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wing bolts

godspeed

godspeed

Well Known Member
ok, been fighting with these all day, got the nuts on
but after making up the bolts / nuts, looks like
I can't use washers on both sides of the spar, what has everyone else done on the 9a models ? also what
type wrench did you use on the nuts on the gear bracket sides ? can't seem to get a wrench on the nuts, very tight area there.. did you use washers on both sides ? what wrench did you use on the bottom nuts and what torq settings on the torq wrench.. if you use washers on both sides did you have the proper amount of threads sticking out of the nyloc nuts ? taking a break for now but could use the info quick :)

thanks in advance..
sweating bullets in there "south texas"
Danny..
 
Check bolt diameter at top of threads

Danny

Sounds like you have really been fighting the bolts. I am not at the point you are at yet but I believe a washer is used under the nut only since that is what rotates when tightening. I think if you do a search here at VAF or check out some of the better known builders web sites the will have some suggestions to getting access to some of those hard to reach ones. My input here is how difficult was it to install the 7/16 diameter bolts holes. Using a gage pin I measured the diameter of the holes in my center section and I could fit a .436 pin through the holes but not a .437. i also noticed that when the heavy bars were riveted to the web, the web was ever so slightly misaligned with the bar that the holes were out of alignment by .001 or so. The bolts supplied by Vans are NAS close tolerance bolts and that means the diameter of the bolt should be within the tolerance of plus .000" and -.001" along the entire shank of the bolt. Using a micrometer the shanks of some of my bolts at the point on the shank where the threads end measured .4385". Should be .436 to .437. This area tends to swell when the threads are rolled causing a slight diameter increase. When I contacted Vans, they concurred with the swelling and a slight polishing at that point may need to be done to correct the diameter. Also being carful not to touch the holes in the heavy bars, slighty ream the holes in the web that were causing a slight misalignment with a deburring tool or something. If these holes area slightly off or part of the shank of the bolt is .001 or .0015 bigger in diameter then the hole, it will be a real bear to get them in.
 
wing bolts..

My bolt holes lined up perfect, the holes are smaller
couple thousand , freeze the bolts and use wd40 rubber hammer tap tap tap they go right in when the wings are aligned , use the drift pens 1st to get the alignment , thats not the problem, its getting the bottom nuts on so don't put the bolts all the way in
on the bottom till after you get the nut started..
the plans show the washers on the bottom on the head of the bolt and say as needed on the top (you have to torq the bolt head on these) part of my question was because I can't even get an end wrench on the nuts.. and I didn't want to get the nuts started (its a pain in the a$$)
if I need not use the washers on the bottom.. the top bolts and nuts are easy.. and both washers look fine on each end (plenty of bolt length) but the bottom ones.. dude.. its very tight with the brake line , fuel line , control stick, and I am a little guy.. 5'6 ,155lbs
can't imagine being 6'4 220 trying to get in there..
I don't know what wrench to use on those so I can torq the bolts.. crows foot maybe ? grind off a wrench , just trying to figure out what others have done.. also did yall get the weight off the gear before torqing these bolts ?


Danny..
 
I used a long screwdriver with tape to fish the nuts and washers down onto the bolts. Hold the nut up against the end of the bolt and turn the bolt into the nut. To hold the lower nuts while tightening and torquing, I had to grind the appropriate size wrenches til they were like tuning forks. Obviously you will need to torque on the bolt for most, or all, of the lower bolts. Allow some extra torque for the drag on the bolt, which really should not be too much. Mine turned fairly easily. I've worked on tight things like this a lot in my career, so I have gotten very adept at sneaking things like this together. Magnets, duct seal, tape, rubber bands, tape on fingers..... you get very creative after a while.

Good luck, the flying is a whole lot better.

Roberta
 
head way with the bolts

Just got this , made some headway "very tight in there" got the bolts done well I don't have the exact torq yet.. couldn't find them on the plans and lost my little cheat sheet that had each torq for size bolts
I do remember 25-30 for the an3, but I don't remember the an4 , ect and up if anyone knows those or if the wing torq is different, I did grind a
end wrench down to work.. didn't have any other
choice , if anyone just got done with this process
those an4 bolt and 7/16 bolt torq settings would
really help at this point.. all the bolts are installed
even those other ones that go to the nutplates partway through , I hope I never have to take these off again ;-) its hot in texas , soaking wet.. all the way down to my socks.. the flying better be more fun than this.. what was I thinking build my own airplane!

