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XM WX

L'Avion

L'Avion

Well Known Member
One of my hangar neighbors told me that he recently went to fly with his dual equipped XM WX aircraft and found that the XM WX did not work, and had been deactivated. He had to telephone to get his units reactivated; that I am told by others is common, even though there's no lapse in paying for the XM WX subscription.

So what I see is that one may pay monthly fees for an XM WX subscription that 'may' be deactvated without notice; and said pilot could conceivably launch in clear skies VFR and later as he see clouds/wx ahead, tune up his XM Wx to find that it does not work, and find himself in a difficult situation, no(?).

And, so further, I inquired of XM WX how & when such deactivaion might occur, and why; and I have not been satisfied with the non-answers that their "listenercare" has provided.

Therefore, in this forum, I'm throwing up the RED FLAG of safety in hopes that no one ever launches into a situation where he might hope to depend on his XM WX, find it not working, and later wander into weather that might result in another statistic.

If I had XM WX capability (Garmin 496, as I posed in my original question to XM WX) I would be an infrequent user (cross countries) and would not like to find myself backed into a hole where my subscription had been deactivated when I might most need it.

In my effort to find out what gives with subscription deactivations, I include below this message my recent email interchange with XM.

Barney, M01 Memphis
RV-4 flying
RV-3 rebuilt, & 0-time assembling engine, flying soon
*********

Dear Mr. Barnhart,

Thank you for contacting XM.

We are more than willing to assist with your request as it relates to forwarding your email to a supervisor.

As you requested we have forwarded your email to a supervisor for assistance. You will be contacted as quickly as possible in regards to your issue.

Your patience in this matter is appreciated.

If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to send an additional email or you may contact a Listener Care Representative directly at 1-800-XM RADIO (800-967-2346). Our Listener Care Center?s hours of operation are as follows:

Monday - Saturday: 8 AM - 11 PM ET
Sunday: 8AM - 8PM ET

Thank you,
Karen

SIRIUS XM Radio Inc.
1500 Eckington Place NE
Washington, D.C. 20002
www.xmradio.com
XM Listener Care: 1-800-967-2346

On June 7, 2009 at 4:56 PM, "Barney" wrote: PLEASE REFER THIS EMAIL TO A SUPERVISOR I think that the matter of how and when an XM Aviation subscription may be deactivated, and for what reason(s) is of utmost important to the safety of aviation and users of such subscriptions. Please be advised that I am throwing up a RED FLAG about my concerns regarding aviation safety; and am asking my questions, again: "I have reviewed the website at http://www.xmwxweather.com/aviation/, but have been unable to find any explanation to satisfy my original questions. My question(s), again, relate specifically to XM WX/Aviation as it might be available in the cockpit, by subscription: If one has an XM aviation weather subscription, and it is not used regularly, after what period of time might it be deactivated, requiring a telephone call to XM to have it reactivated? Where in an XM subscription is the subscriber informed of such deactivation, after what time period of non-use?" Your written answers to my questions will be gratefully appreciated. Sincerely, Claude Barnhart --


Claude Barnhart, CP? Certified Paralegal
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[email protected] wrote:
Dear Mr. Barnhart,

Thank you for contacting XM.

We have received your email and we are more than happy to provide you with the assistance and information that you requested. Your account may be active us however, if your radios is not used often your radio will need to be refreshed.

Unfortunately, we were unable to locate your account using the information that you provided in your email. As such we are unable to provide you with further information. If you could please email us again including any of the following: your account number, your Radio ID (found on Channel 0), or your address and phone number, we would be happy to assist you. Please let us know if you need further assistance.

If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to send an additional email or you may contact a Listener Care Representative directly at 1-800-XM RADIO (800-967-2346). Our Listener Care Centers hours of operation are as follows:

Monday - Saturday: 8 AM - 11 PM ET

Sunday: 8AM - 8PM ET

Thank you,

Khelia

1500 Eckington Place , NE
Washington, DC 20002
www.xmradio.com
Listener Care: 1-800-967-2346


On June 6, 2009 at 9:15 PM, "Barney" wrote: I have reviewed the website at http://www.xmwxweather.com/aviation/, but have been unable to find any explanation to satisfy my original questions. My question(s), again, relate specifically to XM WX/Aviation as it might be available in the cockpit, by subscription: If one has an XM aviation weather subscription, and it is not used regularly, after what period of time might it be deactivated, requiring a telephone call to XM to have it reactivated? Where in an XM subscription is the subscriber informed of such deactivation, after what time period of non-use? Your written answers to my questions will be gratefully appreciated. Thank you, Claude Barnhart --


Claude Barnhart, CP? Certified Paralegal
Powered byUbuntu-Linux
[email protected] wrote:
Dear Mr. Barnhart,

Thank you for contacting XM.

