As I get ready to order my 7a emp kit, I'm confused at all the tool kits available. What do I really need?....I know I'll get a nuematic sqeezer, drt2 dimpler, air drill....what else will get me rollin good so I'm not starving for anything to long?...Thanks for the help.....Robb
Van's Air Force
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what tools do I really need
- Thread starter rwshooter
- Start date
N941WR
Legacy Member
There are a lot of tool suggestions out there but a Bench Grinder is not on the list. You should NEVER use a bench grinder with aluminum. 
Do a search on the subject, you will find out why.
A bench top sander and lots of belts and disks are very helpful.
Just remember, whatever tools you buy, you will never be finished buying more.
Somewhere there is a thread on what tools people bought but didn't use. Try searching for that as well.
Do a search on the subject, you will find out why.
A bench top sander and lots of belts and disks are very helpful.
Just remember, whatever tools you buy, you will never be finished buying more.
Somewhere there is a thread on what tools people bought but didn't use. Try searching for that as well.
flytoboat
Well Known Member
Tools needed
Van's has their recommended list here: http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rqd-tool.htm
I was in your place about 4 months ago. Since I too wanted a pneumatic squeezer and DRDT-2, I ended up going with Planetools.com. No regrets.
I deleted the bucking bars from the kit and ordered a tungsten bar from buckingbars.net
Some of the optional tools I have:
Bench grinder for 6" scotchbrite wheel
belt/disc sander
Band saw
Drill press
Die grinders
pneumatic cleco tool
angle drill
bench mounting bracket and foot switch for the squeezer
Most people recommend an aircompressor with an oil sump. (quieter and last longer)
You'll also need specialized tools as you go along, i.e. electrical, plumbing, priming/painting/sanding, etc.
One of your most important tools is a computer and this site
I've spent about $4500 to date, but there's always a new tool to buy
Good luck
Van's has their recommended list here: http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rqd-tool.htm
I was in your place about 4 months ago. Since I too wanted a pneumatic squeezer and DRDT-2, I ended up going with Planetools.com. No regrets.
I deleted the bucking bars from the kit and ordered a tungsten bar from buckingbars.net
Some of the optional tools I have:
Bench grinder for 6" scotchbrite wheel
belt/disc sander
Band saw
Drill press
Die grinders
pneumatic cleco tool
angle drill
bench mounting bracket and foot switch for the squeezer
Most people recommend an aircompressor with an oil sump. (quieter and last longer)
You'll also need specialized tools as you go along, i.e. electrical, plumbing, priming/painting/sanding, etc.
One of your most important tools is a computer and this site
I've spent about $4500 to date, but there's always a new tool to buy
Good luck
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Geico266
Well Known Member
There are a lot of tool suggestions out there but a Bench Grinder is not on the list. You should NEVER use a bench grinder with aluminum.
True, but you can take the grinding wheels off the grinder and replace them with a wire wheel & a 3M Scotchbright wheel and you have one of the most used power tools in my shop. JMHO.
grinders
I'd swap the belt and bench grinders on the prior post list.
I just bought a Ryobi 110v drill at HD last weekend. It will turn up to 1600 rpm and has a 10 foot cord. $29.99. No more waiting on rechargable drills and no more noisy compressors. Shoulda bought it 3 years ago. HD also sells a no-name 110v drill that'll turn 2600! rpm for $40. Per the HD salesman, it comes from the same factory in South Dakota, (South Dakota, China that is).
Steve
I'd swap the belt and bench grinders on the prior post list.
I just bought a Ryobi 110v drill at HD last weekend. It will turn up to 1600 rpm and has a 10 foot cord. $29.99. No more waiting on rechargable drills and no more noisy compressors. Shoulda bought it 3 years ago. HD also sells a no-name 110v drill that'll turn 2600! rpm for $40. Per the HD salesman, it comes from the same factory in South Dakota, (South Dakota, China that is).
Steve
jmbrwn
Well Known Member
I went with the tool kit from Planetools.com and have been very well satisfied. The only thing lacking, I feel, was not including the back-riveting plate with the kit. Other than that, the kit is very complete, and the DRDT-2 is very nice to work with.