Danny..
 
Freezing?

I'm not sure how this could work....

Taking steel from 0 F (my freezer) to a 72 F workshop would only give a 0.00022 inch change for steel that measures 0.437 inches.

This is a lot less that the hole size difference numbers quoted above.

I think the hammer had more effect, and the WD-40 prevented galling.... :)

Steel expansion is about 13 x 10-6 per degree C

Dry ice would be better....

gil in Tucson
 
FREEZING

I only froze the bolts to help cool off the inside of the airplane :) i don't think it helped any and they were not that tight.. those bolts go in fine with slight
taps with the hammer.. they are tight but not that bad.. someone told me I might get a thousandth of an inch freezing them.. made you think though.. :)

Danny..

anyone have the an torq settings ? above an3
 
Someone told me....

godspeed said:
.. someone told me I might get a thousandth of an inch freezing them.. made you think though.. :)

Danny..
Click to expand...

Ahh ... the famous "someone told me"

More bad newsgroup info.... check your sources for reliability and accuracy... :)
We need to find that "someone" and send him back to school.... :)

gil in Tucson .... will be part of my Safety presentation at Copperstate... :D
 
cold

ive often wondered how much moisture would condense on the cold bolts as i was trying to install them.esp with the hygroscopic/water displacing lubricants.
 
FREEZING BOLTS

Well I found the someone on the internet that told me about freezing the bolts.. I knew I read it somewhere.. I think you should contact him and
let him have it.. don't hold back..

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/99c827db9baac81b86256b4500596c4e/$FILE/Chapter%2007.pdf

see page 9 of 74 item 7-44, close


7-44. CLOSE-TOLERANCE BOLTS..
maybe it didn't help but I did find the source..
 
Bolt Removal ?

Lets say freezing does help shrink the bolt and it goes in. How do you get it out without galling it? If the bolt diameter is larger than the hole diameter you have an interferance fit. Now you want to turn the bolt to tighten it because you can't turn the nut, doesn't sound like a good idea to me. I have read some horror stories of guys using rivet guns and what not trying to get these bolts in and out. When I built my center section is when I noticed the issue with the swelling at the threads on the shank of the bolt and the minor misalignment of the web. If you took one half of the center section and feed some of the bolts from either the web side or the heavy bar side the bolt would stop where the web and heavy bar meet. Could I have taken a BFH and beat it through, you bet. The problem was that .0005 or .001" misalignment of the web. Some of the bolts when feed from either side would stop at the edge of the hole right where the threads stop and the shank begins. Could I beat it through, sure, but the real problem was the .001 to .0015 swelling of the bolt at the top of the threads, the rest of the shank was fine. I you look in 65-9A under bolt and nut installation there are two types of fit for bolts, light drive and tight drive. Light drive you should be able to use body weight to push it in, tight drive you use a 12 to 14 oz hammer and tap it in. All I'm trying to say is the fit of the bolt here is important and if only reasonable force is needed to install, then fine, but if other than reasonable is required then start looking.
 
Use a rivet gun

Just enoungh room to get it in there and gives a nice controlled push of the bolts thru the spar.Use WD40.

Masking tape on the fingers is the way that worked for me to get the washers and nuts on the threads.

Next time I'm building a tail dragger...:)
 
nodding head, yeah tail dragger

I told everyone I know, if I ever finnish this project (2.5 years now) and starting saying something along the lines, of yeah I think I am going to start on an RV8, lightsport kit or anything else that has airplane in the sentence, please remind me about the times like saturday.. in a very ferm manner.. If I had a dollar for everytime I said, what was I thinking, it could pay for my next rv kit.. :) sometimes I search on here.. for in the search box, "keep pounding those rivets it will be worth it" statement :)


Danny..

ps.. I am sure the tail draggers have some of these, but different troubles too~
 
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