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Wing Kit Option Recommendations?

ppilotmike

ppilotmike

Well Known Member
Seeing as how RV-10 wing kits require an 8 week lead time, I'm planning to order mine to save money before the prices go up on February 1st (I was told it might be 5%-unofficially). Vans lists the options below, and I would like your recommendations on what to get or not get, order now, or order later for the wing kit.

1) Landing lights - I've heard that the Vans OEM lights are weak and was thinking about going with brighter LEDs or something aftermarket. Thoughts?
2) Electric aileron trim - Van's OEM is described as "independent from AP". Aren't they all tht way, or do the new-fangled APs control aileron trim too? I would like to use a hat switch to control both elevator and aileron trim, will this work like that or should I go with an aftermarket solution?
3) Float fuel sending units - Are these more/less accurate than aftermarket systems? Will they work with glass panels?
4) Anything else that's a good thing to order at this time that's not included on the Vans order form?

Thanks in advance!
 
Mike, go for the leading edge lights.

As to aileron trim, are you going to have an A/P?

I have a TruTrack A/P, and do not miss not having trim on the roll axis.

Float senders should work with any EFIS. Capacitance units are alleged to be finicky about switching to a different fuel, so is you use mogas etc, they may not read the same.
 
Mike S said:
Mike, go for the leading edge lights.

As to aileron trim, are you going to have an A/P?

I have a TruTrack A/P, and do not miss not having trim on the roll axis.

Float senders should work with any EFIS. Capacitance units are alleged to be finicky about switching to a different fuel, so is you use mogas etc, they may not read the same.
Click to expand...

Ditto, but I did install the aileron trim as well as the Trutrak autotrim.

You'll also want to install your roll servo, which you can buy a la carte early with out a price penalty from all the popular vendors.

Are you going to install AOA? You can get the wing kit from AFS to install now if you are going to go with their products.

Install the 3/4" flexible conduit you get from van's, so you can run your wing tip lighting later.
 
Mike S said:
Mike, go for the leading edge lights.

As to aileron trim, are you going to have an A/P?

I have a TruTrack A/P, and do not miss not having trim on the roll axis.

Float senders should work with any EFIS. Capacitance units are alleged to be finicky about switching to a different fuel, so is you use mogas etc, they may not read the same.
Click to expand...

Mike,

So if I understand, you're saying Vans lights get the job done? I've heard they aren't so good during night landings. I plan to have an autopilot for sure. Are you saying I don't need aileron trim? I don't anticipate using any other fuel than 100LL, however change could be forced upon all of us. Are the capacitance units more accurate?
 
rleffler said:
Ditto, but I did install the aileron trim as well as the Trutrak autotrim.
Click to expand...

I figured the aileron trim would help with fuel imbalance and prevent loading the AP servos all the time in cruise. Then again, should I be worried about that? Are the APs good enough handling the roll with normal aileron inputs to give a nice smooth ride, or do they gently rock along?
 
Wing Kit accessories

Mike

I am in th3e middle of my wings now. Just finished primering the outboard leading edge parts.

Here is how i see it.

1. I would and am doing Aileron trim for the cost it is cheap and it can integrate with the AP if you get the auto trim feature. I do believe
2. I went with the Vans lights. BUT Upgraded to the Planelights.com HID system for the $250 cost it is well worth it. And I am not cutting big holes in my wings to get HOD Lights. They put out over 4400 lumins each. And everything i have read on comments from people who use them, they rave about how good they work.
3. I went the Capacitance fuel indicator route for $60 in cost and is very easy to install and i will have very accurate fuel gauges from empty to full, is very important to me.
4. I am also going with Gertz heated pitot tube and mount, and Aero LED Wing tip and Tail position LED System. They have a set designed to fit the wing tips perfectly.
5. I am also going with AFS 3 Screen EFIS so the AOA sensing kit goes in the Rt wing leading edge.

That's my 2 cents worth.
 
ppilotmike said:
John,

Does the AOA sensing kit come with your EFIS or is it separate?
Click to expand...

