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Wow - Door Latches and Pin Process

CharlieWaffles

CharlieWaffles

Well Known Member
Wow, you know I've been reading about how difficult the doors, pins and latches are on these RV10s and was I under-prepared! This has been the first time in the entire build I've quite a work session early because the build was fustrating and unprogressive. One day was just fitting plastic door pin guides and after market metal door frame guide (a single one). And that was a 7 hour day.

Luckily, after a brake I formulated a new approach and did some more research. There are so many moving pieces and angles that its not hard to see now why this is a challenge. Tweaking a door plastic guide changes the geometry of the pins going in the frame, etc... I finally found some great hints on VAF and after an entire month, I can say I have ONE door latching system working.

Here are some of the hints I gleaned (mostly already on VAF in other forms)

1) The door pin blocks need to be very close 1/8" to the door jam blocks. This will keep the door from moving forward and aft as the pins are latched.

2) Make sure your placement of these blocks is set BEFORE drilling your door frame holes. Changing the blocks or their location will distort the pin travel. I originally built with the Van's door blocks but changed to the PlaneAround ones as I was using the 180 kit. Better approach would be to use the Vans ones for the initial drilling to the DOOR, but change to the PlaneAround ASAP.

3) Test fit the door jam blocks (any of them) to make sure the distance from the inner door shell to the pin hole is correct. I found I needed to sand a 1/32" off of my door jam blocks so that it wouldnt distort the door as it was closed or cause a massive amount of friction.

4) The door frame blocks (using metal PlaneAround) can be very fickle on their placement. I found that the best way to get the best geometry after drill them was to go 1 size large for the bolt holes. Leave the bolts loose and actuated the latch. The pins will insert and put the blocks in the correct position. You will need to use some pliers and a wrench to tighten the bolt to keep the location or it will move when the door is re-opened.

5) A very small amount of grease in the door jam blocks will greatly ease the required pressure to actuated the handle. I went from "just ok" with the resistence to "very happy".

6) The C-1006C Handle Pivot block of the gear mechanism is very hard to assemble in the door pocket. I mistakenly shaved the inner dimension to make the racket arms and gear fit more easily, but now there is too much slop. This will have to be replaced when the door comes off.

7) The same piece (C-1006C) appears to be MARGINALLY too tall for the pocket. If you look, it's squared off back side is being pushed up slightly by the radius of the fiberglass pocket. I think this is causing the distortion and friction that some people report when the screws are tightened. I suspect radiusing this back side will work pretty well.

Oh, did I say I hate these doors?????
 
I feel your pain, but I think I was lucky. I did all the fabricating ,glueing ,door hinges and latches mostly by myself. I was pretty frustrated with the slow process and had just about had enough when one of the build partners asked if I would be offended if he took over the final fitting. I took his hand and skook it and said thank you, that's how offended I was. With over 100hrs and one and a halve years of flying ,we are still both very pleased with the fit and function of our doors. We has Sean's center latch and I would not consider anything else.
Ron
 
It is all down hill after this, except for a little bump at the pants and cowling. Keep truckin'. At least 386 of us know it is all worth it! Bad memories are finally gone after 29 hrs in left seat.
 
Wait till you put the seals on. There will be a lot more resistance from pins trying to compress the seals to close the doors. Yes, the doors suck from an assembly point and more importantly, a design point. The doors, IMHO, are the worst design point of the entire aircraft. They are flimsy, prone to wind damage, and very poorly designed from a latching standpoint. One only has to do a search on "doors" to discover all the issues. I kept hoping someone would redesign the doors with a hinge similar to the Cirrus.
With that said, if you purchase an aftermarket center latch, an aftermarket handle, and aftermarket lock, and an aftermarket outside flush handle, thus adding at least $1K to the kit, Your doors will work and look very nice. Vans are you listening?
As Stein would say, my two cents.............
 