The tools I would regret not having are the pneumatic squeezer and belt sander. I feel I use these the most.
The tools I would regret not having are the pneumatic squeezer and belt sander. I feel I use these the most.
Wow!....You guys are fast....I'm pretty sure I have all the nice to have non airplane specific stuff...band saw,drill press, griders, dremel etc....I guess I 'm looking for the specific needs. I'll check out Planetools...Havent seen them. Thanks for the welcome.....Robb
flytoboat
Well Known Member
Back Riveting Plate
I stopped at a machine shop and bought a 6" x 18" x 1/4" plate for $5.00. Sanded it down for a real smooth finnish.
I stopped at a machine shop and bought a 6" x 18" x 1/4" plate for $5.00. Sanded it down for a real smooth finnish.
Mark Albery
Well Known Member
Tungsten
Get a Tungsten dolly now and ace all those letterbox rivets.
Get a Tungsten dolly now and ace all those letterbox rivets.
N941WR
Legacy Member
Larry,
I just wanted to make it clear you shouldn't grind aluminum as the results can be not so good.
Regarding mounting the SB wheel on a bench grinder, this is true and a number of people have done it but I found it easier to mount the Scotchbright wheel in the drill press as it gave you more room to move parts around the wheel and you can slow it down.
Just one guy's way of doing the same thing.
Tools
Cleaveland Tools sells a good Kit too. It comes with the "Main Squeeze" which is a superior hand squeezer. Have done my whole plane with it, I never felt compelled to shell out the big bucks for a pneumatic. Ditto with the C-frame verses the DRT-2. But if you must have them, you can always have items omitted from the kit.
There are many items that are not in the kits that you will need.
The ones that come to mind are:
- Right-angle drill set
- Dremel tool with heavy duty cutting wheels, rotary cutter and sanding cylinder bits.
- Emery cloth
- Torque wrench (inch-pounds)
- Lots of #30 & #40 bits
- Lots of Sharpie fine tips
- Scotch-brite pads
- Tap set
- Boe-lube
- Snap-on screwdrivers (phillips head)
- Big compressor
- Shop Vac
- Metal files: Vixen, flat, triangular, needle
- Electric engraver
- Rolo-Flair 37 degree Flaring tool
- Good tube bending tool
- Tube cutting tool
Get a Band saw on day one. Throw away the blade it comes with and order a good metal-cutting blade from McMaster-Carr. This will save you tons of time.
Every single aluminum piece you put in the airplane needs to be edge-smoothed. If you can find the right tools to edge-smooth aluminum quickly but effectively, you will also save countless hours.
I have heard great things about the Tungsten bucking bar. If I were doing it over again, I'd get one of those from the start.
When you get to the electrical system, you will need a good wire stripper, terminal crimper, coax crimper, molex crimper, D-Sub crimper.
Cleaveland Tools sells a good Kit too. It comes with the "Main Squeeze" which is a superior hand squeezer. Have done my whole plane with it, I never felt compelled to shell out the big bucks for a pneumatic. Ditto with the C-frame verses the DRT-2. But if you must have them, you can always have items omitted from the kit.
There are many items that are not in the kits that you will need.
The ones that come to mind are:
- Right-angle drill set
- Dremel tool with heavy duty cutting wheels, rotary cutter and sanding cylinder bits.
- Emery cloth
- Torque wrench (inch-pounds)
- Lots of #30 & #40 bits
- Lots of Sharpie fine tips
- Scotch-brite pads
- Tap set
- Boe-lube
- Snap-on screwdrivers (phillips head)
- Big compressor
- Shop Vac
- Metal files: Vixen, flat, triangular, needle
- Electric engraver
- Rolo-Flair 37 degree Flaring tool
- Good tube bending tool
- Tube cutting tool
Get a Band saw on day one. Throw away the blade it comes with and order a good metal-cutting blade from McMaster-Carr. This will save you tons of time.
Every single aluminum piece you put in the airplane needs to be edge-smoothed. If you can find the right tools to edge-smooth aluminum quickly but effectively, you will also save countless hours.
I have heard great things about the Tungsten bucking bar. If I were doing it over again, I'd get one of those from the start.
