RV experience even though they should not be flying the aircraft. I want him to be comfortable flying with me from minute one. There is a reason why insurance companies only require 10 hours with someone like Mike Seager or David vs any CFI. Mike has a way about him that for me is instructing with no drama and insurance companies know this. Example, On the first flight with our RV10, on take off, the TT auto pilot engaged at about 50 feet off the ground...Mike, being who he is and knowledge of the TT AP calmly reached up and disengaged ( caught on GoPro). A Cfi with limited knowledge would most likely have strong armed the controls till safe altitude and then worked his way through how to disengage.
I have flown with a good friend of mine that has shown me how a full IFR approach works and the different variables and if I remember right (he has 650) entering the approach into the 650 is probably the simple part... reading and understanding what it all means on the EFFIS is interesting and a education.
Mike S
Senior Curmudgeon
YES, yes yes.
This brings up an interesting point also----------some folks learn best by doing/being shown. And others work well by reading.
I personally will learn more from just sitting in the plane for an hour or two learning hands on from someone who knows the equipment-----(before going flying), than I could ever learn from a stack of operating manuals ten feet high.
dmaib
Well Known Member
Amen! I agree 100%. Sometimes it seems like the folks that write the manuals, don't fly the airplanes. I know that is often not the case, but it sure seems like it when I am trying to plow through a Garmin/Honeywell/Dynon/Chelton/etc., etc. manual.
One of the big learning experiences I had when I started flying my airplane was how long it took to really learn the Chelton system I had in the airplane at that time. (GRT Hxr today) I had retired from a job flying advanced cockpit corporate jets, going to Flight Safety for initial training, recurrent training every six months, and flying the airplanes IFR on a regular basis. It did not seem like that big a deal to transition to a new EFIS.
It took me a good year before I was really comfortable flying my airplane in IMC conditions and I worked pretty hard at it, and I was a very current instrument pilot at that time. That's another thing I have realized since retiring. It is a lot of work and discipline to keep oneself really instrument current when you are not doing it every day. Very difficult, IMHO.This must be at least $.03 worth!!
Jack,
I suspect that anyone who PIC sends will fit this description. Truth is, the cfi will put some trust in you. Trust that the airplane is safe to fly, trust that you can perform basic flying, etc. Any cfi that doesn't have the "comfortable flying with strangers" personality usually has a nervous breakdown within 6 months, and is gone! -
I'm sure there was some artistic license in the "day and a half to get acquainted" comment. About 15 minutes to show him all the various displays should suffice. Then, in flight, he may say, "bring up the HSI display with the main CDI on the gps and the RMI needle on nav 1", and expect you to do it. (IF you don't know how to do that, then you need to come up to speed on the ground, prior to training, either with the manual (as Dave said, like reading a dictionary) or someone (anyone who knows the system) helping.)
Have you called PIC and asked them questions? I would specifically ask about the simulator they use. Almost certainly it will not mock up your panel. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, but it may mean it will take longer than 10 days for you as you learn two different systems.
I would also ask them about exploring the full capabilities of your panel. For example, will they give you practice with both a conventional ("bars and nose dot") AI indicator display and an inverted V flight director display? Or to get it done in 10 days do they need to restrict you to the basic display, with no help from the autopilot software?
Also ask them about the written. Since it's best if you take the flight test soon after the PIC course, they will probably recommend you have the ifr written done before starting. (I think that's good advice in any event.) Preparing for the written will also give you some idea of the navigation set ups you're going to need, which in turn will help guide you thru the capabilities of your panel that you need to know.
Finally, keep David's comments in mind. Whether it's a 10 day cram course or a more traditional route, you need to make a commitment to continuous training afterwards.