Actually I have been doing all my pin work with the seals in place. So rather than repeating the fitting process, it's been an all at once approach. It's do-able and honestly, not all that tough to do procedurally, but knowing what pieces go where and how things should fit, that is the key. Just too much to write down easily to give to someone else. There's a ton of info to digest, it's almost a whole other learning curve as moving to fiberglass itself was.
 
Yes. I have stock latches, planearound center latch, billet door guides and bullet tip for the rod ends.

I am currently adding in a IFlyRV10 flush LOCK set - not the exterior latch, just the flush lock. Found a way to use it with the stock handles. My doors came out really well and I dont really see the center latch as having to pull the door in at all. The pins seem to be doing in the work and the center latch is securing, and helping with the movement, but isn't overtly pressuring the door as it latches into places.

I am considering working with a local machinest to change the exterior handle. My idea is to eliminate the "button/open ended tube" that you have to push. The idea is for the handle itself to be sealed as it comes stock, and rather than drill out the hole for the "button", the handle will be pushed in and rotated in one movement. Just trying to figure out if its work the cost and if it's resellable to other RV'ers possibly.
 
the handle sounds like a great idea. I purchased the delrin blocks and the side tapered pins rather than the aluminum blocks with the bullet pins. I wondered how well the aluminum block pins would have worked. It sounds like you got it figured out! Did you use the Mcmaster Carr door seal or the stock seal?
 
I am using the McMaster seals. Sean @ PlaneAround mentioned he liked the Delrin with the 180 kit, but I had originally got the 90 degree kit and like the billet instead. It takes a little bit of work to get it all to go together, but I have less than 1/32" of forward/aft movement when the pins are actuated.
 
Procedures

The doors are a pain. I have had countless phone calls on door questions or procedures and there probably isn't one perfect way to tackle them. Everything changes depending on aftermarket parts and building steps. It also seems like every step of the way the door fit changes with hinges, pins, seals, blocks, etc. I think I will put a newer video on youtube to show the whole picture and the operation for newbies. I'm always happy to answer questions if anyone has them on their doors if they buy my stuff or not. Also, if anyone messes up their parts during construction, like drilling in the wrong spot or over sanding I, will sell them individually.
Here is a great install from a customer:
http://www.rvten.com/finish9.asp
BTW, I include a machined middle pushrod now so you don't have to make it.
 
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At this point, you're just getting started. You're probably 25% through the process.

You've still got to put the door seals on, and to fit the seals, blend the low spots, etc.... They make look nice now, but your eye will get better and you'll see just how much you're missing.

It's a long road. Hang in there.
 
Ouch!

Phil, I am just a bit behind Mark on the doors and after reading your post, I'm thinking your honesty might not be the best policy! I think I'd rather be lied to ;). Wish me luck!
 
Just be careful.

In case you missed my post about a pin NOT penetrating the forward structure in my -10, be very sure that the pins protrude through the door jambs fully.

Four -10's, that we know about, have already lost doors!

Best,
 
I agree with Bill. They are a piece of cake. Fabricating and fitting the doors, even fabricating my own center door latch similar to Sean's design, was a satisfying experience. Van's fiberglass parts are excellent and require minimal effort to fit and finish.
 
I agree. As an age old sage with the doors now, I can sincerely say I now know why people spend so much time on the doors. They are simply so much fun and I would be in tears if I didnt get all the time I could with them.
 
Those doors leap into place. There's no way you should have to spend more than 5 hours on a door, start to finish. Geez.
 
Shoot, mine came pre-installed. The only reason I'm not flying yet is I'm having trouble plumbing the lavatory and wet bar.
 
You guys!

You mean the fiberglass fairy has stopped delivering fitted doors if you put the parts under your pillow?

I mean, really!:D
 
Now that's better!

So much better! This thread turned from negative to positive very quickly and I think the positive reinforcement will help future builders. They can now search for "doors" and find words like "excellent", "easy", "fairies" and such. When I searched for doors, I ran into Bill Watsons post which was "F%#>\?{^}KING doors!!!!". I think we've come a long way! :)
 
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