It would be our pleasure to provide you with the assistance you are requesting.

We would however like to advise you that, for additional information on the subscription requirement and specifications of our weather subscription, please contact our weather department directly by calling 1-256-319-9679.

If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to send an additional email or you may contact a Listener Care Representative directly at 1-800-XM RADIO (800-967-2346). Our Listener Care Centers' hours of operation are as follows:

Monday-Saturday 8 AM - 11 PM ET
Sunday 8 AM - 8 PM ET

Thank you,
Peta -Gay

XM Radio Inc.
1500 Eckington Place NE
Washington, D.C. 20002
www.xmradio.com
XM Listener Care: 1-800-967-2346



On June 6, 2009 at 8:23 AM, [email protected] wrote:


The following feedback was submitted on Sat Jun 06 08:23:51 EDT 2009

Category 1 = Other
Email Address = [email protected]
Is Subscriber = false
First Name = Claude
Last Name = Barnhart


The message submitted by the user is
======================
I have been considering buying a Garmin 496, and subscribing to XM weather. A friend told me that if the subscription is not used regularly, it might become inactivated and that I would have to call to have it reactivated prior to flight.
Please explain such deactivation: time period between activation, infrequent use, and reactivation.
Thanks,
Barney
 
Seems a bit like theft if they take your money every month and terminate their service.

For two months I didn't fly after my son was born last fall and I didn't have to do anything to reactivate my XM weather. Is this a new policy?
 
XM Weather

I've had XM Weather on my 396 Garmin for a couple of years now. I've subscribed to the $50.00 package and have it deducted from my bank account monthly and have had no problems.

$720.00 a year is a lot of money for a service that I don"t use too regularly, but I feel that it is priceless if it saves my butt when I need it. Besides that, I'd probably waste it on wine, women and song otherwise. (Well, maybe not, since I'm over 65 now!!!!!!!!!!):rolleyes:
 
You know, if we push the "Safety of Flight" button with XM often enough, their lawyers might just get interested an decide that the liability of providing the service just isn't worth it.....

I'd also like to know what is causing your problem, but I doubt you'll find out from their customer "service" people - my experience is that they don't even know that the aviation service exists. Not sure how the heck you find out what is going on though.

I've had three different XM receivers now in about two and a half years of using the system, and have yet to have a deactivation. Of course, I am on the system every flight, and that is pretty much every other day.

I strongly agree with you that you would not want to launch into bad weather expecting the service to work without knowing in advance that it is there. I consider it the same as a Mag or GPS check - if I need it, I make sure it is working before I leave the ground. And, because it is single-string, I never put myself in a position where I have no "out" if the XM weather is lost - which is really a point I think we all agree on. It helps if the tool is there to AVOID weather - not PENETRATE it.

Let us all know if you get a more definitive answer.

Paul
 
I started with WX-Worx weather on a Fujitsu tablet touch screen with all the wires and antennas and all the PITA that went with that. I had a terrible time with the tablet locking up, but never with the XM.

As soon as the 396 was available I bought one and I have been paying the $50/month since. Happily, I might add. Downlink weather is the single biggest advancement in aviation safety since the "D" cell flashlight.. (imagine flying at night without a flashlight.. open cockpit at night.. those guys went clang when they walked, but I digress.)

Admittedly I fly alot, but I have NEVER had to reactivate the XM reciever, except when i changed from the tablet to the 396....

If I had a 396 and did not fly much, I would put it in my truck and hook the music to the aux input.... I dont drive anywhere but to work and to the airport, >8000 miles/year, so a GPS in the truck is crazy.... 400 hrs in airplanes..... FWIW, I flew the Rocket just under 200 hrs last year and the trip statistics on the -430 shows an average groundspeed of 193.5 kts over 49,000 miles since WAAS upgrade. That is 38000 miles in the Rocket last year plus the time in my Baron and a bunch of warbirds..... Every minute of it with weather and music. I don't leave the pattern without it.

Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
 
XM uses a key system ... the 'key' is sent to your receiver with your XM subscription. The key has expire date, as long as you have a valid subscription and your XM receiver has been used before the key expires, they (XM) updates the 'key' expire date during use.


It should never expire in use ... only if you haven't used it in a while.

They set the expire date on a random schedule ... this helps reduce the attemps to hack the XM product.
 