When you get to the electrical system, you will need a good wire stripper, terminal crimper, coax crimper, molex crimper, D-Sub crimper.
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Birkelbach
Well Known Member
Bench Grinder
I don't understand this. I think you may have the term "bench grinder" mixed up with the different grinding/buffing wheels that can be installed on a "bench grinder." You ALWAYS want to use the proper wheel for the material that you are working whether that material is aluminum, steel, wood or whatever. The scotchbrite wheel that is commonly used for RV building is a wonderful wheel for buffing and grinding aluminum. I couldn't imagine building an aluminum airplane without one.
You'll have mixed results using the gray (aluminum oxide) grinding wheels that normally come on a bench grinder with aluminum because they'll just gum up. If you use any kind of abrasive (even a belt sander) with steel you don't want to use that same tool on critical aluminum parts. This may cause galvanic corrosion in the aluminum part.
There is also that whole thermite reaction issue but if you just keep your bench clean you shouldn't have enough of either material (aluminum or iron oxide) to cause any fireworks.
While I'm up here on top of this soap box let me say that if you have ever seen an abrasive wheel come apart on a bench grinder you'll have no problem wearing the face shield anytime you are using it. BE SAFE!!
I don't understand this. I think you may have the term "bench grinder" mixed up with the different grinding/buffing wheels that can be installed on a "bench grinder." You ALWAYS want to use the proper wheel for the material that you are working whether that material is aluminum, steel, wood or whatever. The scotchbrite wheel that is commonly used for RV building is a wonderful wheel for buffing and grinding aluminum. I couldn't imagine building an aluminum airplane without one.
You'll have mixed results using the gray (aluminum oxide) grinding wheels that normally come on a bench grinder with aluminum because they'll just gum up. If you use any kind of abrasive (even a belt sander) with steel you don't want to use that same tool on critical aluminum parts. This may cause galvanic corrosion in the aluminum part.
There is also that whole thermite reaction issue but if you just keep your bench clean you shouldn't have enough of either material (aluminum or iron oxide) to cause any fireworks.
While I'm up here on top of this soap box let me say that if you have ever seen an abrasive wheel come apart on a bench grinder you'll have no problem wearing the face shield anytime you are using it. BE SAFE!!
Save your money and get a rivet squeezer and not the DRDT dimpler. I pounded all my skins in my c-frame that came with my tool kit. You will be able to resell the squeezer afterwards. I would not predict that a DRDT will hold its value down the road like a rivet squeezer.
My two cents.
-Ron
My two cents.
-Ron
A second for Cleaveland kits
Their website has a very nice function where you pick the large kit, then click on a special link and it puts the entire kit into your "shopping cart" as individual line items. It is then very easy to go back and add/subtract items.
Keep in mind, sometimes the kits from the main tool vendors are oriented towards people who have NO tools on hand. I saved quite a few dollars by eliminating things I could get cheaper locally (i.e. Sharpie pens, tape dispenser) or make (die block is just a piece of wood with holes). That extra money can go for upgrades on the key tools.
Their website has a very nice function where you pick the large kit, then click on a special link and it puts the entire kit into your "shopping cart" as individual line items. It is then very easy to go back and add/subtract items.
Keep in mind, sometimes the kits from the main tool vendors are oriented towards people who have NO tools on hand. I saved quite a few dollars by eliminating things I could get cheaper locally (i.e. Sharpie pens, tape dispenser) or make (die block is just a piece of wood with holes). That extra money can go for upgrades on the key tools.
AntiGravity
Well Known Member
Right angle air drill
I just recently bought a right-angle air drill. Yes, I know, a bit of an extravagence, but MAN I wish I'd had this a long time ago. Sooo, much easier than that ninety-degree angle adapter kit thing from Avery. I got the drill from Avery too, and I second JayP; they are an awesome company to deal with. One email and things arrive at my door in New Zealand as if they were personally flown over on the SR-71 [without the huge cost though, I should add!]
As with the other guys, I also love my air squeezer, DRDT, dremel & tungsten bucking bar.