Yes, you can get it both ways. There is a wing kit that is needed for all installs. If you have an AFS EFIS, you just have to purchase the license to enable, othewise you need to procure the AFS display and AOA computer box.
 
ppilotmike said:
I figured the aileron trim would help with fuel imbalance and prevent loading the AP servos all the time in cruise. Then again, should I be worried about that? Are the APs good enough handling the roll with normal aileron inputs to give a nice smooth ride, or do they gently rock along?
Click to expand...

I've not noticed any issues once properly set up in any of the 10s I've flown. My 10 isn't flying yet.
 
ppilotmike said:
Mike,

So if I understand, you're saying Vans lights get the job done? I've heard they aren't so good during night landings. I plan to have an autopilot for sure. Are you saying I don't need aileron trim? I don't anticipate using any other fuel than 100LL, however change could be forced upon all of us. Are the capacitance units more accurate?
Click to expand...

I think he's saying, and I know I'm say, go for the leading edge Duckworks HID. They're pretty easy to install when building your wings.

If you read the Aeroelectric Matronics list, you'll see some discussion about some of the less expensive HIDs being noisy. Like primers to use, there is quite a bit of bias in the recommendations. Read what's posted and make your own decisions.

You want HIDs, not the standard Van's kit. There are vendors that sell HIDs for the wing tip. In my opinion, I prefer lighting to be closer to the nose to light up more of the centerline. It's difficult for wingtip lighting to do that.

You also need to understand that everyone will have a different opinion on what's the best lighting for night landings. What I may prefer, somebody else may not. That's the nice thing about experimentals, everyone gets to decide for themselves.

bob

I just saw these posted:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=81483

I would grab them from Rick. They're going sell soon.
 
Last edited:
Mike, yes, go with the leading edge lights.

I kept the stock tip lights also, but am using them for wig wag. Mounted them flat on the angled part of the tip, not with the springs/wedges, so they point outboard about 20 degrees or so.

As to the aileron trim, your call.

The autopilot does just fine in my case. I switch tanks every half hour.
 
It's a special switch that connects two lights (landing and taxi) and pulses them like a police car headlights, switching each light on and off at opposite times.
 
Mike,

TT ap is great! No aileron trim needed unless you let fuel levels vary too much. Even then not needed with ap on, as very little stick pressures needed in roll. Save the money/weight. Pitch trim is used more when flying solo(fwd cg) and barely with family on board(aft cg). I have ap servo torque set really low and it never slips even with ap is asking me to retrim. Retrimming only needed if you exceed 600 fpm descents. I have ail/pitch trim on panel. No relays/no autotrim needed.

Duckworks HID's with wig wag in LE are great. Slight hum at lamp startup heard on intercom but nothing after 10 sec.

Float senders are fine as a backup to my red cube in the tunnel. They indicate 23 gal until 7 gal are used out of tank. They are accurate enough to keep you from running out of fuel if you head to an aprt when both read 7 gal. I rely on fuel flow for primary. It is accurate to within 0.5 gal.

Get yourself a pitot mount and doubler installed before finishing bottom skin riveting. Angle of attack is ahrs based on my GRT and works very well. Van's stall warning works fine.

Don't forget 2 qts of proseal for tanks. I ran all wiring plus spare and pitot tubing while building so no conduit. Just snap bushings.
 
I'm with Bob about installing the trim as well as the AP servo. I've got AP in my -6A but rarely use it. I may use it more in the -10 but I still want trim when I'm not using the AP.
 
Mike,
You've gotten lots of good suggestions, but I notice you had a question or two that weren't fully answered.

The Vans landing lights are acceptable, but I have only used them in wig-wag. Doing it again, I would probably go for something in the leading edge.

The fuel floats work just fine, and the major limitation has already been pointed out - mine only read up to 22 gallons per side. The remaining 7 or 8 has to be burned off before it reads accurately. However, I really rely on my GRT fuel flow/fuel remaining for more accurate numbers.

The Vans conduit is a good idea but it has drawbacks. You have to drill holes for 3/4" convoluted conduit all the way. The convoluted part begins to interfere when you are pulling wires later on. A smooth conduit would be better. The snap bushing suggestion is good, but you will need to get good at Lacing in tight spaces.

I really like Vans aileron trim, and it works on my coolie hat and the a/p.

I have 3 (count 'em) three, AoA systems, and the only one I really use is the one on top of the glare shield. Whatever system you pick, put the indicator on the glare shield.