I use XM weather everyday. The 496 sits on the dash of my truck (when I'm not flying 250 hours a year) and I plug it in mornings and leave it on all day. Twice in 3 years I have needed to call and have the operator "refresh" my radio ID number and 20 mins later it is working. I had it happen in the air a month ago (it didn't work from start up) and I called them from the air, the gal "refreshed" my ID and in 20 mins it was working fine again.

I doubt if XM arbitrarily "deactivates" your unit, rather it seems to be a system glitch in which XM needs to "refresh" or "reboot" your XM ID number. We are talking about satilite communication and ten's of thousands of radio ID's being checked, and cross checked with current account info. "Hang ups" are bound to happen. You never had a problem with your computer?

Put the XM 800 number (800-967-2346) in your cell phone and load your radio ID in the phone as an address so you will have it when you call. The folks at XM are great to work with IMHO.
 
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n468ac said:
XM uses a key system ... the 'key' is sent to your receiver with your XM subscription. The key has expire date, as long as you have a valid subscription and your XM receiver has been used before the key expires, they (XM) updates the 'key' expire date during use.


It should never expire in use ... only if you haven't used it in a while.

They set the expire date on a random schedule ... this helps reduce the attemps to hack the XM product.
Click to expand...

What would cause the system to "hangup" or "freeze" and not load info into my 496? It happens so infrequently I can't really give you much more info on what I did other than just turn it on.
 
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Geico266 said:
What would cause the system to "hangup" or "freeze" and not load info into my 496? It happens so infrequently I can't really gkive you much more info on what I did other than just turn it on.
Click to expand...


I'm sorry that I don't know ... it's been over 8 years since I worked for a company hired by XM to evaluate their 'key' system activation. At that time their system expected the receivers to be used 4 days a week one hour a day.
 
Ironflight said:
You know, if we push the "Safety of Flight" button with XM often enough, their lawyers might just get interested an decide that the liability of providing the service just isn't worth it.....

Let us all know if you get a more definitive answer.

Paul
Click to expand...

I'm glad I was not the only one thinking the same thing as I was reading the, what sounded like, an interrogatory "note" to XM.

I have WX weather on my GRT HX and leave the map page showing weather on the initial boot. The only problem I have ever had is the radar image being a few minutes out of norm.

Sounds to me his friend just needed to be re-pinged.

Like the commercial, I don't leave home without it and use it only as an additional tool in situational awareness.

As a side note, during my rebuild I didn't use my XM for 2-3 months. Upon introduction of electrons, the XM weather popped up on the screen as if I had used it the day before.
 
Happened twice with GDL69, never with 496

My last airplane had a GDL69 coupled to MX20 for weather. Twice it was deactivated. Once after a long maintenance down time. That was annoying, but I didn't feel to bad about. it.

The other was on a trip to Orcas Island (WA) from Southern CA. It worked on the way to the island, but less than a week later on the way home it didn't. I didn't notice it till in the air. There were thunderstorms along the route in northern CA, and, well its an interesting story for another time.

It hasn't happened even once with my 496, and I has been unused for up to 2 months. I've had the 496 for almost 2 years.

Nevertheless, after the Orcas Island incident, I include a check of weather capability in my pre-flight. It takes a while to load all the data, so I look for the "waiting for data" message. If I know there is going to be "weather" along the route, I wait for weather to load before departing.

Also, I have the XM phone# required to reactivate it in my cell phone justin case.
 
I've been through this several times. I've even been dropped when I'm flying cross country. I've had XM in the morning and not in the afternoon. I told them I wasn't happy. The XM folks were very polite, but they expect me to sit still with the unit on for 20 minutes while it finds itself. It's not something I can rely on anymore.
Harmon
 
XM WX and Radio only = same issues, 'refresh

The 'refresh' problem . . .

I have 4 XM units, three car based (not OE) and one home installation, and they all suffer from refresh needs from time to time. Some 6x a year, some once a year or less. I have lost connectivity while the system was on - home unit (the 6x per year) is easily on 5hrs per day, every day - if I'm home, it's on - and it's the one most likely to drop out while in use. Something about the explanation doesn't ring true. Sure the refresh thing is no big deal (terra-based at least), but you need an ISP or phone and the numbers and the account PW and all of that.

A 496 is in my panel, not WX enabled this time, but plan it when I fly.

So I'm watching the thread.

Rick 90432
 
mannanj said:
I've had XM Weather on my 396 Garmin for a couple of years now. I've subscribed to the $50.00 package and have it deducted from my bank account monthly and have had no problems.