I just recently bought a right-angle air drill. Yes, I know, a bit of an extravagence, but MAN I wish I'd had this a long time ago. Sooo, much easier than that ninety-degree angle adapter kit thing from Avery. I got the drill from Avery too, and I second JayP; they are an awesome company to deal with. One email and things arrive at my door in New Zealand as if they were personally flown over on the SR-71 [without the huge cost though, I should add!]
As with the other guys, I also love my air squeezer, DRDT, dremel & tungsten bucking bar.
Another $0.02 worth ...
Here's another vote for the Cleaveland "Main Squeeze". I too have had no crying need for a pneumatic squeezer. My other "must have's" (beyond the basics on the Vans list, of course) are the 6" Scotchbrite wheel on a benchgrinder, and both 3/32 and 1/8" Burraways by Cogsdill Tool.
Terry
Here's another vote for the Cleaveland "Main Squeeze". I too have had no crying need for a pneumatic squeezer. My other "must have's" (beyond the basics on the Vans list, of course) are the 6" Scotchbrite wheel on a benchgrinder, and both 3/32 and 1/8" Burraways by Cogsdill Tool.
Terry
Ooh.... I think this thread has lost it's track from the beginning as the original question was "what tools do I really need?". How I read that is that all c-r-a-p and nice-to-have should be dropped out. There has been many good replies already but also some tools I haven't figured how couldn't you (even pretty easily) survive without them:
- Pneumatic cleco tool (Don't you want too strong hands?)
- DRDT dimpler (Just finished dimpling of wings with normal C-frame and that worked just fine for me.)
- Bandsaw (For how many parts you have really used this?! I've used metalsaw, dremel, cutting disc and files instead -- takes more time for sure but compared to other things you have to do that ain't much. Bandsaw also takes a lot of space I don't have yet.)
- #30 and #40 drills can be changed to reamers if you wish then you don't need so many of these
Generally Flybill7's list looks good to start... however all are not needed to complete the elevator for the beginning.
Tools, especially good quality (these is a thread about cheap tools you should read as well) will make things easier. However many tasks can be done other ways but it just takes more time and can be more trickier. I took complete kit (~$2000) and after that I've used +$1000 for different gadgets and still I haven't needed to get compressor etc. as I had it already... For sure few hundreds will needed for tools to complete the plane (I still lack tube bender(s), flaring tool etc.).
- Pneumatic cleco tool (Don't you want too strong hands?)
- DRDT dimpler (Just finished dimpling of wings with normal C-frame and that worked just fine for me.)
- Bandsaw (For how many parts you have really used this?! I've used metalsaw, dremel, cutting disc and files instead -- takes more time for sure but compared to other things you have to do that ain't much. Bandsaw also takes a lot of space I don't have yet.)
- #30 and #40 drills can be changed to reamers if you wish then you don't need so many of these
Generally Flybill7's list looks good to start... however all are not needed to complete the elevator for the beginning.
Tools, especially good quality (these is a thread about cheap tools you should read as well) will make things easier. However many tasks can be done other ways but it just takes more time and can be more trickier. I took complete kit (~$2000) and after that I've used +$1000 for different gadgets and still I haven't needed to get compressor etc. as I had it already... For sure few hundreds will needed for tools to complete the plane (I still lack tube bender(s), flaring tool etc.).
A ton of input!.....I guess my main concern is how the finished dimple and set rivets look. I,ve seen some finished RV's at airports that, no harm to the builder intended, just looked very inconsistent. One rivet is perfectly flat and flush while the one right next to it is crooked(tilted with in the dimple) and so on. There must be a way to form dimples consistently even so rivets set the same also.....What would it be?.....someone mentioned the burraway tool.....how is that working for you?.....I noticed no one mentioned a rivet gun! LOL how funny. Are you guys sqeezing every rivet?....bottom line is I don't mind paying for the best so long as it is the best. You guys are much more informative than any salesman............Robb
oh I forgot to ask.....I built my benches and organized my 3 car garage. I definitely have room to build. I built 5 eaa benches. 2 are 30" x 5' and 3 are 20" x 5'. Mounted my drill press, band saw and vice on one of the 20" ones and disc, beltsander and 2 grinders on another 20" one, all on wheels. Do I have enough length (10 plus feet) for all the long items? I can bolt or clamp them together if need be......Robb