One last thought, whatever auto pilot you choose, there will be a servo in one of the wings at the aileron bell crank. Get that in before you close up the last skin.

Good luck,
John
 
1. Run extra wires to the tail and thru the wings. You can always pull them out later but it seems you always forget something and need more wires.
2. Do the pitot tube support before the wing skin.
3. Contrary to others, I recommend NOT installing autopilot servos now. Reasons: (a) I put in a Trio servo after the wing skin was on, thru the bellcrank access hole, without trouble; (b) Real reason: things like autopilots change fast, by the time you're really ready for it you may want something completely different than what you're thinking now.
 
AoA

John, would you elaborate on your three AoA systems, likes/dislikes, lessons learned, recommendations.

Thanks,

Tom

johngoodman said:
Mike,

[...]

I have 3 (count 'em) three, AoA systems, and the only one I really use is the one on top of the glare shield. Whatever system you pick, put the indicator on the glare shield.

[...]

John
Click to expand...
 
tkoelzer said:
John, would you elaborate on your three AoA systems, likes/dislikes, lessons learned, recommendations.

Thanks,

Tom
Click to expand...

Sure,
My backup EFIS is a D-10A with the Dynon heated pitot tube and AoA. Works good but hard to see on short final.
The GRT HX has a very nice AoA symbol that is derived from other sources. I really like it but, again, hard to see on final.
I also have a "Lift Reserve Indicator" that is purely mechanical. I have it mounted against the center windshield post in clear sight for landing. Easy to calibrate and interpret.
My recommendation is put the indicator directly in your line of sight for landing - brand shouldn't matter as long as it's calibrated accurately.

John
 
ppilotmike said:
Seeing as how RV-10 wing kits require an 8 week lead time, I'm planning to order mine to save money before the prices go up on February 1st (I was told it might be 5%-unofficially). Vans lists the options below, and I would like your recommendations on what to get or not get, order now, or order later for the wing kit.

1) Landing lights - I've heard that the Vans OEM lights are weak and was thinking about going with brighter LEDs or something aftermarket. Thoughts?
2) Electric aileron trim - Van's OEM is described as "independent from AP". Aren't they all tht way, or do the new-fangled APs control aileron trim too? I would like to use a hat switch to control both elevator and aileron trim, will this work like that or should I go with an aftermarket solution?
3) Float fuel sending units - Are these more/less accurate than aftermarket systems? Will they work with glass panels?
4) Anything else that's a good thing to order at this time that's not included on the Vans order form?

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

Hi Mike. I am a bit late to this, but here is my $.02 worth.

1. I have been using the stock Van's landing lights since day one, and as I have mentioned elsewhere, I consider them just barely adequate. I don't do much night flying, so have not been inspired to do anything until now. My RH halogen bulb burned out a couple of days ago, so I decided to make a change. I have been watching the HID/LED light options evolve and have decided to order the PlaneLights.com drop in replacement HID's for my airplane. They get good reviews, the price is very good, customer service seems to be excellent, and I am not interested in cutting openings in my leading edges for Duckworths at this stage of the game. If I was building my wings from scratch, I might feel differently. I will let you know how I like the PlaneLights in a week or two.

2. The aileron trim is not a necessity if you have an autopilot. However, it is very nice for hand flying. Even small fuel imbalances or pax load imbalance can make a surprising difference in aileron trim. It is a cheap option, and easy to install, so I am glad I installed it. I enjoy having aileron and pitch trim on the hat switch on the stick.

3. I don't know much about the capacitance fuel indication system, but can report that the float system is simple, inexpensive, and works fine. I am not aware of any EFIS system routinely used on RV's that the float sensors will not work with just fine.

Glad to know you are moving right along on the kit.

Kind regards,
 
Planelights.com HID Lights

David

I just got the plane lights hid kit for Christmas. Very nice looks like good quality.

I have seen that if you oval the opening in the in front of the lights with the oval slanting tord the nose of the plane it really helps direct light in front and more center of the plane for taxing. I will be doing that for sure.

Please let me know what you think of them as i am very curious how well they work.

Everything i have read they are awesome not a negative note as of yet.

Thanks
 
jc11378 said:
David

I just got the plane lights hid kit for Christmas. Very nice looks like good quality.