$720.00 a year is a lot of money for a service that I don"t use too regularly, but I feel that it is priceless if it saves my butt when I need it. Besides that, I'd probably waste it on wine, women and song otherwise. (Well, maybe not, since I'm over 65 now!!!!!!!!!!):rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Mannan you drink Miller Light , you can't sing and the women ,,, well Becky would have a problem with that . You better stick with XM
 
Geico266 said:
I use XM weather everyday. The 496 sits on the dash of my truck (when I'm not flying 250 hours a year) and I plug it in mornings and leave it on all day. Twice in 3 years I have needed to call and have the operator "refresh" my radio ID number and 20 mins later it is working. I had it happen in the air a month ago (it didn't work from start up) and I called them from the air, the gal "refreshed" my ID and in 20 mins it was working fine again.

I doubt if XM arbitrarily "deactivates" your unit, rather it seems to be a system glitch in which XM needs to "refresh" or "reboot" your XM ID number. We are talking about satilite communication and ten's of thousands of radio ID's being checked, and cross checked with current account info. "Hang ups" are bound to happen. You never had a problem with your computer?

Put the XM 800 number (800-967-2346) in your cell phone and load your radio ID in the phone as an address so you will have it when you call. The folks at XM are great to work with IMHO.
Click to expand...


I have had to refresh my XM a couple of times , the guy form XM gave me this link www.xmradio.com/refresh/ you can key in your ID number and do the refresh thing from your PC .
 
XM weather, like any complicated system, or mechanical device, can fail. There are a multitude of reasons why it could fail, with the "reset" issue being just one of them. Anyone who uses XM weather in flight should always have a Plan B, just in case it fails.
 
Receiver Failure this am

This morning when I took off I had XM WX and about 40 minutes in the receiver failed, (according to the GRT), not an activation problem. I'll see if I can sort it out tomorrow.
 
wx worx receiver fail update

Work fine this am and went down again in the afternoon. Could be the interface with the GRT as it seems to have power...

Hans
 
I had to refresh my 496 a few times early on. Somewhere I heard (don't remember where) that if the XM antenna is being removed from the unit on the occasions when it is taken from the plane that this happens. Since I began leaving the antenna connected it hasn't had to be refreshed and that has been over a year and a half now. Who knows, it just might be luck that has kept mine from dropping weather, but until proven otherwise that antenna isn't getting unplugged.
 
XM Activation Explanation

I once worked for a company that sold XM aviation systems. We were constantly receiving tech support calls for XM receivers that had to be re-activated. XM does require re-activation if a radio has not been used for "a while", to ensure that you have a valid account, and they do not explain exactly how or when this will happen.

The best explanation on the Web is by AnywhereMap (a competitor to the company I worked for.) Their explanation can be found at http://docs.controlvision.com/pages/xm_act.php
 
One thing that we learned early on is to update the system software in your X96 regularly... That seems to be a help with several small gremlins in the system.. All in all, I have found it to be an incredibly robust system...

One fault is the cable strain relief on the hockey puck, mine was looking tough, but still working fine, so I took some of that magic self vulcanizing tape that they sell at trade shows. It worked great....

Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
 
Anyone know the number to call to have it reactivated? I have not had this issue with my 396 but would like to have the number in my notebook when I fly to OSH.
 
RV7AV8R said:
Anyone know the number to call to have it reactivated? I have not had this issue with my 396 but would like to have the number in my notebook when I fly to OSH.
Click to expand...

Try this, it is a pearl. :)

Geico266 said:
Put the XM 800 number (800-967-2346) in your cell phone and load your radio ID in the phone as an address so you will have it when you call. The folks at XM are great to work with IMHO.
Click to expand...
 
Geico266 said:
Put the XM 800 number (800-967-2346) in your cell phone and load your radio ID in the phone as an address so you will have it when you call. The folks at XM are great to work with IMHO.
Click to expand...

What great advice Geico! As for my experience, I use a 496 with XM in my medivac, worth every penny for tracking the storms that pop up here in southern AZ. I have never had my subscription shut down for no reason, even though I go for long periods not using the weather feature (as you may know, it wears the battery down rapidly if your not hard wired, good for running the battery down for a good recharge though). Hope this helps. Glenn
 
RV7AV8R said:
Anyone know the number to call to have it reactivated? I have not had this issue with my 396 but would like to have the number in my notebook when I fly to OSH.
Click to expand...

If you don't have the number and activation code in your pilot's operating handbook, perhaps you should have a little talk with whoever wrote your book, or even correct the omission.

Pat
 
I don't think that this is an acceptable answer, so I cancelled my subscription and elevated the call to a supervisor to tell them EXACTLY why I did so.

While the TRFs were nice and the weather handy, I've gotten by for 30 years with checking those items before taking off - and if I save the money for a couple of years that I would have wasted on XM I'll be able to get the service free through ADS-B.
 
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