I have seen that if you oval the opening in the in front of the lights with the oval slanting tord the nose of the plane it really helps direct light in front and more center of the plane for taxing. I will be doing that for sure.

Please let me know what you think of them as i am very curious how well they work.

Everything i have read they are awesome not a negative note as of yet.

Thanks
Click to expand...
John, I think I read a post earlier about ovaling (I doubt if that is a word:rolleyes:) the openings and plan to take a look at that as well. Glad to hear that the kit looks good. Mine is enroute and I will hopefully have it operational within a week or two.
 
Planelights HID Landing Lights

I've installed the Planelights HID Landing Lights and got in a night landing with them tonight.
These are real winners. The MR-16 bulbs fit right in the stock Van's bracket. I did oval out the inboard side of the landing light hole in the wingtip just a bit as others recommended. Installing the ballast on the end rib took about 15 minutes on each wing. I had to crimp on new terminals to my existing power and ground wire, and that was it. The supplied wire harness is first rate.
I went with the 35 watt HID lights and the difference in light between them and the old 75 watt halogens is very impressive. The tower controller here in New Smyrna Beach commented on how bright they were. He said "you look like a 777 out there!" They wig-wag just fine after a short warm up interval. I am sorry I do not have any photos of the install or the before and after light shots. Steve at Planelights.com was great to work with, the price is reasonable, and the product is a huge improvement.
 
Thanks for the feedback, Dave.

dmaib said:
I've installed the Planelights HID Landing Lights and got in a night landing with them tonight.
These are real winners. The MR-16 bulbs fit right in the stock Van's bracket. I did oval out the inboard side of the landing light hole in the wingtip just a bit as others recommended. Installing the ballast on the end rib took about 15 minutes on each wing. I had to crimp on new terminals to my existing power and ground wire, and that was it. The supplied wire harness is first rate.
I went with the 35 watt HID lights and the difference in light between them and the old 75 watt halogens is very impressive. The tower controller here in New Smyrna Beach commented on how bright they were. He said "you look like a 777 out there!" They wig-wag just fine after a short warm up interval. I am sorry I do not have any photos of the install or the before and after light shots. Steve at Planelights.com was great to work with, the price is reasonable, and the product is a huge improvement.
Click to expand...

Good information to know. I still haven't decided between going with leading edge lights or sticking with tips only. Our baby girl, Amelia is taking up a lot of our time these days, but I'm still trying to get in 15-20 hours a week. I'm about to roll the leading edges of my elevators, install the finished trim tabs and then move on the the tailcone... Slowly, but surely....:)
 
Thread resurrection

Elevators are progressing, then it's just the tail cone and on to the wings. This thread is almost 2 years old and I'm wondering if anyone has any new words of wisdom. I'm planning to order the wings soon after the first of the year.

Thanks all, and HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Jeff
 
Hey, I remember this thread..

Jeff,

Here's my update:

1) I decided to go with the Duckworks leading edge light kits, but just the hardware, no lights.
2) I "went big" with my light package and ordered LED landing lights, strobes and positions from AveoLabs. They are the most expensive, but IMHO the best quality LED lights out there. The landing lights (Hercules) have a lot of nice features built in (i.e. wig wag, overheat protection, several dim/bright settings, taxi/landing settings, etc) and are one package, with no external ballast boxes and wiring. I like to night fly, and I will look like a 747 with my light package.
3) Still haven't yet installed aileron trim, but likely will do that, even with AP.
4) Bought a Saf-Air pitot mast install kit, along with the static port kit. Haven't decided on the pitot or AP servo yet. Leaning towards either Garmin or Dynon/AFS. I will likely get a heated pitot.

Good luck and KPTR! ;)
 
Landing Lights

Well I finally got the PlaneLights.com 50 watt HID wing tip landing lights out of the box, hooked them up to a battery and wow i could light up the house 3-4 doors down. Amazing lights. One of the bulbs was dead out of the box. Called the company the next day and they sent me a rma and a new one showed up in less then a week, Works great.

One important thing. Planelights.com is no longer on line. I did some research and Duck works sells the exact same product for right at the same price.

I can not wait to get these mounted in the tips.

I like the tip lights better then the leading edge light due to the fact i am not cutting up the leading edges.

Wings are almost finished.
 
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